dvd_lab

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I've seen DVDlab suggested here often to people looking for dvd
authoring tools.
I just downloaded it and discovered it cannot import *.avi files.
I'm pretty green with this but it seems most editing software creates
*.avi files as output. I know Premiere Pro does as does canopus LE.

I suspect I'm missing some basic understanding here but wouldn't a
tool spec'ed to author dvds be wise to handle *.avi output from NLE
editors? Is there some important reason why this is not the case with
DVD_lab?

They do have a TMPgenc based conversion tool for trial download too,
so I've gotten it and I guess will convert my *.avi to play with.

Other DVD authoring tools like windDVD and NERO import *.avi without a
problem. I guess I should take this up with DVDlab staff, but first
wanted to know if not being *.avi capable is like that for good
reason.
 
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On Mon 11 Oct 2004 02:52:19a, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:

> I've seen DVDlab suggested here often to people looking for dvd
> authoring tools.
> I just downloaded it and discovered it cannot import *.avi files.
> I'm pretty green with this but it seems most editing software creates
> *.avi files as output. I know Premiere Pro does as does canopus LE.
>
> I suspect I'm missing some basic understanding here but wouldn't a
> tool spec'ed to author dvds be wise to handle *.avi output from NLE
> editors? Is there some important reason why this is not the case with
> DVD_lab?

Depends on what you think is important. DVD-lab imports files suitable for
putting on to a DVD, that means your video will need to be encoded to
MPEG2 and your audio to AC3, PCM, DTS etc. The lack of a *quality* MPEG
encoder keeps the price down, especially when most decent NLEs these days
have the option to export the MPEG for you, and can do a good job.
 
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Bob Stedenko <me@privacy.net> writes:

>> I suspect I'm missing some basic understanding here but wouldn't a
>> tool spec'ed to author dvds be wise to handle *.avi output from NLE
>> editors? Is there some important reason why this is not the case with
>> DVD_lab?
>
> Depends on what you think is important. DVD-lab imports files suitable for
> putting on to a DVD, that means your video will need to be encoded to
> MPEG2 and your audio to AC3, PCM, DTS etc. The lack of a *quality* MPEG
> encoder keeps the price down, especially when most decent NLEs these days
> have the option to export the MPEG for you, and can do a good job.

I suppose that would always be true. But doesn't it mean one must
render the raw source twice? First convert *.avi to .mpg then
rerender whatever dvd-lab adds to it?
 

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No, because DVD Lab will not have to take your AVI and Encode it first into
MPG and then into DVD format, it will work at a much quicker pace. Encoding
and Authoring are two different steps.

Since you can usually find a better Mpg encoder than what is included in the
authoring program, this seems a worthwhile approach. Also, people will
frequently recommend that you encode your files into elemental streams of
seperate video and audio for the best quality and compatibility. DVD Lab
will accept elemental streams and recombine them.


"Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:uwtxxzcig.fsf@newsguy.com...
> Bob Stedenko <me@privacy.net> writes:
>
> >> I suspect I'm missing some basic understanding here but wouldn't a
> >> tool spec'ed to author dvds be wise to handle *.avi output from NLE
> >> editors? Is there some important reason why this is not the case with
> >> DVD_lab?
> >
> > Depends on what you think is important. DVD-lab imports files suitable
for
> > putting on to a DVD, that means your video will need to be encoded to
> > MPEG2 and your audio to AC3, PCM, DTS etc. The lack of a *quality* MPEG
> > encoder keeps the price down, especially when most decent NLEs these
days
> > have the option to export the MPEG for you, and can do a good job.
>
> I suppose that would always be true. But doesn't it mean one must
> render the raw source twice? First convert *.avi to .mpg then
> rerender whatever dvd-lab adds to it?
 
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"RS" <idontthinkso@mail.com> writes:

> No, because DVD Lab will not have to take your AVI and Encode it first into
> MPG and then into DVD format, it will work at a much quicker pace. Encoding
> and Authoring are two different steps.
>

But that is what I said. It will be done twice, once from *.avi to
mpg (pre dvd-lab) and then again to dvd from dvd-lab. Where other
authoring tools import the avi, output the dvd. Skipping the
conversion step or combining it into output conversion.
 
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Bob Stedenko <me@privacy.net> writes:

>>> Depends on what you think is important. DVD-lab imports files
>>> suitable for putting on to a DVD, that means your video will need to
>>> be encoded to MPEG2 and your audio to AC3, PCM, DTS etc. The lack of
>>> a *quality* MPEG encoder keeps the price down, especially when most
>>> decent NLEs these days have the option to export the MPEG for you,
>>> and can do a good job.
>>
>> I suppose that would always be true. But doesn't it mean one must
>> render the raw source twice? First convert *.avi to .mpg then
>> rerender whatever dvd-lab adds to it?
>
> In a way, yes, but not really. The MPEG is multiplexed with the various
> audio files, subtitles etc into VOB files, but it doesn't get re-rendered.

Ok, I'm not too up on what authoring tools actually do. But assuming
I add chapter, menus etc with dvd-lab. Now what happens when dvd-lab
outputs this to a DVD.. The parent mpg is left untouched you say
right? So what does actually happen there? How are the changes inserted?
 
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On Mon 11 Oct 2004 01:04:55p, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:

> Bob Stedenko <me@privacy.net> writes:
>
>>> I suspect I'm missing some basic understanding here but wouldn't a
>>> tool spec'ed to author dvds be wise to handle *.avi output from NLE
>>> editors? Is there some important reason why this is not the case
>>> with DVD_lab?
>>
>> Depends on what you think is important. DVD-lab imports files
>> suitable for putting on to a DVD, that means your video will need to
>> be encoded to MPEG2 and your audio to AC3, PCM, DTS etc. The lack of
>> a *quality* MPEG encoder keeps the price down, especially when most
>> decent NLEs these days have the option to export the MPEG for you,
>> and can do a good job.
>
> I suppose that would always be true. But doesn't it mean one must
> render the raw source twice? First convert *.avi to .mpg then
> rerender whatever dvd-lab adds to it?

In a way, yes, but not really. The MPEG is multiplexed with the various
audio files, subtitles etc into VOB files, but it doesn't get re-rendered.
One of the great things about DVD-lab is that it does not mess with your
MPEGs like other programs do. There's no pointless transcoding, providing
that your MPEG is DVD compliant. The output from the Mainconcept encoder
is compliant (on my system at least.)
 
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On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:47:18 -0500, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com>
wrote:

>It will be done twice, once from *.avi to
>mpg (pre dvd-lab) and then again to dvd from dvd-lab. Where other
>authoring tools import the avi, output the dvd. Skipping the
>conversion step or combining it into output conversion.

Two steps are needed: converting to mpeg, then making the mpegs into a
DVD structure. Some programs shall do both steps in sequence, looking
as if they were just 1. But many people here prefer to use their
program of choice for step 1, then their program of choice for step 2.
That way you can choose the best tool for each task. Do-it-all
programs can hardly be the best tool for any of them.
 
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On Mon 11 Oct 2004 05:51:34p, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:

> Ok, I'm not too up on what authoring tools actually do. But assuming
> I add chapter, menus etc with dvd-lab. Now what happens when dvd-lab
> outputs this to a DVD..

None of this is specific to DVD-lab though. If you're that interested in
the format of the DVD, there's plenty of information available via google.
Personally I'm not *that* interested. :)

> The parent mpg is left untouched you say right?

Correct, as far as I know - I'm no expert.

> So what does actually happen there? How are the changes inserted?

You're not *inserting* anything. A chapter point is simply a reference to
a specific frame number or timecode. If you jump to chapter x, the DVD
holds information on what the timecode is, and the player jumps to that
timecode. The movie file isn't altered.

A menu is just an image, with some stuff on top of it like titles or
thumbnails. None of this has any bearing on the MPEG of your movie. It
just all gets packaged together into different blobs of data that the DVD
player knows about and can reference.

Of course, some DVD authoring programs do actually transcode your MPEG
file, resulting in degredation of the movie, but that's why I don't use
them.
 
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Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<m3d5zpcicp.fsf@newsguy.com>...
> "RS" <idontthinkso@mail.com> writes:
>
> > No, because DVD Lab will not have to take your AVI and Encode it first into
> > MPG and then into DVD format, it will work at a much quicker pace. Encoding
> > and Authoring are two different steps.
> >
>
> But that is what I said. It will be done twice, once from *.avi to
> mpg (pre dvd-lab) and then again to dvd from dvd-lab.


mpeg2 > VOB/DVD is not really encoding at all.

Think of it more as a lossless type of conversion. Not sure on the
actual stats, but I'm pretty sure this step is considerably faster
than encoding, too.



STRATEGY
 

rs

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It may 'look' like a step was skipped, but it really wasen't. Avi to Mpg
simply must be encoded again, and that that is a function of the encoder.
Some are very good, some are so-so.



"Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:m3d5zpcicp.fsf@newsguy.com...
> "RS" <idontthinkso@mail.com> writes:
>
> > No, because DVD Lab will not have to take your AVI and Encode it first
into
> > MPG and then into DVD format, it will work at a much quicker pace.
Encoding
> > and Authoring are two different steps.
> >
>
> But that is what I said. It will be done twice, once from *.avi to
> mpg (pre dvd-lab) and then again to dvd from dvd-lab. Where other
> authoring tools import the avi, output the dvd. Skipping the
> conversion step or combining it into output conversion.
 

rs

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And that in fact is one of the better points of DVDlab. After you spend good
money to acquire your codec's and spend your time to figure out how to tweak
your settings to get the very best quality and bitrate vs. file size, its a
shame to have to feed it into a program that then can potentially degrade
that final output.

I can spit an AC3 audio file out of Vegas and I can also frameserve the
video stream to Tmpgenc which gives me a great deal of control and will
output a video stream for me. As I have two processors and Tmpgenc can
utilize both of them, I can encode a 90 minute video in about 5 hours at
best quality.

Not all authoring programs will accept these separate video and audio files
(called elemental streams). DVDlab will because its function is just to
build the DVD structure. Splitting the sound in a separate AC3 file, in
addition to better quality, is also a much smaller file, allowing you to
allocate more room for video quality.

Ok, off soapbox time.....

However, not everone wants to monkey about and play video geek like I do.
There is a substantial population of users who just want kid vids on the DVD
for grandma and stuff like that. There is usually a necessary tradeoff
between ease of use and quality and speed, and for many people, this is the
appropriate route to take. Something with templates and wizards and in the
50-75 dollar range. People often get the lite version of a program like this
when they buy a DVD drive.


"Bob Stedenko" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95808B17BA42Fnospamprivacynet@194.72.6.106...
> On Mon 11 Oct 2004 05:51:34p, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok, I'm not too up on what authoring tools actually do. But assuming
> > I add chapter, menus etc with dvd-lab. Now what happens when dvd-lab
> > outputs this to a DVD..
>
> None of this is specific to DVD-lab though. If you're that interested in
> the format of the DVD, there's plenty of information available via google.
> Personally I'm not *that* interested. :)
>
> > The parent mpg is left untouched you say right?
>
> Correct, as far as I know - I'm no expert.
>
> > So what does actually happen there? How are the changes inserted?
>
> You're not *inserting* anything. A chapter point is simply a reference to
> a specific frame number or timecode. If you jump to chapter x, the DVD
> holds information on what the timecode is, and the player jumps to that
> timecode. The movie file isn't altered.
>
> A menu is just an image, with some stuff on top of it like titles or
> thumbnails. None of this has any bearing on the MPEG of your movie. It
> just all gets packaged together into different blobs of data that the DVD
> player knows about and can reference.
>
> Of course, some DVD authoring programs do actually transcode your MPEG
> file, resulting in degredation of the movie, but that's why I don't use
> them.