News Elon Musk’s Nvidia-powered Colossus supercomputer faces pollution allegations from under‐reported power generators

[Admin]

xAI's Colossus supercomputer at Memphis, Tennessee, is accused of spewing excess pollution to get the power it needs to run all its GPUs.

Elon Musk’s Nvidia-powered Colossus supercomputer faces pollution allegations from under‐reported power generators : Read more

 

[jp7189]

I did a little poking around and (aside from not running the datacenter at all), the generators and batteries are actually them being nice to the neighbors in my opinion. The workload of AI training has huge power fluctuations as the scheduled tasks spin up various clusters. Sometimes massive compute is used and sometimes there is low power idle time. It would absolutely wreck the power grid to deal with that, so xai installed tons of tesla energy batteries and charges the off the generators. The setup smooths out the fluctuations demanded of the power grid.

 

[ezst036]

This seems like the kind of thing that an Ars Technica journalist could selectively report.

Yes, Elon has made himself a big public enemy, that still doesn't excuse selective reporting, which is actually editorializing in disguise as news.

The use of these generators is not unknown, but persons who tote the line will not be attacked under the guise of honest reporting. The Elon of 15 years ago got away with stuff like this and was held up by many of the same outlets now in outrage.

 

[SomeoneElse23]

This seems like the kind of thing that an Ars Technica journalist could selectively report.

Yes, Elon has made himself a big public enemy, that still doesn't excuse selective reporting, which is actually editorializing in disguise as news.

The use of these generators is not unknown, but persons who tote the line will not be attacked under the guise of honest reporting. The Elon of 15 years ago got away with stuff like this and was held up by many of the same outlets now in outrage.

Not a public enemy, but an enemy of a certain group of haters who are incapable of seeing good in those they are told are the enemy.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

Do tell, what are the emissions products and numbers from these natural gas generators vs, say, a natural gas power plant, like the 1100MW natural gas power plant in Memphis?

 

[YSCCC]

Somehow I've always been skeptical for the various companies burning away crazy amount of fuel for AI training only for the LLM to use chance calculations to look right in chat type use..

 

[jlake3]

Do tell, what are the emissions products and numbers from these natural gas generators vs, say, a natural gas power plant, like the 1100MW natural gas power plant in Memphis?

Someone poked around, and according to GE the turbines used in the TVA's Allen Combined Cycle Plant about a mile down the road should achieve 63.6% efficiency. Portable units like the ones deployed by xAI typically operate around 35% efficient.

Didn’t see numbers on specific emissions products, but portable generators are subject to more lax standards on a per-unit basis than large installations.

 

[waltc3]

So far, no laws are being violated, and this is of course just another thinly veiled attack on Musk by the sad people who thought he was wonderful until he revealed his personal political preferences. Used to be in the country that we all respected each other even though we may disagree politically--it was simply no big deal. That seems to have gone by the wayside, unfortunately.

 

[Notton]

Let's see... hyperloop broke, cybertruck recalls, spacex exploding, twitter losing users...
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.

 

[SpicyLlama]

Do tell, what are the emissions products and numbers from these natural gas generators vs, say, a natural gas power plant, like the 1100MW natural gas power plant in Memphis?

It’s a combined-cycle steam/gas generation plant with only 3 gas fired units, not 15-30 raw gas turbines of questionable origin. Most of that 1100 MW is coming from steam turbines, not to mention an additional 1 MW of solar. Google is your friend.

 

[SpicyLlama]

So far, no laws are being violated, and this is of course just another thinly veiled attack on Musk by the sad people who thought he was wonderful until he revealed his personal political preferences. Used to be in the country that we all respected each other even though we may disagree politically--it was simply no big deal. That seems to have gone by the wayside, unfortunately.

Those who want respect, should give respect.

 

[blppt]

So far, no laws are being violated, and this is of course just another thinly veiled attack on Musk by the sad people who thought he was wonderful until he revealed his personal political preferences.

If you haven't noticed a wild change in his behavior over the past decade, you haven't been paying attention---there's something health wise clearly wrong with him now versus a decade ago---might be the Ketamine dosing, might be something else, but the guy you saw and see now stumbling through public appearance and having trouble forming sentences is a far cry from Elon 2015. Politics aside.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

It’s a combined-cycle steam/gas generation plant with only 3 gas fired units, not 15-30 raw gas turbines of questionable origin. Most of that 1100 MW is coming from steam turbines, not to mention an additional 1 MW of solar. Google is your friend.

And that doesn't answer the question of the emission levels and products of these mobile turbines vs the already present power plant. Jowi Morales wrote in the article

Residents are complaining because xAI uses multiple methane gas turbines to cover the shortfall in its electrical needs. They told Ars Technica that it “likely make xAI the largest emitter of smog-forming” pollution...

So what are the actual figures of the supposed "smog-forming pollution" of the generators vs the established power plant? Are they really the largest emitter of smog forming pollution, or is, say, FedEx from all the FedEx planes that fly in and out of Memphis 24/7?

 

[Amdlova]

Elon musk should build this in Paraguay almost free energy, cheap handwork and no law! they have 10 turbine can spare 7.000 MW =)

 

[Pemalite]

Sounds political.

Musk brought this all on himself.

 

[derekullo]

This seems like the kind of thing that an Ars Technica journalist could selectively report.

Yes, Elon has made himself a big public enemy, that still doesn't excuse selective reporting, which is actually editorializing in disguise as news.

The use of these generators is not unknown, but persons who tote the line will not be attacked under the guise of honest reporting. The Elon of 15 years ago got away with stuff like this and was held up by many of the same outlets now in outrage.

出る釘は打たれる
The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

 

[bit_user]

I did a little poking around and (aside from not running the datacenter at all), ... Sometimes massive compute is used and sometimes there is low power idle time. It would absolutely wreck the power grid to deal with that, so xai installed tons of tesla energy batteries and charges the off the generators.

Huh? If the batteries run the datacenter and the generators power the batteries, then the generators sure as heck do run the data center!

If you just needed to smooth out power draw, they could use the batteries without generators.

the generators and batteries are actually them being nice to the neighbors in my opinion.

It sounds like the actual neighbors don't feel that way. From the article:

Residents are complaining because xAI uses multiple methane gas turbines to cover the shortfall in its electrical needs. They told Ars Technica that it “likely make(s) xAI the largest emitter of smog-forming” pollution, and that they’re now working with the SELC to petition the Shelby County Health Department to reject xAI’s gas generator applications. The latter’s Pollution Control Branch has even scheduled a public hearing so that people living within the area can weigh in on the issue.​

The Elon of 15 years ago got away with stuff like this

Was it on the same scale? Because that can make a big difference.

Do tell, what are the emissions products and numbers from these natural gas generators vs, say, a natural gas power plant, like the 1100MW natural gas power plant in Memphis?

A power plant is regulated differently than these generators. It has smoke stacks, better emissions controls, and is also usually sited somewhere that it's less likely to be a problem.

 

[JohnyFin]

Let me comment this situation: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[Syntaximus]

Not a public enemy, but an enemy of a certain group of haters who are incapable of seeing good in those they are told are the enemy.

If by a certain group of haters you mean most of America now, then yeah.
The approval #s are public and so are the sales figures for Tesla. It's all out in the open.

 

[who_farted]

are we becoming pc gamer? maybe elon derangement syndrome is real.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Where I live, data centres consume one fifth of our nations electricity! This will only grow higher in the coming years. At some point we have to consider something different in how these data centres source their power.

 

[jp7189]

Huh? If the batteries run the datacenter and the generators power the batteries, then the generators sure as heck do run the data center!

If you just needed to smooth out power draw, they could use the batteries without generators.

Yeah I guess I was a little unclear in the sentence. I was being captain obvious by trying to say the nicest thing they could do for the neighbors was not run the datacenter at all, but aside from that they are doing the right things. The region promised a certain amount of power in a specific time-frame to attract this build in the first place. They fell short, breaking the agreement and xai is taking what options they have available without breaking any laws and by being respectful of the local grid that failed to deliver.

To your second point, the grid can't deliver enough juice, so they tickle charge the batteries from a combination of grid and generators.

It sounds like the actual neighbors don't feel that way. From the article:

..and imagine if they didn't run the generators, they would cause brown outs and black outs. That would move the needle from a few (but loud) disgruntled neighbors to 100% super cheesed neighbors. They could have rolled in diesel generators, but they didn't. What is it you're thinking it a better path for them to take given they are there to perform a task, they need a temp increase in power while the local utility builds out more capacity, they have to comply with laws, and pollution is a concern?

 

[bit_user]

What is it you're thinking it a better path for them to take given they are there to perform a task, they need a temp increase in power while the local utility builds out more capacity, they have to comply with laws, and pollution is a concern?

Elon needs to accept that either he messed up the planning of this facility or that he's outgrown those plans. Either way, it's clear that he should expand to another facility. That's the only way this gets solved in the short term. On a longer timescale, he could presumably work with the regional authorities to build appropriate infrastructure.

 

[passivecool]

A power plant is regulated differently than these generators. It has smoke stacks, better emissions controls, and is also usually sited somewhere that it's less likely to be a problem.

Alvar Miles Udell said:
Do tell, what are the emissions products and numbers from these natural gas generators vs, say, a natural gas power plant, like the 1100MW natural gas power plant in Memphis?

Besides the massive economy of scale which bring enormous efficiency benefits and the possibility to include extremely efficient air purification and carbon reduction benefits: nothing at all, really. you are right. 🙄

 

[jlake3]

The region promised a certain amount of power in a specific time-frame to attract this build in the first place. They fell short, breaking the agreement and xai is taking what options they have available without breaking any laws and by being respectful of the local grid that failed to deliver.

Part of the problem here is that this was not a new, greenfield datacenter build. He bought an old Electrolux appliance factory on the cheap that was not wired for the amount of power that was going to be needed, then moved in and started running before the transmission situation could be worked out. That’s how he supposedly “built” it so quick: they already had a structure and they didn’t wait for the planning/build-out of necessary utilities.

Then he doubled the amount of GPUs and the associated power requirements before the utilities could catch up with the power draw of his initial buildout and already plans to go bigger, seeming to guarantee they will continue to operate an on-site power generation facility indefinitely, in a residential area, that is made of many portable units that are less efficient, more polluting, and less regulated than large permanent installations.