Dual Xeon Build - Questions and looking for advice/suggestions

[kuakman]

Hello Everyone,

My first post here at tom's hardware. I've been looking for a forum like this one to ask a few questions (and some advice) by experts out there in the community. I'd appreciate your comments because that will help me to make the right decisions since I'm kinda of a noob regarding building my own workstation.

So in simple words, I'm planning to invest money to get a nice and solid workstation for mostly doing 3d animation / rendering (Not for Gaming). Software like, Blender, 3dstudiomax, Maya, Zbrush and Photoshop. And maybe, Substance Designer/Painter. These are just examples to give you guys an idea.

Currently the budget I was planning to invest is around 5k, if it's more than that, I will be willing to pay based on if that really justifies the need.

So I did some research out there and seems like dual xeons will be a perfect fit to what I'm looking for.
Checking the prices out there, here is what I came up with:

• 
  - CPU: 2 X Intel - Xeon E5-2630 V4 2.2GHz 10-Core
  - Motherboard: Supermicro - MBD-X10DAX EATX Dual-CPU LGA2011-3
  - Memory: 4 X Kingston - ValueRAM 16GB Registered DDR4-2133
  - Cooling: 2 X Corsair - H80i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (One per each CPU)
  - GPU: MSI - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB GAMING X
  - CHASIS: Thermaltake - Suppressor F51 (Windowed) ATX (based on the specs supports EATX)
  - Power Supply: Corsair - HX Platinum 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX
  - Storage:
  - 1 X Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive
  - 1 X Intel - 545s 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

Starting with the xeons, I tought that a Xeon 2630 v4 relation power vs cost will be a good match for my budget, but I'm open for alternatives.

One of the main questions I have is the case... considering that I'm getting the Supermicro which seems to be a "server" motherboard based on dimensions, I'm gonna need a EATX based chasis, but I also need to consider that heatsinks + the corsair H80i water coolers and everything will fit in the case.
So my first bet was the Thermaltake - Suppresor F51 which seems that it supports EATX (12' x 13') motherboards. (Good price) but I have some doubts about it.
Do you guys have any suggestions or have you ever have experience to fit all these components on case with dimensions that will support all of this?

Regarding the cooling system, (because I've never own a xeon processor before) and reading articles about it, it seems that water cooling based are not technically necessary, I read that some people can use the classic air cooling fans. what do you guys think? I have seen other models from corsair like the H115i which seems to be better, but I'm concern about the size or compatibility with the processors.
But at the same time, I wouldn't mind to spend extra money to get an great cooling water-based system to keep the temperatures down as much as possible, and expect to get better performance and throughput from the CPUs.

Another question that pops up in my head is Memory... I want to start with 64 GBs (4 modules DDR4 2133) which the super micro seems to support based on the specs. The other aspect is that the memory modules should support ECC. I heard that some people have mentioned in some forums that it's highly recommended to distribute evenly equitable across the CPUs. This is: 32GB per processor, otherwise you will hit some performance degradation by the xeons. Not sure if this is part of a myth or not. Anyways, 64 GBs just to start and keep expanding from there if I need to. Any suggestions?

And the last question is about the GPU... I know some people will say "hmmm - a 11GB 1080TI may be too much for a non-gaming rig...", I can probably go with something cheaper like a GeForce 970 and save a few bucks and use it for a better chasis. Suggestions about this?
Also, considering I already have 2 Monitors + a Wacom Cintiq 22" to plug into this new rig.

Regardless to say while doing research, I felt in love with the In-Win D-frame 2.0, but spending 1.5k in a fancy chasis seems like too much. But I thought about it. Not sure if the components will fit on this one though.

Alright, Thanks to the community!
Sincerely, I will appreciate your comments.
Thank you!

 

[kuakman]

Agreed that hobbyist may prefer wc for esthetics reasons if they have the money and they want to pay for it. In the other hand, I consider that "Air" is more of an "insulator" rather than it is a conductor of heat. While water cooling seem more risky (because of possible leaks as you mentioned), liquid and solid materials generally speaking, are better conductors of heat to the sole goal of dissipating it. So, water coolers usually are more efficient at that.

Except that liquid coolers still ultimately need to dissipate their heat using air. The water carries heat away from the CPU and to the radiator, but then then you're still relying on fans to transfer that heat from the radiator to the air. Any heat not transferred into the air remains in the water getting pumped back to the CPU. So really, it's still technically air cooling.

The water's main purpose is to allow the radiator to be located somewhere away from the CPU. From there, it can either draw cooler air in from outside the case and dump the warmed air inside, or draw air from inside the case, and push the warmed air outside, though really, a tower cooler setup with good airflow could perform similar in many cases. It is possible for some liquid coolers to incorporate larger three-fan radiators though, which can potentially cool better than a tower cooler due to having more surface area and fans.

One other thing the water in a liquid cooler can do is act as a buffer for the heat. The CPU temperature will tend to rise more slowly, since it has to warm not only the radiator, but also the water. So for short bursts of activity, you'll likely see lower temperatures. However, on sustained loads, eventually the water temperature will rise, and once that happens, the temperatures will tend to be similar to a tower cooler with a comparably-sized radiator and fans. And once the load is removed, it will take longer for a liquid cooler to cool back down compared to a tower cooler, since it needs to cool all that warmed water as well, and can only do so as fast as the radiator can cool it. The size of this buffer can be increased by incorporating a reservoir to hold additional water, but most all-in-ones don't contain a separate reservoir, or a particularly large amount of water.

Thanks for putting this explanation, that helps a lot to understand water cooling systems vs air cooling.
Anyways, conclusion I will go with Air Coolers as @k1114 suggested 240mm or 280mm. I will be looking for those.

Other than that, the new socket 3467 seems reasonable instead of the old architecture. So, for now the more accessible xeon is the Silver 4114. if I go with the next model up Silver 4116, I will get more cores but at the same time, stretching my budget out of the 5k that I initially had in mind to potentially, $5.2 - 5.5k.

There is still one more alternative to decide, and this question was about getting a dual mobo, but buying a single physical cpu Xeon Gold 5120 - 14 cores (28 Threads) on 2.2 GHZ at $1585.99 and go with that until I ready to get a second one. Not sure if that's possible.

Thanks!

 

[k1114]

I never said air cooling is a better than water cooling. One of the reasons, enthusiast (ocing), wouldn't make sense if water was worse. I choose my words carefully and there is no interpreting or reading in between the lines needed. If you want to re-read what I typed than you'll see what I said is logical. I know I may not go in depth in everything but it's really off topic if you don't need it plus there is a ton of info on these subjects that books are literally written. But I have no issue diving deeper if that is what's wanted. We're here to help in anything hardware/software related.

240m and 280mm refers rad sizes. I said "240 or 280mm rads are the only aios even worth looking at." I specifically say rads and also aios. Maybe you are lacking sleep but I don't get why things keep getting mixed up as it's not even an interpretation issue. You won't even find cpu fans that big. Rad sizes are also slightly different; 2x 120mm (fans) = 240mm rad. 2x 140mm = 280mm rad. 120mm is still just a single 120mm as these are common fan sizes.

The xeons aren't the best value though. Silver 4114 for $700 is less performance than i7-7820X for $600. Also once you start throwing large amounts of money at hardware, a render farm is cheaper, even if just a few nodes. Or you could look into renting farm time. Example; you mention $5k just for 10 cores and a 1080ti. You can find deals like this $700 for i7 7700 and rx 480. https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-Desktop-i7-7700-GX-785-UR17/dp/B01N9VCGN8/ Buy 5 of those and that's a whole other level of performance with a total of 20 cores and 5x gpus. That's $3.5k instead of $5k because in many cases, you'd want a single slightly better workstation to work on (which still needs to be added to that total). Plus you may want to use some extra money to save space by gutting them and putting them on racks.

That's more options and complications but if we are giving suggestions that end up spending your money, it should be in the best way possible and we have to cover all the options.

 

[samer.forums]

You can use one CPU on dual CPU motherboards without any problems if you want to upgrade later , the only thing you will lose is some slots for some slots will be connected to the second CPU lanes.

 

[Daniel_5250]

Have you considered the i9-7980XE? It's about the price of both Xeons and is only 2 less cores...but it can reach 4.2GHz stock and can be overclocked (probably not by much though with all them cores!) And its on a more consumer platform which i'd see as a positive

Just my two cents!

Cheers

 

[KittyFish62]

Something like that though will run really hot, as it has a high clock speed.

 

[Daniel_5250]

It will, but nothing a good AIO water cooler cant handle

 

[mega maniac]

It will, but nothing a good AIO water cooler cant handle

This just isn't true of the latest i9 CPUs. If you want to take the 7960/7980 up to 4Ghz you either need an open loop cooling system or you need to have your CPU delidded and the thermal compound between the lid and die upgraded and they both draw upwards of 500w of power.

 

[Daniel_5250]

It will, but nothing a good AIO water cooler cant handle

This just isn't true of the latest i9 CPUs. If you want to take the 7960/7980 up to 4Ghz you either need an open loop cooling system or you need to have your CPU delidded and the thermal compound between the lid and die upgraded and they both draw upwards of 500w of power.

We're on a 5K budget here, open loop cooling is perfectly feasible. And the Xeon Kuakman stated only turbos to 2.8GHz so anything above that is a bonus.

With a cooler like the kelvin s36 (360mm) you'd get a pretty decent clock out of it