Esteem Question

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Here's the text:
Esteem
Action Modifier (Common)
Only usable at the end of a successful (D) action directed at the Methuselah
with the Edge. You gain the Edge.

Here's my question:
What other (D) actions directed at Methuselahs are there, besides bleeding?

Thanks!

Neil
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 02:04:31 GMT, "Name" <name@name.com> wrote:

>Here's the text:
>Esteem
>Action Modifier (Common)
>Only usable at the end of a successful (D) action directed at the Methuselah
>with the Edge. You gain the Edge.

>Here's my question:
>What other (D) actions directed at Methuselahs are there, besides bleeding?

All (D) actions are directed at Methuselahs.

I believe you are asking for which (D) actions are not also targetting
cards in play, cards in hand, cards in deck, cards in crypt, cards in
ash heap, or cards in uncontrolled region.

There is no useful distinction to be made in this fashion.

Fifth Tradition is a (D) action if the receiving vampire is controlled
by someone else and will gain you the Edge if you play Esteem because
they had the Edge.




Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> >Here's my question:
> >What other (D) actions directed at Methuselahs are there, besides
bleeding?
>
> All (D) actions are directed at Methuselahs.
>

The obvious one that came to mind reading this card for the first time
is Enticement.

Bleed, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem etc etc.

Nasty nasty combination.

David V Vega
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The Lasombra <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tl7a21hnres7gpti9hck3tqk28efq5f3d4@4ax.com...

> All (D) actions are directed at Methuselahs.
>
> I believe you are asking for which (D) actions are not also targetting
> cards in play, cards in hand, cards in deck, cards in crypt, cards in
> ash heap, or cards in uncontrolled region.

Thanks for the quick reply.

You're right, I thought there was a difference between something directed at
a Methuselah and something directed at a card the Methuselah controls.

I looked through the on-line rulebook and found this in the "Resolve Any
Block Attempts" section 6.2.2: "If the action targets another Methuselah (or
something controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is called
directed, and the Methuselah who is the target (or controls the target) of
the action may use her ready untapped minions to attempt to block the
action. If the action is not directed at another Methuselah (or at something
controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is called undirected . .
.."

See how it differentiates between an action directed at another Methuselah
and something controlled by another Methuselah? This would suggest that an
action directed at a Methuselah's cards is not the same thing as an action
directed at a Methuselah.

Admittedly the paragraph goes on to say, "As a convenience, when a card
describes an action that is typically directed at another Methuselah, the
card's text will usually include a (D) symbol as a reminder that the action
is typically directed" which kind of suggests what you are saying.

In the glossary a directed action is described as: "Directed Action: An
action of one Methuselah's minion that directly affects another single
Methuselah or her minions or other cards she controls." Which also could be
read to suggest that there is a difference between an action directed at a
Methuselah and an action directed at one of his cards.

I guess I'm wondering now if some of this needs some rewording.

Neil, who needs to get out more
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 1 Mar 2005 18:26:29 -0800, "quetzalcoatl" <david@vega.id.au> wrote:

>> >Here's my question:
>> >What other (D) actions directed at Methuselahs are there, besides
>bleeding?
>>
>> All (D) actions are directed at Methuselahs.
>>
>
>The obvious one that came to mind reading this card for the first time
>is Enticement.
>
>Bleed, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem etc etc.
>
>Nasty nasty combination.
>
>David V Vega

Too bad it wont work.

In order to play esteem, the D action has to be performed against
someone with the edge. See where I'm going here?

In order to perform Enticement, *YOU* have to be holding the edge in
the first place. Now, unless you can pull off some miracle stunt
here... 😉
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

salem wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:08:16 -0500, The Lasombra
> <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> scrawled:
>
> >I believe you are asking for which (D) actions are not also
targetting
> >cards in play, cards in hand, cards in deck, cards in crypt, cards
in
> >ash heap, or cards in uncontrolled region.
>
> as far as i can recall, actions taken that target the ash heap are
> undirected, regardless of who 'owns' the ash heap (as no methuselah
> 'controls' the ash heaps).

Quoting LSJ:

"A player "controls" her hand, library, uncontrolled region, and
crypt (the hidden cards) for purposes of figuring out if an action is
directed or not, but not her ash heap."

> salem

-John Flournoy
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Name wrote:

> I looked through the on-line rulebook and found this in the "Resolve
Any
> Block Attempts" section 6.2.2: "If the action targets another
Methuselah (or
> something controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is
called
> directed, and the Methuselah who is the target (or controls the
target) of
> the action may use her ready untapped minions to attempt to block the
> action. If the action is not directed at another Methuselah (or at
something
> controlled by another Methuselah), then the action is called
undirected . .
> ."
>
> See how it differentiates between an action directed at another
Methuselah
> and something controlled by another Methuselah? This would suggest
that an
> action directed at a Methuselah's cards is not the same thing as an
action
> directed at a Methuselah.

You are mistaking clarification/reminder text for differentiation.

If an action directed at a card a Methuselah controls is actually a
different thing than an action directed at a Methuselah, there would
presumably be some mention, somewhere in the rules, of exactly what the
difference is.

Instead, the two subsets (at a Meth or at a Meth's card) are defined as
both being "Directed Action"s without any difference in effect,
terminology or how they get handled.

> In the glossary a directed action is described as: "Directed Action:
An
> action of one Methuselah's minion that directly affects another
single
> Methuselah or her minions or other cards she controls." Which also
could be
> read to suggest that there is a difference between an action directed
at a
> Methuselah and an action directed at one of his cards.

Except again, nowhere does anything in the rules provide an explanation
to what the hypothetical difference might be; the rules are actually
saying 'there's NO difference between these two, they're both 'directed
actions'.

And has been mentioned in other threads: There doesn't seem to be any
action targetting a Methuselah (instead of his cards) that isn't a
bleed; if the rules meant to word things as:

(an action taken against a Methuselah) or (against a card controlled by
a Methuselah)

instead of an action taken against ((a Methuselah) or (a card he
controls))

....in the first instance it would just read 'a bleed, or an action
against a card a Methuselah controls'.

> I guess I'm wondering now if some of this needs some rewording.
>
> Neil, who needs to get out more

-John Flournoy
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> >The obvious one that came to mind reading this card for the first time
> >is Enticement.
> >
> >Bleed, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem etc etc.
> >
> >Nasty nasty combination.
> >
> >David V Vega
>
> Too bad it wont work.
>
> In order to play esteem, the D action has to be performed against
> someone with the edge. See where I'm going here?
>

Regain the Upper Hand (Voter Cap), Temptation/Corruption+Esteem,
Enticement.

Repeat ad nauseum. Combos nicely with Form of Corruption. Gives you bloat,
forward progress, and minion steal.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Otto Koskinen" <x@x.com> wrote in message
news:nbea21hs0invckudjpq10uossq6kn0ehji@4ax.com...
> On 1 Mar 2005 18:26:29 -0800, "quetzalcoatl" <david@vega.id.au> wrote:
>
>>> >Here's my question:
>>> >What other (D) actions directed at Methuselahs are there, besides
>>bleeding?
>>>
>>> All (D) actions are directed at Methuselahs.
>>>
>>
>>The obvious one that came to mind reading this card for the first time
>>is Enticement.
>>
>>Bleed, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem, Entice + Esteem etc etc.
>>
>>Nasty nasty combination.
>>
>>David V Vega
>
> Too bad it wont work.
>
> In order to play esteem, the D action has to be performed against
> someone with the edge. See where I'm going here?
>
> In order to perform Enticement, *YOU* have to be holding the edge in
> the first place. Now, unless you can pull off some miracle stunt
> here... 😉


Could toss in Sargon a fortitude card and have him hunt between each of the
entice actions.

so Bleed, entice, hunt/freakdrive , entice, hunt/freak drive, repeat

Raille
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:08:16 -0500, The Lasombra
<TheLasombra@hotmail.com> scrawled:

>I believe you are asking for which (D) actions are not also targetting
>cards in play, cards in hand, cards in deck, cards in crypt, cards in
>ash heap, or cards in uncontrolled region.

as far as i can recall, actions taken that target the ash heap are
undirected, regardless of who 'owns' the ash heap (as no methuselah
'controls' the ash heaps).

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)