Dump 9x compatibility or dump this coder?

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Hello people,
I am the boss of a small software house. A very skilled
programmer offered us a product (we've still to work on
the graphics and music though) which is indeed very, very
cool (the guy really knows how to program!), BUT his code
WILL NOT WORK on Windows 95, 98 & ME, and he totally refuses
to make it compatible, he says there are a lot of technical
reasons why this is not possible (or worth).

With the advent of Windows XP, it's pretty clear that the
9x technology is doomed to extinction. But, is it ALREADY
possible to put a big label like this on the box:

The game is compatible with Windows 2000, XP and 2003.
WARNING!!
The game is *NOT* compatible with Windows 95, 98 and ME.

without affecting sales too much?

While I'd certainly love to get a broader market, this
guy may have good reasons to dump 9x compatibility
because his code is truly impressive. I'm not sure we
can find another coder in town that can impress us as
much.

To sum it all.. what I'm asking you is your advice for
my dilemma: dump 9x compatibility or dump this coder?

Thanks a lot!

Antonio Tambone
CEO of Gaming Delight
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I am very slow to update some of my machines, but even I have dumped
98SE and ME. 98SE never worked well with USB (at least on my systems)
and ME slowly kills itself (sometimes quickly) and the defrag/disk
check NEVER worked on it. It is time to kill these OS.

Whether it will kill sales depends on the target market of the game. If
it is a Tetris clone or 2d board game destined for debut at $25
retail/$19.99 street, yes it will kill sales. If it is a $49.99 3D
action game like a racetrack or first person shooter, look at the H/W
and S/W requirements for Doom 3 and HL2, yes you can run them on slower
H/W but you don't want to. For these kinds of games, gamers expect
higher end requirements.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:29:29 GMT, "A.T." <nospam@nospam.it> wrote:

>Hello people,
>I am the boss of a small software house. A very skilled
>programmer offered us a product (we've still to work on
>the graphics and music though) which is indeed very, very
>cool (the guy really knows how to program!), BUT his code
>WILL NOT WORK on Windows 95, 98 & ME, and he totally refuses
>to make it compatible, he says there are a lot of technical
>reasons why this is not possible (or worth).

Check your statement of scope for the project you are working on. If you
must have the product run under Windows 95-ME, then you are basically stuck
with that decision. If it's merely a desirable requirement, then you need
to use your judgement.

Also, Windows 98/ME compatability shouldn't be that difficult, but there
are some old system function calls that do not operate correctly (e.g.
checking the amount of Free Disk space gives unexpected values if you have
more than 2GB.) Windows 98 isn't really known to be as scalable, such as
being unable to support more than 30000 Window Handles.

>To sum it all.. what I'm asking you is your advice for
>my dilemma: dump 9x compatibility or dump this coder?

If you want to truly make an informed decision, you have to know why the
code does not operate as expected under Windows 95-ME by searching through
and debugging the code.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> The game is *NOT* compatible with Windows 95, 98 and ME.


95, 98 and ME are dead, don't bother with making anything for these
anymore.

Upgrade or perish.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:29:29 GMT, "A.T." <nospam@nospam.it> wrote:

>With the advent of Windows XP, it's pretty clear that the
>9x technology is doomed to extinction. But, is it ALREADY
>possible to put a big label like this on the box:
>
>The game is compatible with Windows 2000, XP and 2003.
>WARNING!!
>The game is *NOT* compatible with Windows 95, 98 and ME.
>
>without affecting sales too much?

This might help you:
http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html

From the discussions we have had on here in the past, my guess would
be that it wouldn't have a major impact on sales, though there will be
vocal minority that expect Win9x to be supported forever.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, A.T. wrote:

> The game is compatible with Windows 2000, XP and 2003.
> WARNING!!
> The game is *NOT* compatible with Windows 95, 98 and ME.

I think the first two big games that claimed the above (although later on
hacks were made for both to run them with 9x) were Thief 3 and Doom 3. At
least the sales of the latter one didn't suffer much as far as I know 😉.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I would have thought that if the thing uses DirectX or OpenGL and is a Win32
application then any incompatibilities with the Windows 95 family should be
fairly trivial.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"One Punch Mickey" <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZZPJd.46371$Z14.28223@news.indigo.ie...
> I would have thought that if the thing uses DirectX or OpenGL and is a
Win32
> application then any incompatibilities with the Windows 95 family should
be
> fairly trivial.

Many drivers and the latest versions of DirectX are not supported on Windows
9x. Some are but that is fading fast.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thinking about this ...

One one level the guy is right, the 9x kernel should be killed now.

On another level, if you employ him then you're the boss. He should make it
run on a C64 if you tell him to.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, "A.T." wrote:

> Hello people,
> I am the boss of a small software house. A very skilled
> programmer offered us a product (we've still to work on
> the graphics and music though) which is indeed very, very
> cool (the guy really knows how to program!), BUT his code
> WILL NOT WORK on Windows 95, 98 & ME, and he totally refuses
> to make it compatible, he says there are a lot of technical
> reasons why this is not possible (or worth).
>
> With the advent of Windows XP, it's pretty clear that the
> 9x technology is doomed to extinction. But, is it ALREADY
> possible to put a big label like this on the box:
>
> The game is compatible with Windows 2000, XP and 2003.
> WARNING!!
> The game is *NOT* compatible with Windows 95, 98 and ME.
>
> without affecting sales too much?
>
> While I'd certainly love to get a broader market, this
> guy may have good reasons to dump 9x compatibility
> because his code is truly impressive. I'm not sure we
> can find another coder in town that can impress us as
> much.
>
> To sum it all.. what I'm asking you is your advice for
> my dilemma: dump 9x compatibility or dump this coder?
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> Antonio Tambone
> CEO of Gaming Delight

don't ever dump good talent! cause its good talent that matters
trust him when he says it can not be win9x compatible
and take a chance and released it!
quality and innovative pc games are very needed!
you will probably have less sales cause of no win9x support but
if the game is really good it could probably overcome that

btw, as a ceo of a game publisher don't ever publish a game of yours
using steam!
publishing a game using steam is a gazillion times worse than taking
away win9x compatibility!
please keep all your games free of steam!
as a pc game publisher say NO to steam!

will be waiting for you to announce the game's release in this group
good luck and best of wishes for your business

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, Andrew wrote:

<snip disgusting valve propaganda>

everything for you is an excuse to do the usual dirty disgusting
valve propaganda!
i can't understand how can this group tolerate your daily and
non-stopping valve FREE ADVERTISEMENT!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:57:28 -0000, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I would have thought that if the thing uses DirectX or OpenGL and is a Win32
>application then any incompatibilities with the Windows 95 family should be
>fairly trivial.

Windows 95 doesn't have the a run-time library for DirectX 8.1 or later.
It's only available in 98+.

However, OpenGL can work equally in Windows 95, provided that the video
card manufacturers still release drivers for that platform.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:10vfrspb4mrh1f9@news.supernews.com...

> Many drivers and the latest versions of DirectX are not supported on
Windows
> 9x. Some are but that is fading fast.

What is the latest version of directx now? I have 9.0c installed on my video
capture machine along with win98se. Is there a later version of directx out
already?
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

A.T. wrote:
> To sum it all.. what I'm asking you is your advice for
> my dilemma: dump 9x compatibility or dump this coder?

What kind of game is it? If it's a fast-paced FPS that needs high
frame-rates and a fast graphics card, yes, you might as well forget 9x:
any machine capable of running it at a decent speed will probably have
Win2k or better. But be ready to handle returns from people who wanted
to run it on the PIII-300 with a Voodoo-2 and didn't read the label.

If it's a side-scrolling shoot-em-up or an isometric RTS game, then you
probably still have a lot of potential buyers running old operating
systems and dumping 9x would be a bad idea.

Mark
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:
> I think the first two big games that claimed the above (although
later on
> hacks were made for both to run them with 9x) were Thief 3 and Doom
3. At
> least the sales of the latter one didn't suffer much as far as I know
😉.

As far as I remember, Doom 3 will run on Win98 if you hack the config
files, it's just not officially supported.

Mark
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

You really had me going there! I was actually thinking for a minute that you
would manage to get a whole post in without managing to wriggle a swipe at
Steam into it!
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:39:12 -0600, "john graesser" <graesser@tca.net>
wrote:

>
>"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
>news:10vfrspb4mrh1f9@news.supernews.com...
>
>> Many drivers and the latest versions of DirectX are not supported on
>Windows
>> 9x. Some are but that is fading fast.
>
>What is the latest version of directx now? I have 9.0c installed on my video
>capture machine along with win98se. Is there a later version of directx out
>already?

There isn't a newer version, but don't be suprised if such a version won't
work for Win98. Win98 would have been in the "extended" product life-cycle
at this time, if it weren't for the last-minute decision based on corporate
deployment.

Of course, as long as WinME is still around, there's probably reason to
support Win98 along with it. Even then, WinME is probably going to be put
to rest within a year or so.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"john graesser" <graesser@tca.net> wrote in message
news:10vjnfs8jr4sn44@corp.supernews.com...
> > Many drivers and the latest versions of DirectX are not supported on
> Windows
> > 9x. Some are but that is fading fast.
>
> What is the latest version of directx now? I have 9.0c installed on my
video
> capture machine along with win98se. Is there a later version of directx
out
> already?

9.0c is latest. Turns out it does actually support Windows 98 (but not 95).
I'd bet that it will be the last.
 
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