Epson 870 kaput?

[Robert]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have an Epson 870 with a continuous inking system that has probably
printed about 10,000 8.5X11 colour photographs. It finally gave up the
ghost--all 3 lights flashing. I'd hate to junk it but the cost or repairs is
estimated to be about 2-4 times the price of an R200 which of course uses a
different CIS. Anybody had any luck with trying to repair an 870? Is there a
repair manual?
thanks
rtm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

All three lights flashing probably means the waste ink pads are full of
ink. This is not a sensor, but based upon a count of the number of
cleaning and other purging cycles the printer has been through.

You have certainly gotten your moneys worth from this printer. However,
you can reset the "protection counter" as it is called, back to zero,
and start over. The only risk is that should the waste ink pads actually
overflow with ink, it could begin to start leaking out the bottom of the
printer. If you ar not going to replace the pads, at least place the
printer on a tray so your carpets and furniture isn't damaged.

The sequence to reset the waste ink counter is as follows:

WASTE INK ROM RESET ONLY 870, 1270

1. Turn the printer off using the power button on the panel of the printer.
2. Disconnect the interface cable at the back of the printer.
3. Hold down the "LOAD/EJECT" and "CLEANING" buttons simultaneously.
4. Turn the printer on. Release all buttons as soon as paper out light
flashes.
5. Quickly press (within 3 seconds while PAPER OUT light is flashing)
the "CLEANING" button for 10 seconds.
6. Release the button and the printer will initialize.
7. Once initialization is complete, turn the printer off.
8. Reconnect the interface cable.
9. Turn the printer on

Art

Robert wrote:

> I have an Epson 870 with a continuous inking system that has probably
> printed about 10,000 8.5X11 colour photographs. It finally gave up the
> ghost--all 3 lights flashing. I'd hate to junk it but the cost or repairs is
> estimated to be about 2-4 times the price of an R200 which of course uses a
> different CIS. Anybody had any luck with trying to repair an 870? Is there a
> repair manual?
> thanks
> rtm
>
>

 

[Robert]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur -- you were absolutely correct. That has it back working fine. Thanks
so much. One further question -- how do you change the waste ink pads?
cheers from Vancouver
rtm
"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:dzlpd.188116$df2.180123@edtnps89...
> All three lights flashing probably means the waste ink pads are full of
> ink. This is not a sensor, but based upon a count of the number of
> cleaning and other purging cycles the printer has been through.
>
> You have certainly gotten your moneys worth from this printer. However,
> you can reset the "protection counter" as it is called, back to zero, and
> start over. The only risk is that should the waste ink pads actually
> overflow with ink, it could begin to start leaking out the bottom of the
> printer. If you ar not going to replace the pads, at least place the
> printer on a tray so your carpets and furniture isn't damaged.
>
> The sequence to reset the waste ink counter is as follows:
>
> WASTE INK ROM RESET ONLY 870, 1270
>
> 1. Turn the printer off using the power button on the panel of the
> printer.
> 2. Disconnect the interface cable at the back of the printer.
> 3. Hold down the "LOAD/EJECT" and "CLEANING" buttons simultaneously.
> 4. Turn the printer on. Release all buttons as soon as paper out light
> flashes.
> 5. Quickly press (within 3 seconds while PAPER OUT light is flashing)
> the "CLEANING" button for 10 seconds.
> 6. Release the button and the printer will initialize.
> 7. Once initialization is complete, turn the printer off.
> 8. Reconnect the interface cable.
> 9. Turn the printer on
>
> Art
>
> Robert wrote:
>
>> I have an Epson 870 with a continuous inking system that has probably
>> printed about 10,000 8.5X11 colour photographs. It finally gave up the
>> ghost--all 3 lights flashing. I'd hate to junk it but the cost or repairs
>> is estimated to be about 2-4 times the price of an R200 which of course
>> uses a different CIS. Anybody had any luck with trying to repair an 870?
>> Is there a repair manual?
>> thanks
>> rtm
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:09 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:

>Hi Robert,
>
>In a perfect world, changing the waste ink pads would be as simple as
>removing a little sliding drawer and dumping the old pads in a plastic
>bag and putting in some new ones, or better yet, having the ink go into
>a small plastic bottle that could be replaced or emptied.

A suggestion for you. Instead moaning and complaining, why not design
the system you mentioned above. You and your lawyer can then approach
Epson with your design improvement to their printers and be rewarded
with huge amount of money. I would do it but unfortunately I don't
have the know-how. If you have an aversion to having a huge amount of
money I'd gladly take the money. Thanking you in advance.

>how to open the case, remove the body of the printer mechanism, and then
>remove the old waste pads, and then order new ones, wait a week or two
>and pay too much for them.

Waste ink pads for most Stylus ink jet printers are readily available.
The waste ink pads on average cost less than $10.00CDN each.

>The whole manner if which this was designed bothers me. The fact that
>the printer stops dead with no warning, and that Epson doesn't even tell
>the client that every printer leaves the factory with this "time-bomb"
>which will set them back at $50 or more for parts and service, and that
>it is not really user serviceable, seems to be a very questionable
>business practice.

Again you could redesign the above process and be rewarded with
insanely amount of money.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <oj1hq01tonu6qoa44qpnj8vmakpt3ha50f@4ax.com>, Ototin
<bangsit@balay.ca> writes
>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:09 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Hi Robert,
>>
>>In a perfect world, changing the waste ink pads would be as simple as
>>removing a little sliding drawer and dumping the old pads in a plastic
>>bag and putting in some new ones, or better yet, having the ink go into
>>a small plastic bottle that could be replaced or emptied.
>
>A suggestion for you. Instead moaning and complaining, why not design
>the system you mentioned above. You and your lawyer can then approach
>Epson with your design improvement to their printers and be rewarded
>with huge amount of money. I would do it but unfortunately I don't
>have the know-how. If you have an aversion to having a huge amount of
>money I'd gladly take the money. Thanking you in advance.
>
A suggestion for you. Learn some basic economics!
Epson haven't done it this way because they couldn't design a user
replaceable waste ink pad. They have done it this way because they can
get more money from you, their customer. Showing Epson how to do the
job properly will neither get you any interest or any income because for
them to pay you, they need to make more money, not less!
>
>Waste ink pads for most Stylus ink jet printers are readily available.
>The waste ink pads on average cost less than $10.00CDN each.
>
Which is about 1000x what they cost, and represents at least 50% clear
profit after transport and storage costs are taken into account.

Of course, what Epson are hoping users will do is call the service
centre, get a quote for repair and realise its cheaper to buy a
completely new printer - so when it happens to you, make sure its a
Canon! That is what will get the message through to Epson execs, not
turning up on their doorstep with ideas that reduce their income!
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a ah heck when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:10:17 +0000, Kennedy McEwen
<rkm@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <oj1hq01tonu6qoa44qpnj8vmakpt3ha50f@4ax.com>, Ototin
><bangsit@balay.ca> writes
>>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:09 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Robert,
>>>
>>>In a perfect world, changing the waste ink pads would be as simple as
>>>removing a little sliding drawer and dumping the old pads in a plastic
>>>bag and putting in some new ones, or better yet, having the ink go into
>>>a small plastic bottle that could be replaced or emptied.

>>A suggestion for you. Instead moaning and complaining, why not design
>>the system you mentioned above. You and your lawyer can then approach
>>Epson with your design improvement to their printers and be rewarded
>>with huge amount of money. I would do it but unfortunately I don't
>>have the know-how. If you have an aversion to having a huge amount of
>>money I'd gladly take the money. Thanking you in advance.

>A suggestion for you. Learn some basic economics!
>Epson haven't done it this way because they couldn't design a user
>replaceable waste ink pad.

Perhaps you and Arthur Entlich could design a user replaceable waste
ink pads so as to satisfy "some basic economics", whatever that is. I
just wish you and Arthur Entlich would put your energy and time
towards a solution rather than complaining about it. You don't have to
share the solution with Epson. Just sell it directly to the owners of
Stylus ink jet printers. Just be careful that you don't make 'at least
50% clear profit'. I think a 0% clear profit is fair.

>They have done it this way because they can
>get more money from you, their customer. Showing Epson how to do the
>job properly will neither get you any interest or any income because for
>them to pay you, they need to make more money, not less!

Isn't increasing the price of the printer the answer for them to make
more money? Or does the target consumer of these printers not willing
to pay for it.

>>Waste ink pads for most Stylus ink jet printers are readily available.
>>The waste ink pads on average cost less than $10.00CDN each.

>Which is about 1000x what they cost, and represents at least 50% clear
>profit after transport and storage costs are taken into account.

I can't comment on the "1000x what they cost" because I don't know how
much they cost. Since you are privy to such knowledge I'll take your
word for it. Perhaps you could start an organisation to stop companies
from making 'least 50% clear profit'. What would be a fair profit
margin?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ototin wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:09 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Robert,
>>
>>In a perfect world, changing the waste ink pads would be as simple as
>>removing a little sliding drawer and dumping the old pads in a plastic
>>bag and putting in some new ones, or better yet, having the ink go into
>>a small plastic bottle that could be replaced or emptied.
>
>
> A suggestion for you. Instead moaning and complaining, why not design
> the system you mentioned above. You and your lawyer can then approach
> Epson with your design improvement to their printers and be rewarded
> with huge amount of money. I would do it but unfortunately I don't
> have the know-how. If you have an aversion to having a huge amount of
> money I'd gladly take the money. Thanking you in advance.
>
>

I am not "just moaning and complaining". I have been advocating this
for years. I do know exactly how to make such a design, as does Epson.
In fact, some printers use similar systems, and many people have
retrofitted their printers to do just this. It voids the warranty, of
course, because it requires cutting a hole into the side of the printer
the way the current models are made. It could easily be incorporated
into the case.

Epson doesn't incorporate it because they make money with the system
they have now. This is not rocket science, by any means.

If you knew me better, you'd know I have been involved in dozens of
design changes in product lines. I don't even charge for them, because
for me, the value is in the advantages they supply to the end user and
the often the environment. It gives me a certain pleasure just to know
my idea has made the world just a bit better, or easier.

You should, perhaps, be a little less judgmental about other people's
motives when you know little about them.

>>how to open the case, remove the body of the printer mechanism, and then
>>remove the old waste pads, and then order new ones, wait a week or two
>>and pay too much for them.
>
>
> Waste ink pads for most Stylus ink jet printers are readily available.
> The waste ink pads on average cost less than $10.00CDN each.
>
>

Which, as I stated, comes to $50 or more once the labor is added in.

>>The whole manner if which this was designed bothers me. The fact that
>>the printer stops dead with no warning, and that Epson doesn't even tell
>>the client that every printer leaves the factory with this "time-bomb"
>>which will set them back at $50 or more for parts and service, and that
>>it is not really user serviceable, seems to be a very questionable
>>business practice.
>
>
> Again you could redesign the above process and be rewarded with
> insanely amount of money.
>

Yeah, you try speaking to Epson then and see how far you get. Epson
doesn't even listen to their own people, outside of Japan. Epson/Seiko
has been a closely held private company for very many years, and they
are not very open to new ideas that aren't generated by their own
engineers in Japan.

I also could offer a number of design changes that could:

Reduce or eliminate head clogs
Produce light dye load inks directly from the full dye load inks

Both would probably negatively alter Epson's bottom line. I doubt
they'd be in a rush to incorporate them.

Art

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:36:18 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:

>Ototin wrote:

>> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:09 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
>> wrote:

>>>Hi Robert,
>>>In a perfect world, changing the waste ink pads would be as simple as
>>>removing a little sliding drawer and dumping the old pads in a plastic
>>>bag and putting in some new ones, or better yet, having the ink go into
>>>a small plastic bottle that could be replaced or emptied.

>> A suggestion for you. Instead moaning and complaining, why not design
>> the system you mentioned above. You and your lawyer can then approach
>> Epson with your design improvement to their printers and be rewarded
>> with huge amount of money. I would do it but unfortunately I don't
>> have the know-how. If you have an aversion to having a huge amount of
>> money I'd gladly take the money. Thanking you in advance.

>I am not "just moaning and complaining". I have been advocating this
>for years. I do know exactly how to make such a design, as does Epson.

Would you mind sharing it with me?

>Epson doesn't incorporate it because they make money with the system
>they have now. This is not rocket science, by any means.

Let us pray that someday every one is not so pre-occupied in making
money. All together now, "In the name of the father ....."

>If you knew me better, you'd know I have been involved in dozens of
>design changes in product lines.

You are correct I don't know you better than a hole on the ground.
Perhaps I could visit your personal web site to learn more about you.
Please forward the URL.

>You should, perhaps, be a little less judgmental about other people's
>motives when you know little about them.

I was not judging your motives. I'm sorry if what I wrote seemed to
convey such message. English is my second language so please forgive
me, sir.

I was trying to get you to do something that will actually produce
physical results.

>Yeah, you try speaking to Epson then and see how far you get. Epson
>doesn't even listen to their own people, outside of Japan. Epson/Seiko
>has been a closely held private company for very many years, and they
>are not very open to new ideas that aren't generated by their own
>engineers in Japan.

I did not know that. Is it safe to assume that the above statement
relates to your own personal experience?

>I also could offer a number of design changes that could:

>Reduce or eliminate head clogs
>Produce light dye load inks directly from the full dye load inks

>Both would probably negatively alter Epson's bottom line. I doubt
>they'd be in a rush to incorporate them.

Wow, that is incredible, amazing. I bow to your superior intellect.
The sad part is that the world will never see the above design changes
incorporated into future Stylus ink jets.

In the mean time, perhaps you could come up with design changes to the
lowly sliced bread toaster. Please remove the 'burnt setting'
available on all sliced bread toaster. I don't like to eat a burnt
toast and frankly I don't know anyone who does. It would save me
plenty of money, cost of electricity and bread, and will also help in
saving the environment.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Funny how both Kennedy and I have the same information to provide. I
didn't read his reply until a few minutes ago. The economics are pretty
obvious to anyone who gave it a bit of thought.

I know this is something probably completely outside of your
understanding, and you might even find it horribly offensive, but since
I'm feeling so generous, being the US thanksgiving season and all (even
though we had thanksgiving about a month ago here in Canada) I'm going
to GIVE anyone who wishes to follow them, instructions for getting
around the waste ink pad situation. Since it is a retrofit, it does
involve people opening up the printer case, and probably drilling some
holes in the side of it, and it isn't as pretty as it could be done at
the factory.

Epson printers have either one or two vacuum pumps which are actually
eccentric pumps that run off the platen motor. Most newer Epson
printers with one incorporated head have only one. Older models which
had a separate black and color head used two. They basically work by
"milking" a silicone rubber tube that is connected to the cleaning
station. The tube runs through a eccentric cam that pushes out the
excess ink while creating a vacuum in front of it to purge the heads
nozzles of ink.

This tube isn't very long, and the end that doesn't connect to the
cleaning station sits inside some felt-like batting which leads to the
waste ink pad, or right on top of the waste ink pad. The waste ink
simply leaks into the absorbent material.

Since a retrofit to make the waste ink pads easier to get to would be
very involved (although easy to manufacture into the printer to begin
with), the next best thing is just to bring those waste ink tubes
outside of the printer and have them deposit their ink into an external
container. To do so, you have to open up the printer case (I am sorry
but I cannot provide the instructions for doing this, as each model of
case is different and some involve so tricky interlocks that you need a
service manual to comprehend). Once you have the unit open, you simply
locate the one or two tubes coming out of the vacuum pump(s). You then
need to find an appropriate preferably silicone tubing which you can
either junction with the other tube with a coupling or a tube which fits
over the other tube's outside diameter and add enough tubing to allow
the end of the tube to be brought outside the printer through a hole
made in the appropriate place in the case. You probably should not have
the tube going back up hill, as it will cause the ink to pool and
possible flood the cleaning station with the old ink. Probably the best
way to insure proper flow in this jury-rigged method, is to lift the
printer up a few inches higher than the location the container that will
catch the ink will sit. You may wish to place some absorbent material
(disposable diaper?) in the container to help the ink to flow out (by
capillary action) and to keep the end of the tube from drying and clogging.

Replace case, feed tubes through holes you created, place tubes in
container, and when the printer shuts down due having reached protection
number, reset the EEPROM via the button presses and make sure the
container still has room for ink. If it gets filled, replace it.

OK, guys, go to town. Patent it, sell retrofitting services, make a
fortune, hell, I don't care. There is a lot more to life than money,
and Ototin, hopefully, over time, even you will figure that out.

Enjoy!

Art

Ototin wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:10:17 +0000, Kennedy McEwen
> <rkm@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <oj1hq01tonu6qoa44qpnj8vmakpt3ha50f@4ax.com>, Ototin
>><bangsit@balay.ca> writes
>>
>>>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:17:09 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Robert,
>>>>
>>>>In a perfect world, changing the waste ink pads would be as simple as
>>>>removing a little sliding drawer and dumping the old pads in a plastic
>>>>bag and putting in some new ones, or better yet, having the ink go into
>>>>a small plastic bottle that could be replaced or emptied.
>
>
>>>A suggestion for you. Instead moaning and complaining, why not design
>>>the system you mentioned above. You and your lawyer can then approach
>>>Epson with your design improvement to their printers and be rewarded
>>>with huge amount of money. I would do it but unfortunately I don't
>>>have the know-how. If you have an aversion to having a huge amount of
>>>money I'd gladly take the money. Thanking you in advance.
>
>
>>A suggestion for you. Learn some basic economics!
>>Epson haven't done it this way because they couldn't design a user
>>replaceable waste ink pad.
>
>
> Perhaps you and Arthur Entlich could design a user replaceable waste
> ink pads so as to satisfy "some basic economics", whatever that is. I
> just wish you and Arthur Entlich would put your energy and time
> towards a solution rather than complaining about it. You don't have to
> share the solution with Epson. Just sell it directly to the owners of
> Stylus ink jet printers. Just be careful that you don't make 'at least
> 50% clear profit'. I think a 0% clear profit is fair.
>
>
>>They have done it this way because they can
>>get more money from you, their customer. Showing Epson how to do the
>>job properly will neither get you any interest or any income because for
>>them to pay you, they need to make more money, not less!
>
>
> Isn't increasing the price of the printer the answer for them to make
> more money? Or does the target consumer of these printers not willing
> to pay for it.
>
>
>>>Waste ink pads for most Stylus ink jet printers are readily available.
>>>The waste ink pads on average cost less than $10.00CDN each.
>
>
>>Which is about 1000x what they cost, and represents at least 50% clear
>>profit after transport and storage costs are taken into account.
>
>
> I can't comment on the "1000x what they cost" because I don't know how
> much they cost. Since you are privy to such knowledge I'll take your
> word for it. Perhaps you could start an organisation to stop companies
> from making 'least 50% clear profit'. What would be a fair profit
> margin?
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:46:11 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:

>OK, guys, go to town. Patent it, sell retrofitting services, make a
>fortune, hell, I don't care. There is a lot more to life than money,
>and Ototin, hopefully, over time, even you will figure that out.

It always annoys me to hear people say 'there is a lot more to life
than money' because in all likelyhood that same person who said has
had a very enjoyable life because of having money.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <eiiiq0h14gmtb5up5p9ji47p3ri770ut9e@4ax.com>, Ototin
<bangsit@balay.ca> writes
>
>Perhaps you and Arthur Entlich could design a user replaceable waste
>ink pads so as to satisfy "some basic economics", whatever that is. I
>just wish you and Arthur Entlich would put your energy and time
>towards a solution rather than complaining about it. You don't have to
>share the solution with Epson. Just sell it directly to the owners of
>Stylus ink jet printers. Just be careful that you don't make 'at least
>50% clear profit'. I think a 0% clear profit is fair.
>
That has already been done and provided to Epson users on this forum and
others *for free*! Use cotton pads or, better, the absorbent pads from
diapers (nappies in the UK) or feminine sanitary towels. Stick these
inside a "sandwich bag" or other sealed polythene bag with a small hole
for the waste ink tube from the peristaltic pump to fit through and you
have an extremely economic alternative. Now, all you need are the Epson
codes to reset the printer.

Good luck!

Most of these are available on the net somewhere, or through the Russian
SSC programme but, if not, you can threaten Epson with legal action for
selling you a printer with a hidden time-out - which is an *ILLEGAL*
practice in most Western countries - if they fail to release this
information which is necessary for you to continue using *YOUR*
equipment. Remember, you don't licence or rent the printer from Epson,
you *BUY* it from them. It is illegal for them to withhold information
which you legitimately require to operate the printer unless they have
specifically stated that the printer will require servicing after a
certain amount of usage. Certainly in the UK there is at least one
celebrated case of a person being imprisoned for selling burglar alarms
which incorporated timers designed to cause the system to indicate a
fault condition a few weeks after the warranty expired, requiring them
to service the unit - a matter of resetting the timer. This is no
different in principle from Epson's "ink-bomb".
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a ah heck when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <v2fjq0l1nq7ern4r6fs8bm5uso1i0t3c7i@4ax.com>, Ototin
<bangsit@balay.ca> writes

>I bow to your superior intellect.

Everything is relative - in your case you seem determined to demonstrate
that the issue is your own *inferior* intellect than Art's superior one
though.

I haven't had the pleasure of taking this measure for some time, but
welcome to my kill file - you should feel quite the equal of most of the
bozos in there.
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a ah heck when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The thing about money is that is always seems to seek its own level.

Some people will never feel financially fulfilled, no matter how wealthy
they are. They see it as a moving target, and each time they have more,
they spend it and are just as greedy for more. Yet others are happy
sharing that crust of burnt bread you complained about, be it the only
thing they have.

Having lived in both the "first" and "developing" world, I have
discovered that joy has very little to do with cash in the bank. Money
provides greater opportunity, but what opportunity depends upon what you
value to begin with.

Art

Ototin wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:46:11 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>OK, guys, go to town. Patent it, sell retrofitting services, make a
>>fortune, hell, I don't care. There is a lot more to life than money,
>>and Ototin, hopefully, over time, even you will figure that out.
>
>
> It always annoys me to hear people say 'there is a lot more to life
> than money' because in all likelyhood that same person who said has
> had a very enjoyable life because of having money.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:25:45 +0000, Kennedy McEwen
<rkm@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <v2fjq0l1nq7ern4r6fs8bm5uso1i0t3c7i@4ax.com>, Ototin
><bangsit@balay.ca> writes
>
>>I bow to your superior intellect.
>
>Everything is relative - in your case you seem determined to demonstrate
>that the issue is your own *inferior* intellect than Art's superior one
>though.

That's not how I see it.

>I haven't had the pleasure of taking this measure for some time, but

It was my pleasure to give you the pleasure that you had for some
time.

>welcome to my kill file - you should feel quite the equal of most of the
>bozos in there.

If you say so. After all you are quite the know-it-all.