Epson Tech Suppt Says

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I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
applies to all Epson printers.

When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and uses
a little ink.

If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will use
much more ink in it's warm up cycle.

Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that no
air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though the
head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
contamination.

They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.

They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant and
snappier result.

They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of producing.

Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7 network.
 

davy

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quote=Ivor Floppy

Wow - Epson have some magic ingredient in their inks that can detect
the
printer being switched off and stop the ink from setting? They should
tell
the rest of the world - the could make money with that.

Davy say's.
Yeah of course they do its special ink they call it EPSON INTELLIDGE
INK after the chip....thats why it's so dear.....LoL
Sorry - I couldn't resist that
 
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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official recommendation
>on turning the printer off by its power button and it applies to all Epson
>printers.
>
> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via the
> power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and uses a
> little ink.
>
> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go through
> a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will use much more
> ink in it's warm up cycle.
>
> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that no
> air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though the head
> does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
> contamination.
>

Something tells me this is total bullshit - the clean after 1 or 2 hours
doesn't happen and never has on any Epson I've used/seen; my R200 uses NO
ink during a power on test (the heads are lifted away from the service
station), and there's no difference between the heads being parked and the
printer powered on than there is with it powered down - the heads are capped
and in exactly the same position.


> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should turn
> their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it turned on
> and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.

Wow - Epson have some magic ingredient in their inks that can detect the
printer being switched off and stop the ink from setting? They should tell
the rest of the world - the could make money with that.

[..]

> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
> network.

Provided you don't use them much and burn the printhead out after 5
months/300 pages.
 

birdman

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From reading the ink cartridge box lables I see that most of the Pixma
printers use the same ink as the previous i9x generation of Canon printers,
most of which are not very good (personal experience in a color managed
setting). How are the Pixma printers anything other than old technology
repackaged as new for marketing purposes? Repackaging old technology is the
lifeblood of marketing and Canon is one of the world's leaders at the
practice. Canon should spend a fraction of what they spend on marketing on
the software that runs their devices.
 
G

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measekite wrote:
> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
> applies to all Epson printers.
>
> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
> the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and
> uses a little ink.

> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will
> use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.

Bollocks. I have an R800 and I've never seen that.


> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that
> no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though
> the head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
> contamination.

My R800 is on and the head is parked - how a printer can tell whether it's
on or off is beyond me.

>
> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
> turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
> turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.

Again, complete and utter garbage. I was told that once and decided to test
the theory. I have two R800s and I happened to have a couple of spare sets
of OEM tanks. I placed a fresh set in each machine and printed a couple of
photos (A4) with each. I then went away for a couple of months and left one
on and turned the other off. Both clogged identically.

> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
> strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
> printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant
> and snappier result.
>
> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
> of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
> expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of
> producing.
> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
> network.



--
In memory of MS MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/
 
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Ivor Floppy wrote:

> Provided you don't use them much and burn the printhead out after 5
> months/300 pages.

Sorry, but I disagree. I must have put at least 12 times that through my
i9950 and the printhead shows no sign of wearing out (I've had it a year,
too).

--
In memory of MS MVP Alex Nichol: http://www.dts-l.org/
 

BURT

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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
(snip)

> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should turn
> their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it turned on
> and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.

(snip)

Perhaps Arthur Entlich can follow up on this response if I am not quite
accurate in my critique of the above statement. My chemistry and physics
classes were, unfortunately, over 50 years ago. Crystallization occurs when
a solution of soluable salt(s) becomes supersaturated and forms crystals, a
uniquely shaped solid physical form of the salt which had been in solution
(usually aquious). This can occur with evaporation or a drop in
temperature of the liquid that had been previously heated to create a highly
saturated solution. Pigmented inks are essentially a suspension of minute
colored particles. Clogging probably occurs when the carrier liquid
undergoes a degree of evaporation and caused the pigment particles to drop
out of the suspension, clump together, and thus clog the print head.
Someone on the NG can correct me if I am wrong. If this simplified analysis
is correct, either the Epson rep doesn't understand the chemical and/or
physical qualities of his products' inks or his comments have been
inaccurately reported. If it is my error I stand corrected.
 

shooter

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What another Troll.

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
> applies to all Epson printers.
>
> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
> the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and uses
> a little ink.
>
> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will use
> much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>
> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that no
> air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though the
> head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
> contamination.
>
> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
> turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
> turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>
> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
> strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
> printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant and
> snappier result.
>
> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
> of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
> expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of producing.
>
> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
network.
 

frederick

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measekite wrote:
> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
> applies to all Epson printers.
>
> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
> the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and uses
> a little ink.
>
> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will use
> much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>
> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that no
> air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though the
> head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
> contamination.
>
> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
> turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
> turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>
> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
> strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
> printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant and
> snappier result.
>
> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
> of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
> expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of producing.
>
> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7 network.


Thanks for that. After an awful lot of waiting and mulling over the
plusses and minuses, I will get an R1800. I am well aware of the
vibrancy of dye vs pigment, and that there are potential problems with
clogging - so tips to minimise the risk are appreciated. I was swayed
to the epson, based on reviews, much discussion, and seeing the stunning
results of the R800 on photo matte paper. I have seen nothing that
appeals to me more for presenting some photography. My past experience
with dye inks on matte has given very poor results for fading -
noticeable in weeks. One of the most attractive features of matte paper
prints is a complete absense of reflection - lost when you put it under
any glass. Exposed to the air, it also is exposed to airborne dust and
grime. If one thing doesn't get them then something else will. They
aren't going to last that long.
From what I've seen, by default good pixma dye printers will almost
certainly provide closer to what most people would expect a photograph
from a lab to look like - in terms of colour saturation / vibrancy.
Although many "serious" photographers may not like this, it is
presumptuous for them to assume that this must be aesthetically
compromised, and insulting to impose the view that as this is the
preference of amateur snap-shooters, it must be in some way "inferior".
Most people are now shooting photographs with small digital cameras
which are optimised to produce images which do not accurately reproduce
reality, but produce colours and tonal range for printing photos that
look like what they expect a photo should look like. Many would be very
disappointed by the results from a "good" camera. It is no surprise that
in general printer manufacturers follow the market.
 
G

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Frederick wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
>> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
>> applies to all Epson printers.
>>
>> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off
>> via the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle
>> and uses a little ink.
>>
>> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
>> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will
>> use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>>
>> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that
>> no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though
>> the head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to
>> the contamination.
>>
>> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
>> turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
>> turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>>
>> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
>> strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
>> printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant
>> and snappier result.
>>
>> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a
>> couple of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of
>> course, I do expect the best professional results that Epson is
>> capable of producing.
>>
>> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
>> network.
>
>
>
> Thanks for that. After an awful lot of waiting and mulling over the
> plusses and minuses, I will get an R1800. I am well aware of the
> vibrancy of dye vs pigment, and that there are potential problems with
> clogging - so tips to minimise the risk are appreciated. I was swayed
> to the epson, based on reviews, much discussion, and seeing the
> stunning results of the R800 on photo matte paper.


Have you ever seen the results from the Canon i9900? Look at that
before you buy. The printer is about $150.00 cheaper and the cost of
running it are substantially less. The R1800 prints will last longer.

> I have seen nothing that appeals to me more for presenting some
> photography. My past experience with dye inks on matte has given very
> poor results for fading - noticeable in weeks. One of the most
> attractive features of matte paper prints is a complete absense of
> reflection


Epson make two low sheen papers that I may try. One is Premium Luster
and the other is Premium SemiGloss. The Luster shows a slight patern but
is smooth to the touch as Explained by Epson. The SemiGloss was
explained to me as an eggshell or satin finish.

> - lost when you put it under any glass. Exposed to the air, it also
> is exposed to airborne dust and grime. If one thing doesn't get them
> then something else will. They aren't going to last that long.
> From what I've seen, by default good pixma dye printers will almost
> certainly provide closer to what most people would expect a photograph
> from a lab to look like - in terms of colour saturation / vibrancy.
> Although many "serious" photographers may not like this, it is
> presumptuous for them to assume that this must be aesthetically
> compromised, and insulting to impose the view that as this is the
> preference of amateur snap-shooters, it must be in some way
> "inferior". Most people are now shooting photographs with small
> digital cameras which are optimised to produce images which do not
> accurately reproduce reality, but produce colours and tonal range for
> printing photos that look like what they expect a photo should look
> like. Many would be very disappointed by the results from a "good"
> camera. It is no surprise that in general printer manufacturers follow
> the market.
 

frederick

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measekite wrote:
>
>
> Frederick wrote:
>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
>>> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
>>> applies to all Epson printers.
>>>
>>> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off
>>> via the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle
>>> and uses a little ink.
>>>
>>> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
>>> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will
>>> use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>>>
>>> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that
>>> no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though
>>> the head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to
>>> the contamination.
>>>
>>> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
>>> turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
>>> turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>>>
>>> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
>>> strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
>>> printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant
>>> and snappier result.
>>>
>>> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a
>>> couple of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of
>>> course, I do expect the best professional results that Epson is
>>> capable of producing.
>>>
>>> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
>>> network.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for that. After an awful lot of waiting and mulling over the
>> plusses and minuses, I will get an R1800. I am well aware of the
>> vibrancy of dye vs pigment, and that there are potential problems with
>> clogging - so tips to minimise the risk are appreciated. I was swayed
>> to the epson, based on reviews, much discussion, and seeing the
>> stunning results of the R800 on photo matte paper.
>
>
>
> Have you ever seen the results from the Canon i9900? Look at that
> before you buy. The printer is about $150.00 cheaper and the cost of
> running it are substantially less. The R1800 prints will last longer.
>

I assume that is similar/same print engine as an i9950. If so, then yes
- looked very hard at it. They produce very nice prints. That was my
alternative choice. Either one (R1800 or i9950) has compromises
attached. Matt paper and longevity have swung me to Epson. Awaiting
delivery, but very comfortable with my choice. Price premium accepted
as an "early adopter" penalty against the i9950 which has fallen in
price a bit here in recent months. I'm sure that the R1800 will come
down in price too - possibly demand will fall when they release their
new A3 2100 replacement printer in coming months. Still, the R1800 was
about half the price a 2100 was a year ago, and is a better printer in
every way for my purposes.
Comparisons can be a little distracting. What is important for one user
may be irrelevent for someone else, and unfortunately you don't really
get to identify what some of those things are until you own one, and
have the time to familiarise yourself with how you can use it.

>> I have seen nothing that appeals to me more for presenting some
>> photography. My past experience with dye inks on matte has given very
>> poor results for fading - noticeable in weeks. One of the most
>> attractive features of matte paper prints is a complete absense of
>> reflection
>
>
>
> Epson make two low sheen papers that I may try. One is Premium Luster
> and the other is Premium SemiGloss. The Luster shows a slight patern but
> is smooth to the touch as Explained by Epson. The SemiGloss was
> explained to me as an eggshell or satin finish.
>
Have looked at semigloss lustre / pearl finishes. I would tend to never
use a gloss. These semi-gloss papers look much nicer to me both for
quick snapshots or larger prints, from a lab or from an inkjet. Matte
is something quite special and different.
 
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birdman wrote:

>From reading the ink cartridge box lables I see that most of the Pixma
>printers use the same ink as the previous i9x generation of Canon printers,
>most of which are not very good (personal experience in a color managed
>setting). How are the Pixma printers anything other than old technology
>repackaged as new for marketing purposes? Repackaging old technology is the
>lifeblood of marketing and Canon is one of the world's leaders at the
>practice. Canon should spend a fraction of what they spend on marketing on
>the software that runs their devices.
>
>

The Canon IP4000 is a great printer. The photos are vibrant and rich.
I have not had any fading in 9 months. My photos just lay around on a
desk in a well lit room. It is my understanding that the 4 color
printers fair better on fading than the 6 or 8 color printers but they
have a smaller color gamut.

>
>
>
 
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Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

>measekite wrote:
>
>
>>I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
>>recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
>>applies to all Epson printers.
>>
>>When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
>>the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and
>>uses a little ink.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
>>through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will
>>use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>>
>>
>
>Bollocks. I have an R800 and I've never seen that.
>
>
>
>
>>Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that
>>no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though
>>the head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
>>contamination.
>>
>>
>
>My R800 is on and the head is parked - how a printer can tell whether it's
>on or off is beyond me.
>
>

They use a timer chip.

>
>
>>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
>>turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
>>turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>>
>>
>
>Again, complete and utter garbage.
>
You did not have to do what Epson recommends. You can enjoy your clog.

>I was told that once and decided to test
>the theory. I have two R800s and I happened to have a couple of spare sets
>of OEM tanks. I placed a fresh set in each machine and printed a couple of
>photos (A4) with each. I then went away for a couple of months and left one
>on and turned the other off. Both clogged identically.
>
>

Try it with a 1,000 machines. You should know that you must have a
valid sampled universe to make a valid test.

>
>
>>They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
>>strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
>>printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant
>>and snappier result.
>>
>>They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
>>of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
>>expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of
>>producing.
>>Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
>>network.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
 
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Frederick wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Frederick wrote:
>>
>>> measekite wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
>>>> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and
>>>> it applies to all Epson printers.
>>>>
>>>> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off
>>>> via the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle
>>>> and uses a little ink.
>>>>
>>>> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
>>>> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it
>>>> will use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>>>>
>>>> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures
>>>> that no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even
>>>> though the head does park after printing the nozzles are still
>>>> subject to the contamination.
>>>>
>>>> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently
>>>> should turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead.
>>>> Leaving it turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments
>>>> inside the head.
>>>>
>>>> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made
>>>> great strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment
>>>> ink printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more
>>>> vibrant and snappier result.
>>>>
>>>> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a
>>>> couple of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of
>>>> course, I do expect the best professional results that Epson is
>>>> capable of producing.
>>>>
>>>> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
>>>> network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. After an awful lot of waiting and mulling over the
>>> plusses and minuses, I will get an R1800. I am well aware of the
>>> vibrancy of dye vs pigment, and that there are potential problems
>>> with clogging - so tips to minimise the risk are appreciated. I was
>>> swayed to the epson, based on reviews, much discussion, and seeing
>>> the stunning results of the R800 on photo matte paper.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you ever seen the results from the Canon i9900? Look at that
>> before you buy. The printer is about $150.00 cheaper and the cost of
>> running it are substantially less. The R1800 prints will last longer.
>>
>
> I assume that is similar/same print engine as an i9950. If so, then
> yes - looked very hard at it. They produce very nice prints. That
> was my alternative choice. Either one (R1800 or i9950) has
> compromises attached.


True


> Matt paper and longevity have swung me to Epson.


I tried Epson matte paper in my IP4000 and it worked nice. I just
prefer a litle bit of shimmer.

> Awaiting delivery, but very comfortable with my choice. Price premium
> accepted as an "early adopter" penalty against the i9950 which has
> fallen in price a bit here in recent months. I'm sure that the R1800
> will come down in price too - possibly demand will fall when they
> release their new A3 2100 replacement printer in coming months.
> Still, the R1800 was about half the price a 2100 was a year ago, and
> is a better printer in every way for my purposes.
> Comparisons can be a little distracting. What is important for one
> user may be irrelevent for someone else, and unfortunately you don't
> really get to identify what some of those things are until you own
> one, and have the time to familiarise yourself with how you can use it.


Since you compared the R1800 output with the i9950 what differences did
you see? Did you see many prints on different papers?

>
>>> I have seen nothing that appeals to me more for presenting some
>>> photography. My past experience with dye inks on matte has given
>>> very poor results for fading - noticeable in weeks.
>>

It is quite possible that light dye load inks used in the 6 and 8 color
printers fade much more rapidly than the 4 color printers.

>>> One of the most attractive features of matte paper prints is a
>>> complete absense of reflection
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Epson make two low sheen papers that I may try. One is Premium
>> Luster and the other is Premium SemiGloss. The Luster shows a slight
>> patern but is smooth to the touch as Explained by Epson. The
>> SemiGloss was explained to me as an eggshell or satin finish.
>>
> Have looked at semigloss lustre / pearl finishes. I would tend to
> never use a gloss. These semi-gloss papers look much nicer to me both
> for quick snapshots or larger prints, from a lab or from an inkjet.
> Matte is something quite special and different.
 
G

Guest

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Burt wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>(snip)
>
>
>
>>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should turn
>>their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it turned on
>>and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>>
>>
>
>(snip)
>
>Perhaps Arthur Entlich can follow up on this response if I am not quite
>accurate in my critique of the above statement. My chemistry and physics
>classes were, unfortunately, over 50 years ago. Crystallization occurs when
>a solution of soluable salt(s) becomes supersaturated and forms crystals, a
>uniquely shaped solid physical form of the salt which had been in solution
>(usually aquious). This can occur with evaporation or a drop in
>temperature of the liquid that had been previously heated to create a highly
>saturated solution. Pigmented inks are essentially a suspension of minute
>colored particles. Clogging probably occurs when the carrier liquid
>undergoes a degree of evaporation and caused the pigment particles to drop
>out of the suspension, clump together, and thus clog the print head.
>Someone on the NG can correct me if I am wrong. If this simplified analysis
>is correct, either the Epson rep doesn't understand the chemical and/or
>physical qualities of his products' inks or his comments have been
>inaccurately reported. If it is my error I stand corrected.
>
>

Dear Reverend

The Epson Technical Support Person looked up this information in their
database. It was not that one person misunderstood what she learned.
This was documented by the Epson Engineers. Maybe you need to take
another course and then reverse engineer their ink using a chemical
analysis.

>
>
>
 

frederick

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Burt wrote:

> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> (snip)
>
>
>>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should turn
>>their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it turned on
>>and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>
>
> (snip)
>
> Perhaps Arthur Entlich can follow up on this response if I am not quite
> accurate in my critique of the above statement. My chemistry and physics
> classes were, unfortunately, over 50 years ago. Crystallization occurs when
> a solution of soluable salt(s) becomes supersaturated and forms crystals, a
> uniquely shaped solid physical form of the salt which had been in solution
> (usually aquious). This can occur with evaporation or a drop in
> temperature of the liquid that had been previously heated to create a highly
> saturated solution. Pigmented inks are essentially a suspension of minute
> colored particles. Clogging probably occurs when the carrier liquid
> undergoes a degree of evaporation and caused the pigment particles to drop
> out of the suspension, clump together, and thus clog the print head.
> Someone on the NG can correct me if I am wrong. If this simplified analysis
> is correct, either the Epson rep doesn't understand the chemical and/or
> physical qualities of his products' inks or his comments have been
> inaccurately reported. If it is my error I stand corrected.
>
>
You are correct. Dried ink is most likely mainly amorphous.
I expect that the technology to keep the pigment particles suspended,
using rheology control agents and ionic dispersants, is a fairly
critical science. It rather puts me off third party pigment inks.
 

shooter

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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jynje.1184$mK.949@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Burt wrote:
>
> >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >(snip)
> >
> >
> >
> >>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
turn
> >>their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it turned
on
> >>and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >(snip)
> >
> >Perhaps Arthur Entlich can follow up on this response if I am not quite
> >accurate in my critique of the above statement. My chemistry and physics
> >classes were, unfortunately, over 50 years ago. Crystallization occurs
when
> >a solution of soluable salt(s) becomes supersaturated and forms
crystals, a
> >uniquely shaped solid physical form of the salt which had been in
solution
> >(usually aquious). This can occur with evaporation or a drop in
> >temperature of the liquid that had been previously heated to create a
highly
> >saturated solution. Pigmented inks are essentially a suspension of
minute
> >colored particles. Clogging probably occurs when the carrier liquid
> >undergoes a degree of evaporation and caused the pigment particles to
drop
> >out of the suspension, clump together, and thus clog the print head.
> >Someone on the NG can correct me if I am wrong. If this simplified
analysis
> >is correct, either the Epson rep doesn't understand the chemical and/or
> >physical qualities of his products' inks or his comments have been
> >inaccurately reported. If it is my error I stand corrected.
> >
> >
[snip]
>
> Dear Reverend
>
> The Epson Technical Support Person looked up

And what horror awaited her.
 

shooter

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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eek:inje.1178$mK.907@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>
> >measekite wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
> >>recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
> >>applies to all Epson printers.
> >>
> >>When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
> >>the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and
> >>uses a little ink.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
> >>through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will
> >>use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Bollocks. I have an R800 and I've never seen that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that
> >>no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though
> >>the head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
> >>contamination.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >My R800 is on and the head is parked - how a printer can tell whether
it's
> >on or off is beyond me.
> >
> >
>
> They use a timer chip.
>
> >
> >
> >>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
> >>turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
> >>turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Again, complete and utter garbage.
> >
> You did not have to do what Epson recommends. You can enjoy your clog.
>
> >I was told that once and decided to test
> >the theory. I have two R800s and I happened to have a couple of spare
sets
> >of OEM tanks. I placed a fresh set in each machine and printed a couple
of
> >photos (A4) with each. I then went away for a couple of months and left
one
> >on and turned the other off. Both clogged identically.
> >
> >
>
> Try it with a 1,000 machines. You should know that you must have a
> valid sampled universe to make a valid test.

Why it must be Dr Who. He used the same words last week.

>
> >
> >
> >>They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
> >>strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
> >>printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant
> >>and snappier result.
> >>
> >>They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
> >>of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
> >>expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of
> >>producing.
> >>Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
> >>network.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
 
G

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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5bnje.1171$mK.1155@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> birdman wrote:
>
>>From reading the ink cartridge box lables I see that most of the Pixma
>>printers use the same ink as the previous i9x generation of Canon
>>printers, most of which are not very good (personal experience in a color
>>managed setting). How are the Pixma printers anything other than old
>>technology repackaged as new for marketing purposes? Repackaging old
>>technology is the lifeblood of marketing and Canon is one of the world's
>>leaders at the practice. Canon should spend a fraction of what they spend
>>on marketing on the software that runs their devices.
>
> The Canon IP4000 is a great printer. The photos are vibrant and rich. I
> have not had any fading in 9 months. My photos just lay around on a desk
> in a well lit room. It is my understanding that the 4 color printers fair
> better on fading than the 6 or 8 color printers but they have a smaller
> color gamut.
>

That may be *your* understanding, but all the reviews seem to say the
opposite - and especially that Canon inks fade faster than all the others.
 

shooter

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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xqnje.1179$mK.734@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Frederick wrote:
>
> > measekite wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Frederick wrote:
> >>
> >>> measekite wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
> >>>> recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and
> >>>> it applies to all Epson printers.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off
> >>>> via the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle
> >>>> and uses a little ink.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
> >>>> through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it
> >>>> will use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
> >>>>
> >>>> Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures
> >>>> that no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even
> >>>> though the head does park after printing the nozzles are still
> >>>> subject to the contamination.
> >>>>
> >>>> They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently
> >>>> should turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead.
> >>>> Leaving it turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments
> >>>> inside the head.
> >>>>
> >>>> They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made
> >>>> great strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment
> >>>> ink printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more
> >>>> vibrant and snappier result.
> >>>>
> >>>> They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a
> >>>> couple of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of
> >>>> course, I do expect the best professional results that Epson is
> >>>> capable of producing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
> >>>> network.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for that. After an awful lot of waiting and mulling over the
> >>> plusses and minuses, I will get an R1800. I am well aware of the
> >>> vibrancy of dye vs pigment, and that there are potential problems
> >>> with clogging - so tips to minimise the risk are appreciated. I was
> >>> swayed to the epson, based on reviews, much discussion, and seeing
> >>> the stunning results of the R800 on photo matte paper.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you ever seen the results from the Canon i9900? Look at that
> >> before you buy. The printer is about $150.00 cheaper and the cost of
> >> running it are substantially less. The R1800 prints will last longer.
> >>
> >
> > I assume that is similar/same print engine as an i9950. If so, then
> > yes - looked very hard at it. They produce very nice prints. That
> > was my alternative choice. Either one (R1800 or i9950) has
> > compromises attached.
>
>
> True
>
>
> > Matt paper and longevity have swung me to Epson.
>
>
> I tried Epson matte paper in my IP4000 and it worked nice. I just
> prefer a litle bit of shimmer.

Is that a dance routine.

>
> > Awaiting delivery, but very comfortable with my choice. Price premium
> > accepted as an "early adopter" penalty against the i9950 which has
> > fallen in price a bit here in recent months. I'm sure that the R1800
> > will come down in price too - possibly demand will fall when they
> > release their new A3 2100 replacement printer in coming months.
> > Still, the R1800 was about half the price a 2100 was a year ago, and
> > is a better printer in every way for my purposes.
> > Comparisons can be a little distracting. What is important for one
> > user may be irrelevent for someone else, and unfortunately you don't
> > really get to identify what some of those things are until you own
> > one, and have the time to familiarise yourself with how you can use it.
>
>
> Since you compared the R1800 output with the i9950 what differences did
> you see? Did you see many prints on different papers?
>
> >
> >>> I have seen nothing that appeals to me more for presenting some
> >>> photography. My past experience with dye inks on matte has given
> >>> very poor results for fading - noticeable in weeks.
> >>
>
> It is quite possible that light dye load inks used in the 6 and 8 color
> printers fade much more rapidly than the 4 color printers.
>
> >>> One of the most attractive features of matte paper prints is a
> >>> complete absense of reflection
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Epson make two low sheen papers that I may try. One is Premium
> >> Luster and the other is Premium SemiGloss. The Luster shows a slight
> >> patern but is smooth to the touch as Explained by Epson. The
> >> SemiGloss was explained to me as an eggshell or satin finish.
> >>
> > Have looked at semigloss lustre / pearl finishes. I would tend to
> > never use a gloss. These semi-gloss papers look much nicer to me both
> > for quick snapshots or larger prints, from a lab or from an inkjet.
> > Matte is something quite special and different.
 

BURT

Distinguished
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"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jynje.1184$mK.949@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Burt wrote:
>
>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:T18je.1019$mK.895@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>(snip)
>>
>>
>>>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should turn
>>>their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it turned on
>>>and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>>>
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>Perhaps Arthur Entlich can follow up on this response if I am not quite
>>accurate in my critique of the above statement. My chemistry and physics
>>classes were, unfortunately, over 50 years ago. Crystallization occurs
>>when a solution of soluable salt(s) becomes supersaturated and forms
>>crystals, a uniquely shaped solid physical form of the salt which had been
>>in solution (usually aquious). This can occur with evaporation or a drop
>>in temperature of the liquid that had been previously heated to create a
>>highly saturated solution. Pigmented inks are essentially a suspension
>>of minute colored particles. Clogging probably occurs when the carrier
>>liquid undergoes a degree of evaporation and caused the pigment particles
>>to drop out of the suspension, clump together, and thus clog the print
>>head. Someone on the NG can correct me if I am wrong. If this simplified
>>analysis is correct, either the Epson rep doesn't understand the chemical
>>and/or physical qualities of his products' inks or his comments have been
>>inaccurately reported. If it is my error I stand corrected.
>
> Dear Reverend
>
> The Epson Technical Support Person looked up this information in their
> database. It was not that one person misunderstood what she learned.
> This was documented by the Epson Engineers. Maybe you need to take
> another course and then reverse engineer their ink using a chemical
> analysis.

Thank you for the honorific salutation. Sure beats the hell out of the ones
you've earned on this NG! You and your tech support person (and possibly
the individual who put that information in their database) need to brush up
on their Chem 1A-1B and Physics 6A-6B notes to differentiate between
solutions and suspensions and their resultant changes with evaporation of
their solvents or carrier liquids. I guess your MBA from Stanford also
qualifies you as an expert in physics and chemistry, or did I miss the part
of your CV that included a masters in chemistry? When you start to believe
everything a sales rep or tech support person tells you (some are very
knowledgeable and some are unwitting masters of misinformation) I have a
bridge to sell you (quoted from a previous Measekite post.) Frankly, (no
reference to Frankie) I've learned more and been able to solve more computer
and related problems by reading newsgroups and forums to see what users have
learned through THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE, not what they relate second-hand from
a sales rep or tech support person.
 

frank

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Burt wrote:
> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
...I guess your MBA from Stanford also
> qualifies you as an expert in physics and chemistry, or did I miss the part
> of your CV that included a masters in chemistry?...

Maybe you could get him to post his CV (Curriculum Vital). ;-)
Frank
 
G

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In article <5bnje.1171$mK.1155@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
measekite@yahoo.com (measekite) wrote:

> I have not had any fading in 9 months.

I would hope not! If you've had no fading in 50 years, /that's/ the time
to start enthusing. Anything sooner is premature.

> printers fair better

That's 'fare', not 'fair'.

Jon.
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You need a hoot! ;-)

Shooter wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:eek:inje.1178$mK.907@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>measekite wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I just spoke to Epson Tech Support. This is their official
>>>>recommendation on turning the printer off by its power button and it
>>>>applies to all Epson printers.
>>>>
>>>>When you turn the printer on after having previously turned it off via
>>>>the power button the printer goes through a short warm up cycle and
>>>>uses a little ink.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If you optionally leave it on all of the time the printer will go
>>>>through a long warm up (if it sat idle for 1 to 2 hours) and it will
>>>>use much more ink in it's warm up cycle.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Bollocks. I have an R800 and I've never seen that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Another reason why they recommend to turn them off is it insures that
>>>>no air or paper dust/fibers will get into the nozzles. Even though
>>>>the head does park after printing the nozzles are still subject to the
>>>>contamination.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>My R800 is on and the head is parked - how a printer can tell whether
>>>
>>>
>it's
>
>
>>>on or off is beyond me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>They use a timer chip.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>They also told me that R800/1800 users who print infrequently should
>>>>turn their printers off to avoid clogging the printhead. Leaving it
>>>>turned on and unused will crystallize the pigments inside the head.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Again, complete and utter garbage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>You did not have to do what Epson recommends. You can enjoy your clog.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I was told that once and decided to test
>>>the theory. I have two R800s and I happened to have a couple of spare
>>>
>>>
>sets
>
>
>>>of OEM tanks. I placed a fresh set in each machine and printed a couple
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>photos (A4) with each. I then went away for a couple of months and left
>>>
>>>
>one
>
>
>>>on and turned the other off. Both clogged identically.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Try it with a 1,000 machines. You should know that you must have a
>>valid sampled universe to make a valid test.
>>
>>
>
>Why it must be Dr Who. He used the same words last week.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>They also informed me, when I asked, that even though they made great
>>>>strides in their pigment ink formulations and their pigment ink
>>>>printers, their dye based printers do indeed produce a more vibrant
>>>>and snappier result.
>>>>
>>>>They are going to send me printouts on their R320 and R800 on a couple
>>>>of different papers so I can compare Epson vs Epson. Of course, I do
>>>>expect the best professional results that Epson is capable of
>>>>producing.
>>>>Base on this, I feel that Canon Pixmas are more suitable to a 24/7
>>>>network.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
 
G

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Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ivor Floppy wrote:

>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:5bnje.1171$mK.1155@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>birdman wrote:
>>
>>>From reading the ink cartridge box lables I see that most of the Pixma
>>
>>
>>>printers use the same ink as the previous i9x generation of Canon
>>>printers, most of which are not very good (personal experience in a color
>>>managed setting). How are the Pixma printers anything other than old
>>>technology repackaged as new for marketing purposes? Repackaging old
>>>technology is the lifeblood of marketing and Canon is one of the world's
>>>leaders at the practice. Canon should spend a fraction of what they spend
>>>on marketing on the software that runs their devices.
>>>
>>>
>>The Canon IP4000 is a great printer. The photos are vibrant and rich. I
>>have not had any fading in 9 months. My photos just lay around on a desk
>>in a well lit room. It is my understanding that the 4 color printers fair
>>better on fading than the 6 or 8 color printers but they have a smaller
>>color gamut.
>>
>>
>>
>
>That may be *your* understanding, but all the reviews seem to say the
>opposite - and especially that Canon inks fade faster than all the others.
>
>

Your brain must be a floppy. Everyone knows that the light dye load
inks fade faster than the heavy dye load inks. It is time for you bottle.

>
>
>
 

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