EQ2 crafting questions

[Bob]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

ok, i've read all the stuff on this newsgroup about crafting, and according
to what i've learned i should be doing everything right, but i can not seem
to make even the easiest items! i was trying to make essence of wild swing
(which is a level one combine), and the only thing i could not do is make
the main component pristine, so it had to be one level below that. anyway,
i ended up with the apprentice 2 version, which is pretty much useless
because apprentice 2 is sold at venders... so, what could i be doing wrong
here? should a level 7 artisan really fail a level 1 recipe!?!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:21:52 -0800, "bob" <dlv88@comcast.net> wrote:

>ok, i've read all the stuff on this newsgroup about crafting, and according
>to what i've learned i should be doing everything right, but i can not seem
>to make even the easiest items! i was trying to make essence of wild swing
>(which is a level one combine), and the only thing i could not do is make
>the main component pristine, so it had to be one level below that. anyway,
>i ended up with the apprentice 2 version, which is pretty much useless
>because apprentice 2 is sold at venders... so, what could i be doing wrong
>here? should a level 7 artisan really fail a level 1 recipe!?!
>

The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
just countering failures? The first tier ones push your progress up
slightly, which can be useful in speeding up the process bar to move a
little faster than the durability loss. Even so, it's going to be very
hard to get pristines while you're still an artisan. It won't be until
you're second tier crafting skills when you upgrade to your crafting
class that you'll be able to get pristines almost 100% of the time,
since they can be used to recover lost durability. BUT, you only get
second tier skills for combines within the class you choose. ( For
example, a Craftsman won't get skills that help with chemistry ) If
you want to make runes, scrolls, and so forth, choose a scholar when
you hit level 10.

By the way, since you did get a final product, you did -NOT- fail. A
failed combine means that you didn't even finish the first stage and
only got back a version of the primary ingredient that needs to be
refined again.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/

 

[Bob]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

wow, i didn't know you could use the skills as buffs. that helped alot.
thanks much for all your help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:

> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
> just countering failures?

Ack! You can use them outside of "wack-a-mole'ing" the problem icons that
pop up? Looks like I really need to read up on them more.

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On the calendar, in the box marked 1/8/2005 9:00 AM ^ Rumbledor scratched:

> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
> news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:
>
>> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
>> just countering failures?
>
> Ack! You can use them outside of "wack-a-mole'ing" the problem icons that
> pop up? Looks like I really need to read up on them more.
>

No worries. They just made some changes to the way that whole things
works. At least you don't have to unlearn anything. 🙂

Inyidd
--
Nyarlathotep casts a spell

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 17:00:20 GMT, Rumbledor
<Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote:

>Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
>news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:
>
>> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
>> just countering failures?
>
>Ack! You can use them outside of "wack-a-mole'ing" the problem icons that
>pop up? Looks like I really need to read up on them more.

Yup. Read the skill descriptions for what they do. There are only sets
of 3 for each combine type that can be used, too. The first tier
skills raise progress slightly at the cost of either power, success
chance, or durability (the latter two costs are very slight and not
worth worrying about.). The second tier skills raise durability at the
cost of either power, success chance, or progress (again, the costs
are slight compared to the benefits). As an added bonus, the skills
from this tier also raise your crafting skills through use rather than
only being able to raise them from successful end products.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/

 

[Wolfie]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:
> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
> news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:
>
>> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
>> just countering failures?
>
> Ack! You can use them outside of "wack-a-mole'ing" the problem icons
> that pop up?

Of course.

> Looks like I really need to read up on them more.

It's really not that difficult -- examine the ability icon
for a description of what it does.

Each ability has two functions: it counters events (and
you use it to "whack-a-mole") and it advances either
progress or durability for a cost (which can be power,
the other factor -- progress for durability, durability
for progress -- or success chance.)

So, say you have a "Concentrate" ability. You'd use
that whenever an event like "Distraction" occurs (i.e.,
someone bangs a door, whatever.) But additional
concentration would also allow you to convert power
to progress, so you could use it for that. (Or maybe
concentration means you're more careful, so it converts
power to durability...)

So, when you're running short of durability, you would
use a skill that increases durability. If your durability is
fine, you're use something that increases progress. And
so on. Of course, you can also "stack" buffs -- such
as using one ability to convert power to progress and
another to convert progress to durability -- where the
combination is better than the single effect. As it is
right now, up to three abilities can be in use at any
one time, in any combination.

The "skill" in "tradeskills" is figuring out which buffs do
what and for how much -- and then using them in the
manner (alone or in combinations) which allow you to
create the desired level of quality with the minimum
investment in time (including downtime regenerating
power.) Add in that you have to take in account
the random events and it's an interesting activity (at
least until you have it figured out and are craking out
the 100th ink or whatever...)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:fXUDd.224793$6w6.143175
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> Rumbledor wrote:
>> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
>> news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:
>>
>>> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
>>> just countering failures?
>>
>> Ack! You can use them outside of "wack-a-mole'ing" the problem icons
>> that pop up?
>
> Of course.
>
>> Looks like I really need to read up on them more.
>
> It's really not that difficult -- examine the ability icon
> for a description of what it does.
>
> Each ability has two functions: it counters events (and
> you use it to "whack-a-mole") and it advances either
> progress or durability for a cost (which can be power,
> the other factor -- progress for durability, durability
> for progress -- or success chance.)
>
> So, say you have a "Concentrate" ability. You'd use
> that whenever an event like "Distraction" occurs (i.e.,
> someone bangs a door, whatever.) But additional
> concentration would also allow you to convert power
> to progress, so you could use it for that. (Or maybe
> concentration means you're more careful, so it converts
> power to durability...)
>
> So, when you're running short of durability, you would
> use a skill that increases durability. If your durability is
> fine, you're use something that increases progress. And
> so on. Of course, you can also "stack" buffs -- such
> as using one ability to convert power to progress and
> another to convert progress to durability -- where the
> combination is better than the single effect. As it is
> right now, up to three abilities can be in use at any
> one time, in any combination.
>
> The "skill" in "tradeskills" is figuring out which buffs do
> what and for how much -- and then using them in the
> manner (alone or in combinations) which allow you to
> create the desired level of quality with the minimum
> investment in time (including downtime regenerating
> power.) Add in that you have to take in account
> the random events and it's an interesting activity (at
> least until you have it figured out and are craking out
> the 100th ink or whatever...)

So, is it safe to assume that if you elect to keep all three given buffs
active all the time, it will drain your power more quickly? Otherwise,
why wouldn't you keep them all up? They would always be active to
counter any events that occur, and as you said, the combination would be
better than any one.

Do I understand that correctly?

--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Wolfie]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor wrote:

> So, is it safe to assume that if you elect to keep all three given
> buffs active all the time, it will drain your power more quickly?

Just keeping one buff up that uses power will drain your power
too quickly, so yes.

> Otherwise, why wouldn't you keep them all up?

Because of the power drain, for one. Because the
combination of all three may be worse than not
using them at all, for another. And because you need
to react to events, meaning you won't get the full
effect of all of them all the time anyway (unless you
have a very good run with the RNG.)

> They would always be active to counter any events that
> occur,

But a "buff" doesn't counter events that haven't happened.
Think back to the example: you can "Concentrate" to
counter a slammed door or you can "Concentrate" to
work faster (speed progress) [or maybe it actually
increases durability, depends on the actual buff.]

Say you're using your "Concentrate" to work faster.
THEN someone slams a door -- you can still make
a mistake because of the distraction (but maybe it
wouldn't be as big a mistake as it would be otherwise.)

In game, you still take damage if you don't answer
the event in time. So you've got to do that anyway.
Using the ability as a "buff" doesn't change that.

> and as you said, the combination would be better than
> any one.

Well, in context, I think I said you'd stack buffs where
the combination is better than any one. That's true,
but it's not true for every combination. "Stacked"
buffs may be worse than not using them at all -- or
better than any one -- or any combination thereof.
That's the "fun" -- figuring out what each does and
how well they work together. And which ones to
use in which circumstances at different stages of the
process, etc.

> Do I understand that correctly?

Apparently at a high-level but not at the detail level...
EQ2's tradeskill process is fairly complicated: the
only way to really get a feel for it is to try it out.
But the simple version is: Each ability has two
roles: countering events (whack-a-mole) and
furthering either progress or durability at some
cost (power, progress/durability, success rate.)

 

[Panic]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message
news:amWDd.184597$8G4.80806@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Rumbledor wrote:
>
> > So, is it safe to assume that if you elect to keep all three given
> > buffs active all the time, it will drain your power more quickly?
>
> Just keeping one buff up that uses power will drain your power
> too quickly, so yes.
>
> > Otherwise, why wouldn't you keep them all up?

Because they don't stack any longer, so you are wasting power if you keep
more than one "Progress" or "Durability" buff up.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:05:31 GMT, "Panic" <panic@whyme.net> wrote:

>
>"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:amWDd.184597$8G4.80806@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> Rumbledor wrote:
>>
>> > So, is it safe to assume that if you elect to keep all three given
>> > buffs active all the time, it will drain your power more quickly?
>>
>> Just keeping one buff up that uses power will drain your power
>> too quickly, so yes.
>>
>> > Otherwise, why wouldn't you keep them all up?
>
>Because they don't stack any longer, so you are wasting power if you keep
>more than one "Progress" or "Durability" buff up.
>

Stacked just fine a couple hours ago.

--
Dark Tyger

Sympathy for the retailer:
http://www.actsofgord.com/index.html
"Door's to your left" -Gord
(I have no association with this site. Just thought it was funny as hell)

Protect free speech: http://stopfcc.com/

 

[Wolfie]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Panic wrote:

>>> Otherwise, why wouldn't you keep them all up?
>
> Because they don't stack any longer, so you are wasting power if you
> keep more than one "Progress" or "Durability" buff up.

Mine still stack -- both in appearance and effect.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 02:21:52 -0800, "bob" <dlv88@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>ok, i've read all the stuff on this newsgroup about crafting, and
>>according to what i've learned i should be doing everything right, but
>>i can not seem to make even the easiest items! i was trying to make
>>essence of wild swing (which is a level one combine), and the only
>>thing i could not do is make the main component pristine, so it had to
>>be one level below that. anyway, i ended up with the apprentice 2
>>version, which is pretty much useless because apprentice 2 is sold at
>>venders... so, what could i be doing wrong here? should a level 7
>>artisan really fail a level 1 recipe!?!
>>
>
> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
> just countering failures? The first tier ones push your progress up
> slightly, which can be useful in speeding up the process bar to move a
> little faster than the durability loss. Even so, it's going to be very
> hard to get pristines while you're still an artisan. It won't be until
> you're second tier crafting skills when you upgrade to your crafting
> class that you'll be able to get pristines almost 100% of the time,
> since they can be used to recover lost durability. BUT, you only get
> second tier skills for combines within the class you choose. ( For
> example, a Craftsman won't get skills that help with chemistry ) If
> you want to make runes, scrolls, and so forth, choose a scholar when
> you hit level 10.
>
> By the way, since you did get a final product, you did -NOT- fail. A
> failed combine means that you didn't even finish the first stage and
> only got back a version of the primary ingredient that needs to be
> refined again.
>

At the moment, the crafting skills are messed up. It is significantly
harder now to force pristines than it was prior to the patch. Not
impossible, but quite a bit harder, at least in Alchemy, and I have heard
the same for some of the other tradeskills as well. I am hoping they fix
this quickly.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Rumbledor <Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns95D887B413F35Rumbledorhotmailcom@204.127.199.17:

> "Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:fXUDd.224793$6w6.143175
> @tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
>
>> Rumbledor wrote:
>>> Dark Tyger <darktiger@somewhere.net> wrote in
>>> news:tssvt0dooniknl3g8vlhv4a4d1gebscqrk@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> The big question is are you using the crafting skills for more than
>>>> just countering failures?
>>>
>>> Ack! You can use them outside of "wack-a-mole'ing" the problem icons
>>> that pop up?
>>
>> Of course.
>>
>>> Looks like I really need to read up on them more.
>>
>> It's really not that difficult -- examine the ability icon
>> for a description of what it does.
>>
>> Each ability has two functions: it counters events (and
>> you use it to "whack-a-mole") and it advances either
>> progress or durability for a cost (which can be power, the other
>> factor -- progress for durability, durability for progress -- or
>> success chance.)
>>
>> So, say you have a "Concentrate" ability. You'd use
>> that whenever an event like "Distraction" occurs (i.e., someone bangs
>> a door, whatever.) But additional concentration would also allow you
>> to convert power to progress, so you could use it for that. (Or maybe
>> concentration means you're more careful, so it converts
>> power to durability...)
>>
>> So, when you're running short of durability, you would
>> use a skill that increases durability. If your durability is
>> fine, you're use something that increases progress. And
>> so on. Of course, you can also "stack" buffs -- such
>> as using one ability to convert power to progress and
>> another to convert progress to durability -- where the
>> combination is better than the single effect. As it is
>> right now, up to three abilities can be in use at any
>> one time, in any combination.
>>
>> The "skill" in "tradeskills" is figuring out which buffs do
>> what and for how much -- and then using them in the
>> manner (alone or in combinations) which allow you to
>> create the desired level of quality with the minimum
>> investment in time (including downtime regenerating
>> power.) Add in that you have to take in account
>> the random events and it's an interesting activity (at
>> least until you have it figured out and are craking out the 100th ink
>> or whatever...)
>
> So, is it safe to assume that if you elect to keep all three given
buffs
> active all the time, it will drain your power more quickly? Otherwise,
> why wouldn't you keep them all up? They would always be active to
> counter any events that occur, and as you said, the combination would
be
> better than any one.
>
> Do I understand that correctly?
>

Some of the skills actually increas power in exchange for losing
durability or progress. For the most part however, you will lose power
rather rapidly if you use the skills a lot. Another thing to keep in
mind is that with the last patch, they just messed up some of the skills.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

"Wolfie" <dbgbdwolf@gte.net> wrote in news:MtXDd.224861$6w6.90396
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> Panic wrote:
>
>>>> Otherwise, why wouldn't you keep them all up?
>>
>> Because they don't stack any longer, so you are wasting power if you
>> keep more than one "Progress" or "Durability" buff up.
>
> Mine still stack -- both in appearance and effect.
>
>

Yep, still stack just fine, just work quite differently from the way they
did prior to the patch.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 19 Scholar

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 10 Jan 2005 15:51:26 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>At the moment, the crafting skills are messed up. It is significantly
>harder now to force pristines than it was prior to the patch. Not
>impossible, but quite a bit harder, at least in Alchemy, and I have heard
>the same for some of the other tradeskills as well. I am hoping they fix
>this quickly.

It's by design - in a patch note, the designer's comment that
Pristine's were never meant to be the default standard, it was
supposed to be very hard to achieve, but they'd messed it up and
people were knocking pristines out with no problem.

They changed this.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 03:42:48 GMT, Fazza wrote:

>Basically what i'm saying is ... as an item gets easier to make so
>should the time to make it get shorter.

But it does, slightly. Your success rate is higher, so it takes fewer rounds
to complete an item.

Crafting is just like adventuring. Sometimes you need to go through a
tedious, time consuming, and totally predictable process to get to the
reward. If you could make a leather stretch in 2 seconds, as you propose,
the market would be flooded with leather items.

Adventuring and crafting is work, hard work. And "hard" sometimes means time
consuming and tedious. I think this is how it should be.

It is strange, though, that we let the game industry take away our leisure
time this way 🙂
--
Henrik Dissing
Vork - Dwarven Guardian on Highkeep

(e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

On 11 Jan 2005 15:57:09 GMT, Graeme Faelban
<RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:

>> Basically what i'm saying is ... as an item gets easier to make so
>> should the time to make it get shorter.

>It does actually. The lower level items require less overall progress to
>finish, and, as your skill level increases, your chances of getting good
>results on each turn get better, raising your chances of getting good
>progress on each turn. The higher level items require a lot more
>progress overall, and, you are less likely to get good results on any
>given turn, It is still damned annoying, I do agree with that.

Yes, but it's still too long. Even something that is trivial is still
going to take you 25-30 seconds to create. This is just too long to
pump out raw materials which you need en mass.

This is how it should be:

Trivial: 1 second
Extremely Difficult: 60 seconds

I'm sick of going down there to make a few items and it taking me an
hour and a half.

They also need to put a bank in the tradeskill zones.

I had a whole list of things that I thought needed changing that would
improve tradeskills but i've lost it.

Cheers,

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Fazza <gjf_fazza@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:3ab9u0pmtas1m722e7e8j8ndhisuq2qvlh@4ax.com:

> On 11 Jan 2005 15:57:09 GMT, Graeme Faelban
> <RichardRapier@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>> Basically what i'm saying is ... as an item gets easier to make so
>>> should the time to make it get shorter.
>
>>It does actually. The lower level items require less overall progress
>>to finish, and, as your skill level increases, your chances of getting
>>good results on each turn get better, raising your chances of getting
>>good progress on each turn. The higher level items require a lot more
>>progress overall, and, you are less likely to get good results on any
>>given turn, It is still damned annoying, I do agree with that.
>
> Yes, but it's still too long. Even something that is trivial is still
> going to take you 25-30 seconds to create. This is just too long to
> pump out raw materials which you need en mass.
>
> This is how it should be:
>
> Trivial: 1 second
> Extremely Difficult: 60 seconds
>
> I'm sick of going down there to make a few items and it taking me an
> hour and a half.
>
> They also need to put a bank in the tradeskill zones.
>
> I had a whole list of things that I thought needed changing that would
> improve tradeskills but i've lost it.
>

I was not disagreeing with that sentiment, merely saying that the
mechanics are there for the amount of time to create an item to change
based on how difficult it is to make. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree,
tradeskilling is tedious as all getout. This is true in both EQ1 and EQ2
by the way. Overall, I'd say it is more rewarding in EQ2, it is far
easier to get to a point of making useful items, if you level your
tradeskill along with your adventure level at about the same rate.

--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Ancient Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 69 seasons

On Steamfont in <Insanity Plea>
Graeme, 21 Dwarven Mystic, 20 Sage