Dual Nehalem Xeon PSU

[azk]

Hi! I'm building a secondary rendering rig. Got a good deal on ebay and bought myself a set of 2x Xeon x5670 and a supermicro x8dtl-6f mobo. I'm also going to use 24Gb of ddr3, a 1.5tb WD green HDD and an old GTX460 1Gb that's left from another pc. I currently have a spare Corsair CX600 80+ Bronze PSU, which, I guess isn't going to be enough? Though some online PSU calculators give me the load wattage of the system of approx 450W and recommend a PSU of just 550W, that doesn't sound right..
Could anyone recommend a PSU to look out for? I don't want to buy an overkill PSU of 1200W here since I'm not planning to add any more power hungry hardware to the rig. I want a PSU which would be just about powerful enough for this system to run stable. No overclocking obviuosly since it's a server mobo.. A 750W PSU - would that be enough? What exact unit would be recommended?

P.S. supermicro say on their web that I need a PSU with 2x EPS 8pin connectors (for the CPUs).. Would a molex to 8pin EPS work here?
Thanks in advance!

 

[azk]

OK, so I had a look at my local PC hardware stores websites. Looked for 700W+ PSUs that have two EPS 12V connectors. Here's what I found:
Corsair HX750i 80+ Platinum - 166EUR
Be Quiet! POWER ZONE 850W 80+ Bronze - 145EUR
LEPA G800-BM 80+ Gold - 109EUR
Chieftec APS-750CB 80+ Bronze - 101EUR

I'm kind of on a budget, so I would prefer a cheaper unit. However, I wouldn't want to save 50EUR and invest in a crappy piece of hardware.. I don't really know much about PSUs and PSU brands (except for corsair). Had a look at PSU tier list here on TH: the be quiet unit is on tier3, not sure about the LEPA - seems like G500 is also on tier3, so I guess G800 should be tier3 too. Chieftec is not mentioned there but as far as I can recall it is an ok brand? Any suggestions?

 

[azk]

Assuming 750W is enough, which would be a better choice - a new sealed LEPA G800-MB for 109EUR or a used Corsair TX750 90EUR?

 

[bambiboom]

Hi! I'm building a secondary rendering rig. Got a good deal on ebay and bought myself a set of 2x Xeon x5670 and a supermicro x8dtl-6f mobo. I'm also going to use 24Gb of ddr3, a 1.5tb WD green HDD and an old GTX460 1Gb that's left from another pc. I currently have a spare Corsair CX600 80+ Bronze PSU, which, I guess isn't going to be enough? Though some online PSU calculators give me the load wattage of the system of approx 450W and recommend a PSU of just 550W, that doesn't sound right..
Could anyone recommend a PSU to look out for? I don't want to buy an overkill PSU of 1200W here since I'm not planning to add any more power hungry hardware to the rig. I want a PSU which would be just about powerful enough for this system to run stable. No overclocking obviuosly since it's a server mobo.. A 750W PSU - would that be enough? What exact unit would be recommended?

P.S. supermicro say on their web that I need a PSU with 2x EPS 8pin connectors (for the CPUs).. Would a molex to 8pin EPS work here?
Thanks in advance!

azk,

How about a server quality 875W PSU for EUR 150,00?

This sounds expensive, but you also are buying a high quality dual Xeon LGA1366 motherboard, Xeon W5580 4-core @ 3,2 / 3.46GHz, case, Quadro FX 1800, 80GB Nvidia Quadro FX1800 Win10 Pro and 6GB>

Dell Precision T5500 6GB Ram 80GB Nvidia Quadro FX1800 W5580 Win10 Pro > sold for EUR 150,00

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Dell-Precision-T5500-6GB-Ram-80GB-Nvidia-Quadro-FX1800-W5580-Win10-Pro-/131675652481?hash=item1ea87b0181%3Ag%3At0IAAOSwwE5WZFI1&nma=true&si=ZFcc5FNw2UZBGqWMxGJQtVfNUZ8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Buying the Windows 10 alone is EUR 100, plus the case and power supply. And you can subtract quite a few EUR by selling the Supermicro board and the left over parts from the T5500.

Dell Precision workstations are built like servers and ultra-reliable. I've had five used ones and over seven years, none of them ever failed or lost data.

I've found this approach a better alternative to researching, ordering, assembling, configuring, and troubleshooting a system selecting every part, though the upgrading method does take time and effort plus patient shopping for good prices. With a more or less complete used system, it's possible to plug in the graphics card and load applications you can using it a few hours after opening the box. And the system is of higher performance- the 6-cores and designed for reliability.

Add a 6GB/s RAID controller and the results can be very good.

This was my dual Xeon LGA1366 project:

A Dell Precision T5500 purchased for $190 including shipping:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Original): Xeon E5620 quad core @ 2.4 / 2.6 GHz > 6GB DDR3 ECC Reg 1333 > Quadro FX 580 (512MB) > Dell PERC 6/i SAS /SATA controller > Seagate Cheetah 15K 146GB > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1479 / CPU = 4067 / 2D= 520 / 3D= 311 / Mem= 1473 / Disk= 1208]

CPU's: $230 and $170 > (The price dropped between the first and second purchases)
CPU riser board: $70
48GB RAM: $180
GPU: $230
RAID controller: $60
Drives: leftover from other upgrades
_________________

TOTAL= $940 (= EUR 846) The value of the leftover drives was about $120 so the total = about $1060. If I bought a new computer with 2X 6-core Xeons at 3.3/ 3.6GHz, 48GB RAM and a quite good 4GB Quadro, I would guess it could cost well over $8,000.

Results:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011)(Revised) > 2X Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 48GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 / CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3505 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)

And there is a system with 12 cores /24 threads. This system was upgraded to run one CPU and the second was added later plus 24GB more RAM so each CPU has 24GB. The PERC H310 controller ($60 used) changes the disk system from 3GB/s to 6GB/s and the Passmark disk score changed from 1940 to 2649. The CPU rating is the second highest of all 725 T5500's tested. Renderings are very, very fast! Large renderings that took about one hour on my previous Xeon E5-1620 (4-core 3,6 /3.8Ghz) HP z420 now take about 7-8 minutes on the T5500 (Vray for Sketchup). I am just starting to learn Wolfram Mathematica and I expect that and renderings and simulations in Solidworks will be very fast also.

The Precision T7500 has more drive bays, more RAM slots- up to 192GB RAM, and an 1100W PSU:

Dell T7500 PC Workstation Intel Xeon E5630 NVS295 4GB RAM 320GB HDD B-Ware > for sale EUR 350,00 shipping incl. (DE)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-T7500-PC-Workstation-Intel-Xeon-E5630-NVS295-4GB-RAM-320GB-HDD-B-Ware-/252094723798?hash=item3ab20436d6:g:ZSAAAOSwo6lWJI3B

What kind of projects are you doing and with which software?

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz > 32GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> Logitech z2300 > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) > Windows 7 Professional 64 >
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555] [Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

 

[azk]

Hi bambiboom!

Thanks for the detailed reply.
That's actually a great idea to investigate and consider. It's a pity that this didn't come up just a few days ago. I have already bought the mobo and the cpus and prepared the other parts here, so doing it your way would mean ditching all that (except the CPUs) and starting over from square one. Whereas now I only need a PSU to finish this build.
Im really grateful for your insights, those are really great ideas (applied real world working ideas!) and very useful info. So thanks again for that!

Now regarding the PSUs for my build. I've decided not to go with a second hand PSU. Plus, it seems that the Corsair TX750 only has one ATX12v/EPS12v 8pin connector, even though the pdf sheet on the corsair website states 2x650mm. Go figure.. However, while looking for reliable but cheaper alternatives to the corsair and be quiet! units, I came across this: FSP AURUM S 700W. It does have a 4+4 ATX12v and an 8pin EPS12V connector, the reviews are good and I can grab one at a local dealer for only 107EUR.

I almost clicked on buy, but! One question came up.. Is it ok to use 4+4ATX12v for one of the CPUs EPS12v connectors? I mean the mobo has two separate EPS12v connectors, one for each CPU. The PSU comes with 1xEPS(8pin) and 1xATX(4+4pin). I always assumed EPS 8pin = ATX 8pin, but is that really correct?

 

[bambiboom]

Hi bambiboom!

Thanks for the detailed reply.
That's actually a great idea to investigate and consider. It's a pity that this didn't come up just a few days ago. I have already bought the mobo and the cpus and prepared the other parts here, so doing it your way would mean ditching all that (except the CPUs) and starting over from square one. Whereas now I only need a PSU to finish this build.
Im really grateful for your insights, those are really great ideas (applied real world working ideas!) and very useful info. So thanks again for that!

Now regarding the PSUs for my build. I've decided not to go with a second hand PSU. Plus, it seems that the Corsair TX750 only has one ATX12v/EPS12v 8pin connector, even though the pdf sheet on the corsair website states 2x650mm. Go figure.. However, while looking for reliable but cheaper alternatives to the corsair and be quiet! units, I came across this: FSP AURUM S 700W. It does have a 4+4 ATX12v and an 8pin EPS12V connector, the reviews are good and I can grab one at a local dealer for only 107EUR.

I almost clicked on buy, but! One question came up.. Is it ok to use 4+4ATX12v for one of the CPUs EPS12v connectors? I mean the mobo has two separate EPS12v connectors, one for each CPU. The PSU comes with 1xEPS(8pin) and 1xATX(4+4pin). I always assumed EPS 8pin = ATX 8pin, but is that really correct?

azk,

A very good project. Sorry, I assumed that you had purchased only the CPU's and motherboard.

As for the power supply connectors, the EPS 8-pin is used for motherboard connectors as well as to supply supplemental power to GPU's and you're correct, if the supplemental connectors on the PSU are Molex, the answer is Molex 4-pin to EPS 8-pin adapters:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200459&cm_re=Molex_to_EPS_8-pin-_-12-200-459-_-Product

Cheers,

BambiBoom

__________________________

EDIT: After writing this, I realize I forgot to use EUR prices! Another miss, but perhaps the following may be interesting to others doing similar projects.

It's wonderful that the company continue to make motherboards that can use high quality, obsolete processors such as LGA1366 and the v1 and v2 of Xeon E5's.

Probably my next computer is going to be a Supermicro Superworkstation using a pair of Xeon E5-2600 series v2's.

http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/superworkstation.cfm

The useful feature is that the system is ready to simply plug in the CPU's, RAM, GPU, and drives. There are two dual LGA1366 versions:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4U/7046/SYS-7046A-6.cfm
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101241 > $820

There is a version that is set up with hot swap drive bays- perfect for server use.

There is another LGA1366 version, the SYS-7036A-T, a bit smaller, less expensive, lower power PSU:

Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7036A-T Dual LGA1366 Xeon Mid-Tower Workstation Barebone System > $658

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=SY-736AT

These use the X8DA-6 motherboard which is very similar to your X8DTL-6F- the PCIe slots are ordered differently.

I mention the Superworksations as you can buy the Supermicro power supplies used in their LGA1366 workstations

The 665W: > $151

http://www.amazon.com/Selected-665W-power-supply-Supermicro/dp/B007WM98NE/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1453469682&sr=1-1&keywords=supermicro+power+supply+665W

The PWS-865-PQ 865W titanium-rated> $161

http://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-PWS-865-PQ-865W-Super-Quiet/dp/B002I371X6/ref=sr_1_12?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1453468379&sr=1-12&keywords=supermicro+power+supply

EDIT: Sorry, es is nicht so billig in DE:

http://www.amazon.de/Supermicro-PWS-865-PQ-Netzteil/dp/B002I371X6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453470248&sr=8-1&keywords=PWS-865-PQ

> EUR 231

http://www.amazon.de/Supermicro-PWS-865-PQ-Netzteil/dp/B002I371X6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453470248&sr=8-1&keywords=PWS-865-PQ

EDIT: the 665W > EUR 179

http://www.amazon.de/Supermicro-PWS-665-PQ-665W-PS2-PWS/dp/B007KI325U/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1453470934&sr=8-5&keywords=supermicro+665W

> My choice would be the 865W. They're not giving it away at $161- but it's only $11-12 more than the 665W and other sources sell the 865W for $185. As your project is a continuously running server without a redundant power supply, in my view the power supply is the protection for your data and those two $2,000 CPU's, so +$50 seems relatively good insurance over 5 or years of use= $10 /year. The 96% power efficiency might save that amount per year.

While I think the connectors of other PSU's could be sorted using adapters, the Supermicro supply will include the correct ones- running the correct voltages and of appropriate length, possibly saving $50 of fuss.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

[azk]

Hey!

An update on the build. It's working

Had some trouble with the PSU, but it was more of a misunderstanding.. Ordered the FSP Aurum s 700w.. Turned out it did not have the 2x EPS12v as stated on their website. Had to return it without even unboxing it and get a be quiet! unit - the Power Zone 850W.

Also had some minor issues with coolers for the CPUS. Got myself a pair of CoolerMaster Hyper T4's. Had to use "custom" mounting screws as the original ones were a tad too high. But it worked out just fine!

Really happy with the setup. Scores 16 pts on cinebench 11.5 just like it's supposed to. A great workhorse it will be

Quite some mess in the image bellow, photo taken on first start test. Some proper cable management to be applied Quite compact, isnt it?

 

[bambiboom]

Hey!

An update on the build. It's working

Had some trouble with the PSU, but it was more of a misunderstanding.. Ordered the FSP Aurum s 700w.. Turned out it did not have the 2x EPS12v as stated on their website. Had to return it without even unboxing it and get a be quiet! unit - the Power Zone 850W.

Also had some minor issues with coolers for the CPUS. Got myself a pair of CoolerMaster Hyper T4's. Had to use "custom" mounting screws as the original ones were a tad too high. But it worked out just fine!

Really happy with the setup. Scores 16 pts on cinebench 11.5 just like it's supposed to. A great workhorse it will be

Quite some mess in the image bellow, photo taken on first start test. Some proper cable management to be applied Quite compact, isnt it?

azk,

It seems that you had a few items to sort out but the result looks fast standing still- well done.

That big square grille on the upper rear panel could accommodate a large extraction fan as it's more or less in line with the CPU coolers. With dual CPU's the more air movement the better.

What are the drives and GPU you're using?

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

[bambiboom]

Hey!

An update on the build. It's working

Had some trouble with the PSU, but it was more of a misunderstanding.. Ordered the FSP Aurum s 700w.. Turned out it did not have the 2x EPS12v as stated on their website. Had to return it without even unboxing it and get a be quiet! unit - the Power Zone 850W.

Also had some minor issues with coolers for the CPUS. Got myself a pair of CoolerMaster Hyper T4's. Had to use "custom" mounting screws as the original ones were a tad too high. But it worked out just fine!

Really happy with the setup. Scores 16 pts on cinebench 11.5 just like it's supposed to. A great workhorse it will be

Quite some mess in the image bellow, photo taken on first start test. Some proper cable management to be applied Quite compact, isnt it?

azk,

It seems that you had a few items to sort out but the result looks fast standing still- well done.

That big square grille on the upper rear panel could accommodate a large extraction fan as it's more or less in line with the CPU coolers. With dual CPU's the more air movement the better.

What are the drives and GPU you're using?

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

[azk]

Hi!
I did have the very same idea about an extraction fan myself. And I actually found one at home. Well a 12cm xilence fan. It's a cheap fan, not a premium silent unit, but I figured it would work for testing pusposes.. The temps dropped by a few degrees after installing it. The system now idles at around 32c and reaches ~60c after a few minutes of prime95 stress. I think thats just fine. As mentioned before, I'm not planning to (wouldn't even be able if I wanted to) overclock so those temps are okay.
I'm using a GTX460 1GB and a WD 1.5Tb Green HDD.

The WD green is a SATAIII device, however, the mobo only has SATAII ports. It also has SAS2 ports which are 6Gbps and they do support sata devices. Now I know a HDD does not benefit from that, but in case I get a SSD in the future - would connecting it to the SAS2 port give me the 6Gbps transfer rate? In other words would that be the same as connecting it to a SATAIII port?

 

[bambiboom]

Hi!
I did have the very same idea about an extraction fan myself. And I actually found one at home. Well a 12cm xilence fan. It's a cheap fan, not a premium silent unit, but I figured it would work for testing pusposes.. The temps dropped by a few degrees after installing it. The system now idles at around 32c and reaches ~60c after a few minutes of prime95 stress. I think thats just fine. As mentioned before, I'm not planning to (wouldn't even be able if I wanted to) overclock so those temps are okay.
I'm using a GTX460 1GB and a WD 1.5Tb Green HDD.

The WD green is a SATAIII device, however, the mobo only has SATAII ports. It also has SAS2 ports which are 6Gbps and they do support sata devices. Now I know a HDD does not benefit from that, but in case I get a SSD in the future - would connecting it to the SAS2 port give me the 6Gbps transfer rate? In other words would that be the same as connecting it to a SATAIII port?

azk,

The SATAII 3GB/s controller is one of the very few disadvantages from the realm of the LGA1366. When I upgraded the Dell Precision T5500 for the OS /Application drive I used the Samsung 840 250GB SSD that had been in HP z420 No.1 (Xeon E5-1620) which has an SATAIII 6GB/s controller .

The Samsung 840 per formed quite well in HP NO.1, making a Passmark Disk score of 2986. But when used in the SATAII T5500, the Passmark score was only 1940- in percentage a big drop. Apparently, SATAII can achieve the full peroformance of even SATAIII mechanical drives, but it hobbles SSD's.

The solution was to buy a used Dell (LSI) PERC H310 SAS/SATA PCIe controller ($60 Ebahhhh) which was used in Dell PowerEdge R610 servers and was an option for the Precision T7610 -$350 I think it cost. I took awhile to configure it and for some reason, the little *.EVE that loads the driver acted mysteriously and I had to try running it several times.

It worked and only afterwards I learned I'd have to reinstall everything - OS and programs to the 840, the system wouldn't boot from the H310. However, all is well and the T5500 disk score is now 2649. That's not the rate as on the z420, but Passmark scores are comparative and the rapid rise in disk scores with M.2 and NVMe makes it comparatively a lower number.

The moral of the story: consider a 6GB/S PCIe controller. I've seen some low prices recently on LSI 9240-4i and one of those could make your SSD sing for it's supper. If you use SAS drives you can chain 32 drives and have any kind of multi-RAID configuration you'd like.

The other possibility is to buy an M.2 to PCIe adapter, for example:

Addonics M2 PCIe SSD - PCIe 3.0 4-Lane Adapter > $24

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G3435358&cm_re=M2._to_PCIe_adapter-_-9SIA24G3435358-_-Product

There are 1-lane and 4-lane adapters and of course the 4-lane will be the one to use. That; one of the advantages of dual Xeons- you have enough PCIe lanes for RAIF controller, M.e and two GPU's- whatever you need.

However, I can't anyone to answer my question as to how- of if- these adapters work on older systems- perhaps the chipset has to be modern enough that it includes support fro PCIe drives. My guess is that they should as the LSI RAID controllers are PCIe boot devices, but I don't take anything for granted.

So, anyway, there are a couple of alternatives to improve the disk performance. If you do try the M.2 to PCIe, I'd enjoy knowing the results- it seems a bit too good to be true as the adapter is 1/10 the cost of a good RAID controller and NVMe M.2 drives are just astoundingly fast- no RAID 0 required.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 

[azk]

Hi BambiBoom,

Thanks again for yet another detailed reply I will surely consider that if I ever decide to upgrade to the highest possible performance.

However, my question still is: would a SATAIII SSD perform the same on a SAS2 6Gbps port as it would on a SATAIII 6Gbps port? I am asking this, because there are 6 SAS2 6Gbps ports on the SuperMicro mobo in this build. I have actually just connected my WD Green SATAIII HDD to one of those and it's working fine, I'm just wondering what mode it actually operates at - 6Gbps or 3Gbps. There's no way I can test that, since its a mechanical drive. But if it were a SSD, would it run at 6Gbps on a SAS2 port?

 

[bambiboom]

Hi BambiBoom,

Thanks again for yet another detailed reply I will surely consider that if I ever decide to upgrade to the highest possible performance.

However, my question still is: would a SATAIII SSD perform the same on a SAS2 6Gbps port as it would on a SATAIII 6Gbps port? I am asking this, because there are 6 SAS2 6Gbps ports on the SuperMicro mobo in this build. I have actually just connected my WD Green SATAIII HDD to one of those and it's working fine, I'm just wondering what mode it actually operates at - 6Gbps or 3Gbps. There's no way I can test that, since its a mechanical drive. But if it were a SSD, would it run at 6Gbps on a SAS2 port?

azk,

Sorry, I thought I'd answered in my rambling roundabout way: SATA II and SATAIII results will be about the same for a mechanical HD, because they can't really perform up to the potetnial 3GB/s of SATAII. However, good SSD's will show better results on SATAIII . My example was the Samsung 840 that had a disk score of 1940 on SATA II but 2649 on SATA III. I f I had mesaured the WD RE4, I think the score would have been about eh same.

But, anyway, in real world experience, I've found that what feels like a fantastic performing system and a quite slow is a matter of a few seconds for a process that is quite fast already. That is, something that happens in two seconds being four seconds seems s l o w.

Good performance accumulates though on long processes like rendering. It's not disk related but when I changed from rendering on a four-core to a twelve-core system, the rendering time for the same scene went from 1 hour to about 12 minutes.

Cheers

BambiBoom