News Elon Musk Accused of Bitcoin Market Manipulation By Top Economist

Jim90

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Lots of ways 'big money' can make profits here.
If Elon moves those Bitcoin shares onwards for profit...well then...that would be market manipulation - providing the it's within a 'short enough(!)' timeframe that authorities would have to act. However, there are long established ways very deliberately manipulate markets - particularly if you have the finds, and your activities are 'hidden and/or protected'.
For the average Joe, that organised social media loophole (e.g. GameStop) will, unfortunately, become tightly 'controlled', for obvious reasons. I wonder if Elon purchased his Bitcoin shares through Robinhood??!!
 

atomicWAR

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When Musk got slammed by SEC last time he well deserved it. Over his bitcoin twitter posts though? Common people are aloud an opinion and it is not his company this time he is jawing on about tweet by tweet. So far this is just stupid. It is Elon Musk though so I reserve judgement on his future actions/tweets....
 

Endymio

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Click-bait story. There's nothing illegal about "pumping up" the value of something you own, be it stock, real estate, or crypto coins. It only becomes illegal if you make intentionally false or deceptive statements in that effort.

In Musk's prior encounter with the SEC, he did apparently make the false statement that he had lined up venture capital to take Tesla private. But this? Looks like very little smoke, and no fire at all.
 

waltc3

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I don't care when the big investors manipulate each other--I think that's funny. Individuals, however, who can't afford much in the way of losses should understand that the lure of "something for nothing" is just classic sucker bait. Caveat Emptor, always. Don't expect the SEC or anyone else to hold your hand or look out for you or protect you from losses.
 

ginthegit

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Click-bait story. There's nothing illegal about "pumping up" the value of something you own, be it stock, real estate, or crypto coins. It only becomes illegal if you make intentionally false or deceptive statements in that effort.

In Musk's prior encounter with the SEC, he did apparently make the false statement that he had lined up venture capital to take Tesla private. But this? Looks like very little smoke, and no fire at all.
I think you are missing the point and the Click bait attitude towards the market idea is showing that the average Joe knows nothing of how the market works or what the Guys who ran the Gamestop fiasco were trying to do. Their whole point was not to make money, but to expose the system as being corrupt.

The press want to make it into the story of "Hedge Funds get massacred!" Crap, which is not the lesson that was to be taught. The Guys teaching the lesson to the Public are not interested in the money, they are all more interested in showing people how BS the whole stock market system is.

Lets look at the Stock market scam. It was made after the Federal Reserve act in the early 1900's to screw the public over. The government had no choice but to agree to sign a law that protected the Stock markets from crashing and the banks lose. The Federal reserve act was signed due to US gov selling too many bonds and not being able to make good on them. Bank of England bought up 90% of these bonds and called them in. Rather than the government letting the country default, it signed the Federal reserve act which allowed the Bank of England to control all the Finance in the USA. The whole FED (including the FBI and the CIA) are all owned and loaned to the Government of the USA by the FEDERAL RESERVE who is a Public entity owned by the Bank of England. Thank the congress for selling the USA out to England after winning the war of independence.

So Now you have a stock market that is completely based on FIAT money. Its valuation is no not based on sales and prosperity of a company, but by someone (or a boards) choice of confidence, So when Steve jobs died, the stocks of apple dropped massively despite there being no drop in sales. It was all a choice. The insiders who learned of Jobs death first would buy all the shares up when news got out on a first dip basis and that for a reduced price. Then the price went back up again and all those new issued shares would lessen the value of the shares already owned, and place more power into the new buyers hand. This is exactly how Zukerburg screwed over his Business partner and co founder. It thus places ownership into hands of individuals it wants to own them, people easily controlled or prepared to join the club.

And now it all becomes obvious. The game stock fiasco proved that the market is not only easy to manipulate, but also weak and ready to collapse. And who after its collapse will own anything? Just these mega owners and people like Bill Gates who is now the biggest owner of land in the USA. And he is either fallowing it, or pushing GMO crops that fail after the 9th gen of growth.

Now the WEF is openly pushing the Great reset under Klous... it all makes sense. The system will collapse and those of the club will own everything and you will own nothing... and be happy!

If you look up what Nathan Rothschild did in 1929, it is nearly identical to what Tusk and his mates are doing Nathan's move in 1929 started the great recession with the collapse of funds and everyone lost near everything. They made the whole middle and working class desperate and work like slaves for near nothing... The rich controlling the poor... and we all thought it just a bad fortune in history, and not controlled for purpose of complete control.

The question is "Why do the rich want more money?" They get so rich but want more and more rather than retire... to what end?

They will keep going until we are all under the new style of the Feudal system and we are all slaves....

Welcome to Industrial revolution 4.0 Cos that is what the WEF is calling it... and you will be happy!!!
 
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Endymio

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I think you are missing the point and the Click bait attitude towards the market idea is showing that the average Joe knows nothing of how the market works or what the Guys who ran the Gamestop fiasco were trying to do....[87,951 further words redacted]
An impressive wall of words, but it's clear you have no significant market presence or knowledge. The GameStop fiasco is not relevant to this situation, nor did "Roaring Kitty" expose any corruption, because there was none to expose.

I had intended further remarks, but I've just reached the point in your post where you claim the FBI and CIA are being rented out by the Fed, itself secretly owned by England. I know when a mind is beyond help. Enjoy your belief system.
 

superbeast406

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When Musk got slammed by SEC last time he well deserved it. Over his bitcoin twitter posts though? Common people are aloud an opinion and it is not his company this time he is jawing on about tweet by tweet. So far this is just stupid. It is Elon Musk though so I reserve judgement on his future actions/tweets....
When Musk got slammed by the SEC last time he payed Tesla's half of the fine he wasn't allowed to pay by buying that much more Tesla stock. Had the SEC not fined him he likely wouldn't be the worlds wealthiest person right now. Elon Musk laughs in the SEC's face.
 
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PapaCrazy

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An impressive wall of words, but it's clear you have no significant market presence or knowledge. The GameStop fiasco is not relevant to this situation, nor did "Roaring Kitty" expose any corruption, because there was none to expose.

I had intended further remarks, but I've just reached the point in your post where you claim the FBI and CIA are being rented out by the Fed, itself secretly owned by England. I know when a mind is beyond help. Enjoy your belief system.
He did make one important point in that wall though... the stock market is nothing but a monetary evaluation of confidence. It can be arbitrary, psychological, and sometimes verging on the illusionary. Hence the reason for laws against stock promotion. There are many examples of people manipulating confidence. Some argue, quite reasonably, that if a fool gets burned playing a fool's game it is their own fault. Yet our society often promotes the market as safe and rational. Some game rules need to be set and monitored to keep it anywhere close to fair. Or, if not fair, atleast accurately represented.
 

Endymio

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He did make one important point in that wall though... the stock market is nothing but a monetary evaluation of confidence.
Only in the short term. In the long run, all companies are valued by their return on investment. Companies that increase profits, rise in value.

If you don't like confidence-based valuations, simply use the old trusted and true buy and hold strategy. Only suckers trying get-rich-quick schemes get burned.

...Hence the reason for laws against stock promotion.
There are no laws against stock promotion. There are laws against fraudulently promoting stocks: a vast difference.
 

watzupken

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I feel this is where cryptocurrencies are a black hole and needs to be regulated just like any speculative investment. For all you know, Elon may own or have paid people to mine cryptocurrencies for him, and using his tweets and company's funds to invest in Bitcoin, knowing that this will further bump up Bitcoin prices and also other crytocurrencies as well. That's why they said, the rich gets richer, because they can move the market to their advantage. Just look at how much Bitcoin gained after he made those tweets and announced the investment by Tesla? These are my assumption/ opinion by the way, but this is how people can manipulate the market
 

Chung Leong

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Tesla stock fell nearly 5% after the comment was made, I noticed. Who's really manipulating the market here? This isn't some random citizen expressing his opinion. He's a former government official with direct access to the White House.
 

ginthegit

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Only in the short term. In the long run, all companies are valued by their return on investment. Companies that increase profits, rise in value.

If you don't like confidence-based valuations, simply use the old trusted and true buy and hold strategy. Only suckers trying get-rich-quick schemes get burned.

There are no laws against stock promotion. There are laws against fraudulently promoting stocks: a vast difference.

It's funny how you mock others perceptions of the world as delusional. You are a typical bigot who thinks that you Percieve the system in place and the government is made for the benefit of the people. LOL

I'm not even American and as a mockery of your limited knowledge on the subject, look up "the FACTORS that led to the FEDERAL reserve act" I think it is 1909 it was made. It is entirely made of Private owners like JP morgan, Barclays Bank (UK owned), HSBC (UK owned), the Rockafellers, and the list goes on of all these families and companies that always end up in conspiracy theories. Obviously you are afraid to do so! And again I will reiterate, I dont want you to research what it is?, but why it is?

And secondly, I know of people who were part of the hit on wall street, so I have first hand evidence of what they were trying to accomplish. They did not and still do not wish to make profit from it. They knew from the beginning that if they did, they would get screwed by the authorities with market manipulation. So in the end, now that the stock price is coming down, they will lose their money and the Hedge funds again win.

To further push my point, they limited or stopped further purchases or sales of shares (which is illegal, so they could not do what the hedge funds do, which is to wait until the price is squeezed out of the stocks (which is illegal). So this group did the opposite to the Illegal short Sell.....

You made the point above that a company is a good as its sales... LOL, so how did the valuation of the capital of the company Multiply just from the purchase of Shares alone. Sales were not even considered in the price of the company, it was all based on Shares.... This exposed the scam of companies being more controlled by shares (Confidence) than it is on direct sales, and thus dividends are based on Market speculation. Companies can go flat bust even if the sales are at a max, because the Investors will pull out, this usually causes a chain reaction in that banks have an excuse not to give the company loans and stop the production or stop its license in its tracks. It is controlled and completely corrupt... it would be fine except that the Governments of all countries that have stock-markets underwrite the debt, so the Public always loses.... But dumb azzes like yourself don't read between the lines and wander how a simple mass purchase of shares can cause big companies Massive billion dollar losses. DUh! But of course I am smoking dope....

People said the same thing about the Housing price Bubble in the USA, but it burst anyway, and the public tax payer lost out again (as did those that purchased property at the height of the bubble!) But I guess I dont understand the scam... The same will happen in the UK soon as the average house price here is now 200000 when the average wage is 23000.... Go figure... All those dumb azz people who will lose out who buy now.... Markets are corrupt.... Lets see how this Demand structure works, the markets make people believe that they must buy now or it will continue to rise, so they get desperate and buy at dumb azz prices. So the demand is artificially created, even though it is real... But at the same time repossession rate is also massive, and often larger than the So called demand.... If the two statistics were tied together (which they should be) the public would see the farce and not buy, and the bubble would never grow,,, but the trusting public is screwed by both the companies and the Government does NOTHING!

Same is done with these companies with sales. Even if "Games stops" sales were massive, they could make resounding losses due to the speculation in prices... the banks could then not give them essential loans etc due to stock prices and within a few weeks the production to sales cost results in losses due to the Banks handling of the speculation.... But when someone shows how easy the system is to manipulate, they call it illegal and stop it so that the hedgefunds (who the government officials place their money in) can make money again.

Buying stocks is a short Squeeze and this is not illegal. Even if it is concerted, because it can always lose money tomorrow and all is again lost, so what they did was not against the law... But what hedgefunds do is a short sell which is illegal, as selling stocks can collapse companies as they have to pay dividends on the losses to the stock holders and boom collapsed companies... Large companies like Microsoft and Intel have used these techniques (directx and the paying off companies to not use 3Dnow tech) to screw their competition to deplete their stock value... But AMD and Microsofts opponents stayed in business as they kept suing them. AMD lived for a long time of the law suit money off Intel.

Get a clue mate!
 
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ingtar33

Illustrious
Click-bait story. There's nothing illegal about "pumping up" the value of something you own, be it stock, real estate, or crypto coins. It only becomes illegal if you make intentionally false or deceptive statements in that effort.

In Musk's prior encounter with the SEC, he did apparently make the false statement that he had lined up venture capital to take Tesla private. But this? Looks like very little smoke, and no fire at all.
agreed. there is nothing different from Musk letting people know his position on something he bought then in Warren Buffet letting people know what Berkshire Hathaway is investing in. If this is market manipulation by Musk (and it may be) then Warren Buffet has been doing it for decades.
 

King_V

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Only in the short term. In the long run, all companies are valued by their return on investment. Companies that increase profits, rise in value.
What planet does THAT happen on? In the past, say, 25-30 years, what on earth makes you think that the long run is much of a consideration?

That might apply to privately held companies, and that's why, after the dot-com meltdown, some companies tried to buy back their own stock so that they wouldn't be beholden to shareholders who only cared about a short term quick gain.

It's like you're trying to make a point about the long term, but haven't looked at history beyond the short term.
 
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Endymio

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What planet does THAT happen on?
Third rock from the Sun.

that's why, after the dot-com meltdown, some companies tried to buy back their own stock so that they wouldn't be beholden to shareholders
Lol, no company ever bought back all its stock, or even could in theory. Furthermore, stock buybacks shrink the shareholder pool and if anything make corporations more vulnerable to activist shareholder pressures. Buyback aren't about that, they're merely a tool to raise the share price.

All companies have an inherent valuation based on profitability and revenue growth. "Optimism" only changes that so much. Try actually investing in the market. You'll either learn this is true, or lose all your money, and move onto other topics. Either way, a net win for the rest of us.
 

King_V

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Third rock from the Sun.

Lol, no company ever bought back all its stock, or even could in theory. Furthermore, stock buybacks shrink the shareholder pool and if anything make corporations more vulnerable to activist shareholder pressures. Buyback aren't about that, they're merely a tool to raise the share price.

All companies have an inherent valuation based on profitability and revenue growth. "Optimism" only changes that so much. Try actually investing in the market. You'll either learn this is true, or lose all your money, and move onto other topics. Either way, a net win for the rest of us.
Oh, I wish I were a betting man, because I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

You are dead wrong. Just the two tech companies I know off the top of my head did so: Dell in 2013, and Seagate in 2002. More can be found if I wanted to put more than 2 minutes in a Google search, and a number of non-tech companies have also gone private.
 

Endymio

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You are dead wrong. Just the two tech companies I know off the top of my head did so: Dell in 2013, and Seagate in 2002...a number of non-tech companies have also gone private.
ROFL, "going private" is not a company buying back all its own stock. It's a group of private investors using THEIR OWN money to purchase all the outstanding shares of a corporation. It's not the same game. It's not even the same sport.
Oh, I wish I were a betting man, because I'd ask you to put your money where your mouth is.
I do. Every day the market's open.
 

King_V

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ROFL, "going private" is not a company buying back all its own stock. It's a group of private investors using THEIR OWN money to purchase all the outstanding shares of a corporation. It's not the same game. It's not even the same sport.
I do. Every day the market's open.
Fair enough, I used an incorrect term. Yes, for example, Michael Dell and Silver Lake bought Dell, which Michael Dell was CEO of. So, the company itself didn't do it, the CEO of the company did it.
 

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