Enduring Ideal pulling out local enchantments

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello,
after thinking about it for a while I'd say that Enduring Ideal (the
previewed white Epic spell) can easily Arrest (enchant with Arrest)
opponent's untargetable creatures, such as Kodama of the North Tree,
Troll Ascetic etc. - unless they have protection from white or cannot
be enchanted (Tetravite tokens; Tattoo Ward etc.) The same must be
true for Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage (of course, it's only MOVING
enchantments, not putting them into play).

Here is the rule that made me think so:
212.4e If a local enchantment is coming into play by any other means
than being played, and the effect putting it into play doesn't specify
what it will enchant, the player putting it into play chooses a
permanent or player for it to enchant as it comes into play. In this
case, the enchantment doesn't target the permanent, but the player who
is putting it into play still must choose a permanent or player that
the enchantment can enchant. If no legal permanent or player is
available, the enchantment remains in the zone from which it attempted
to move instead of coming into play. The same rule applies to moving a
local enchantment from one permanent to another or from one player to
another. The permanent or player to which the enchantment is to be
moved must be able to be enchanted by it. If it isn't legal, the
enchantment doesn't move.

Another question: if there is nothing this local enchantment could
enchant, will it return to its owner's library? After all, that's the
zone "from which it attempted to move"...

Enduring Ideal
5WW
Sorcery
Search your library for an Enchantment card and put it into play. Epic
(For the rest of the game you can't play spells. At the beginning of
each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for it's epic ability.)
 
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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 18 May 2005 10:46:48 -0700, Zarin <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>after thinking about it for a while I'd say that Enduring Ideal (the
>previewed white Epic spell) can easily Arrest (enchant with Arrest)
>opponent's untargetable creatures, such as Kodama of the North Tree,
>Troll Ascetic etc. - unless they have protection from white or cannot
>be enchanted (Tetravite tokens; Tattoo Ward etc.) The same must be
>true for Autumn-Tail, Kitsune Sage (of course, it's only MOVING
>enchantments, not putting them into play).

Yes, that's correct. Putting a local enchantment into play by other means than
casting it as a spell is -not- targetted, so ignores any "can't be the
target of spells or abilities" effects. It does, however, still have to
notice any "can't be enchanted by" effects that are appropriate.

>Here is the rule that made me think so:
>212.4e If a local enchantment is coming into play by any other means
>than being played, and the effect putting it into play doesn't specify
>what it will enchant, the player putting it into play chooses a
>permanent or player for it to enchant as it comes into play. In this
>case, the enchantment doesn't target the permanent, but the player who
>is putting it into play still must choose a permanent or player that
>the enchantment can enchant. If no legal permanent or player is
>available, the enchantment remains in the zone from which it attempted
>to move instead of coming into play. The same rule applies to moving a
>local enchantment from one permanent to another or from one player to
>another. The permanent or player to which the enchantment is to be
>moved must be able to be enchanted by it. If it isn't legal, the
>enchantment doesn't move.

Your interpretation is correct; as long as the enchantment isn't getting
put onto the creature in a way that -targets- the creature, "can't be the
target of" can't stop it.

>Another question: if there is nothing this local enchantment could
>enchant, will it return to its owner's library? After all, that's the
>zone "from which it attempted to move"...

It will -stay in- that library, actually; it doesn't "go into play and then
pop out again". Then the player shuffles. Technically it doesn't even get
revealed, if this happens (though since you're allowed to Not Find an
enchantment card while you search, there's nothing really broken about that;
opponent can't "force" you to put an enchantment out if you don't want to or
think you can't).

Dave
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