Epic Games Pushes Graphics Fidelity With Photorealistic Character Model

[Tech_TTT]

You're not seeing the hurdle that your argument is constrained by. 3d real-time graphics are not isolated on the GPU, the CPU is the bottleneck, this is why DX12 and Vulkan are so necessary for the future of games and what they are capable of.

For a GPU to display something it must always pass through the CPU first. Even the 3d creation programs. For example, I use Modo, it handles 1 object (one object can contain any 3d shape separate from each other and any number of polygons) with huge polygon counts very well, however it's a program of which its performance is killed when I have a large amount of separate objects, even if each of those only contain 1 polygon; this is the same for any real-time graphic display engine.

This is because of draw calls, any time the GPU wants to display any 3d object (again, polygon groups don't have to connect to be the same object, [check of how foliage is a special component within game engines]) it must go through the CPU as a draw call. A draw call is not the same as an instance however so do not mistake it for one. An instance is getting the data of that 3d object (the polygons, textures, shader calculations) and storing it in RAM, once; this is way it is possible to have a field full of grass and not be using a stupendous amount of RAM.

It would be amazing if we didn't have the CPU bottle-necking what is possible, but this is the way the world is. In the mean time, the GPU can be put to better use.

I never said it is isolated ... you are always assuming things I did not say ... my main point is not to waste GPU power on people real look inside the game ... put the GPU power used for this some where else . thats all . you want me to add cpu to it? fine , CPU + GPU .. this is not the point of my discussion , my point is that true looking people is a waste of resources ... no one would care to see every hair on a man beard while playing a game thats all .

 

[Nicolii]

I never said it is isolated ... you are always assuming things I did not say ... my main point is not to waste GPU power on people real look inside the game ... put the GPU power used for this some where else . thats all . you want me to add cpu to it? fine , CPU + GPU .. this is not the point of my discussion , my point is that true looking people is a waste of resources ... no one would care to see every hair on a man beard while playing a game thats all .

And my point is that if we tried to do what you wanted you would get terrible frames regardless because of the CPU. So we use the power of the GPU to do things we can do.

 

[Tech_TTT]

I never said it is isolated ... you are always assuming things I did not say ... my main point is not to waste GPU power on people real look inside the game ... put the GPU power used for this some where else . thats all . you want me to add cpu to it? fine , CPU + GPU .. this is not the point of my discussion , my point is that true looking people is a waste of resources ... no one would care to see every hair on a man beard while playing a game thats all .

And my point is that if we tried to do what you wanted you would get terrible frames regardless because of the CPU. So we use the power of the GPU to do things we can do.

who is we ? are you part of Epic Games ? it is just your simple opinion. thank you for your time .

 

[Nicolii]

We, as in game developers as a whole. This is not my opinion, it is fact, the CPU cannot handle what you want. The technology is not capable of it.

If you think that is just my 'simple opinion' then fine. Speak to someone who is responsible for engine development in any game studio, and ask them why what you want isn't feasible. I am no longer using my time to explain to someone who doesn't want to listen.

 

[Tech_TTT]

We, as in game developers as a whole. This is not my opinion, it is fact, the CPU cannot handle what you want. The technology is not capable of it.

If you think that is just my 'simple opinion' then fine. Speak to someone who is responsible for engine development in any game studio, and ask them why what you want isn't feasible. I am no longer using my time to explain to someone who doesn't want to listen.

no it is not a fact. 8 cores CPU are not being used in games as well ... your CPU is not enough means nothing, we have the cores and no one is using them.6 , 8 and 10 cores i7 and the cheap AMD Ryzen 8 cores .

IMO instead of wasting time on making Game engines with realistic face design , they should start coding for 16 cores ! not 8 but 16 for future proof Engine.

anyways have a nice day .

 

[Nicolii]

no it is not a fact. 8 cores CPU are not being used in games as well ... your CPU is not enough means nothing, we have the cores and no one is using them. 8 and 10 cores i7 and the cheap AMD Ryzen 8 cores .

So what you are saying, is that this is a technology problem, for utilizing a component of the computer that isn't fully known how to utilize? In other words the CPU is a bottleneck?

 

[Tech_TTT]

no it is not a fact. 8 cores CPU are not being used in games as well ... your CPU is not enough means nothing, we have the cores and no one is using them. 8 and 10 cores i7 and the cheap AMD Ryzen 8 cores .

So what you are saying, is that this is a technology problem, for utilizing a component of the computer that isn't fully known how to utilize? In other words the CPU is a bottleneck?

I am saying that they are wasting their resources and time on things that will never give better game play at all. the facial detail we have today is enough. I dont want to count hair on his/her face this is too much and useless and as I said needs zooming to see..

I want them to start moving into the right direction ... make an Engine that scales with the number of cores ... the more cores you give it the faster it become and the more object it can show and move . Thats what I am saying.

and by the way , even without Physics calculations , The GPU still cant handle everything , some object can just follow pre defined routes on the 3D map and just react to a pre fixed wind direction . this is just ready animation , and not physics and still we cant have more Objects of this type ....

I am not saying you are wrong , I am saying we dont neeeed it ...

 

[Nicolii]

I am saying that they are wasting their resources and time on things that will never give better game play at all. the facial detail we have today is enough. I don't want to count hair on his/her face this is too much and useless and as I said needs zooming to see..

Epic is no longer 'just' a game engine house, they are a real-time engine house. Games are still their primary focus (thankfully), but they are trying to break into the film industry as well, as a real-time 3d renderer (this would save time on a ridiculous magnitude). This isn't a question of gameplay anymore for their engine development.

I want them to start moving into the right direction ... make an Engine that scales with the number of cores ... the more cores you give it the faster it become and the more object it can show and move . That's what I am saying.

This is happening, but it's difficult, and it is going to take time. Its a matter of human resources, they only have so many programmers who specialize in this stuff. Epic is one of the very few studios where the Programmer to Artist ratio isn't around 1-3 programmers for every 10 artists.

and by the way , even without Physics calculations , The GPU still cant handle everything , some object can just follow pre defined routes on the 3D map and just react to a pre fixed wind direction . this is just ready animation , and not physics and still we cant have more Objects of this type ....

Okay, this is where I am going to have to take out my hat as a 3d artist. What you want, be it physics or animation (as in manipulating the vertices to move to make a 3d model deform, be it for wind or a walking animation) are CPU bound. Yes the GPU draws the polygons, the CPU manipulates them. Even a box that has no vertex deformation, that is instructed to travel in a straight line from point A to point B, that is a calculation on the CPU.

If you are having trouble understanding that, I can go into more detail, but you have got to be willing to listen. I am willing to teach anyone who is willing to listen and I will take the time to patiently do so.

I'm not angry at you, I'm just exhausted from explaining the same thing in different ways.

 

[Tech_TTT]

I am saying that they are wasting their resources and time on things that will never give better game play at all. the facial detail we have today is enough. I don't want to count hair on his/her face this is too much and useless and as I said needs zooming to see..

Epic is no longer 'just' a game engine house, they are a real-time engine house. Games are still their primary focus (thankfully), but they are trying to break into the film industry as well, as a real-time 3d renderer (this would save time on a ridiculous magnitude). This isn't a question of gameplay anymore for their engine development.

I want them to start moving into the right direction ... make an Engine that scales with the number of cores ... the more cores you give it the faster it become and the more object it can show and move . That's what I am saying.

This is happening, but it's difficult, and it is going to take time. Its a matter of human resources, they only have so many programmers who specialize in this stuff. Epic is one of the very few studios where the Programmer to Artist ratio isn't around 1-3 programmers for every 10 artists.

and by the way , even without Physics calculations , The GPU still cant handle everything , some object can just follow pre defined routes on the 3D map and just react to a pre fixed wind direction . this is just ready animation , and not physics and still we cant have more Objects of this type ....

Okay, this is where I am going to have to take out my hat as a 3d artist. What you want, be it physics or animation (as in manipulating the vertices to move to make a 3d model deform, be it for wind or a walking animation) are CPU bound. Yes the GPU draws the polygons, the CPU manipulates them. Even a box that has no vertex deformation, that is instructed to travel in a straight line from point A to point B, that is a calculation on the CPU.

If you are having trouble understanding that, I can go into more detail, but you have got to be willing to listen. I am willing to teach anyone who is willing to listen and I will take the time to patiently do so.

I'm not angry at you, I'm just exhausted from explaining the same thing in different ways.

helooooooo , when I say pre defined route I mean does not need huge calculations , unlike physics calculations that includes numerical calculation of huge Matrices ..

Pre defined route is not like CALCULATED Route .. predefined route is FIXED .. Calculated Routes that interacts with many other outside Variables using Physics Laws is not fixed , each time is different route that is what makes the CPU Busy.

we are not arguing about what is CPU bound and what is not .. we are talking about how much it stresses the CPU.

Stop assuming things I never said okay ?

it seems you are the one who cant listen not me . and stop repeating every time "you dont listen" this is getting annoying.

and what is this "I am not angry at you" ???

wake up and smell the coffee .