News EVGA Abandons the GPU Market, Reportedly Citing Conflicts With Nvidia

[Makaveli]

Not everybody that is in the market for a card is going to be a "die hard" Nvidia fan though. Most people are fans of bang for the buck and a lot of people are very sensitive to emotional purchasing, which means if they are EVGA loyalists they might very well consider blacklisting Nvidia for at least one generation depending on future developments.

The majority of people that buy EVGA gpu's I would not consider "Bang for buck users" since EVGA gpu's tend to me more expensive than reference models.

 

[-Fran-]

it was not that simple. remember XFX starts as nvidia exclusive partner. they were regarded as one of nvidia best along side EVGA. some people even regarded them to be even better than EVGA. XFX able to get where they are most likely because of the support they get from nvidia. else they will be just another nvidia partner that rarely being heard of. when they start to sell competitor hardware then of course nvidia will not going to like it. AMD probably will take give other partner more priority as well if Sapphire struck a deal to sell nvidia GPU.

funny thing is they said something like "GTX480 and GTX470 are upon us, but perhaps the time has come to Ferm up who really has the big Guns." in 2010 and yet in 2012 they almost go under because they no longer sell nvidia GPU.

No, it was that simple:
1- XFX wants to make AMD cards.
2- nVidia says "you stay exclusive or you leave".
3- XFX leaves.

And this was right before nVidia started making their own reference cards and GPP was put in the works, probably, because of this (although this was announced circa 2018, so maybe not). You could also argue nVidia started making "FE" cards with Fermi (GTX400 series) as those were not initially made by any of their partners and instead used Foxxcon/BYD. They made a distinction with FE cards though, as they no longer were "reference" as before and partners could not copy or use their design. I believe up to that point, the cards nVidia was making were available to partners as actual reference cards.

As for why XFX almost went bankrupt or didn't take back the "lead"... Well, I've never liked XFX as I had to deal with their GeForce4 ti models and how their heat sinks had defective screws that could make them fall off during operation; I fixed a few of those from friends of mine back when I was still in Uni. Also, not a trivial thing, going with AMD: Sapphire is just too good on AMD's camp and it's EVGA's equivalent in a lot of regards (except customer service, sadly). If EVGA wanted to make AMD cards (circling back to that), Sapphire would still be top dog on AMD's front for a good while. Their cards/designs are just that good and while I trust EVGA would do great there, they will have an uphill battle.

Anyway, nVidia won't even feel a dent here. In fact, as I said originally, I'm sure nVidia will use this opportunity to double down and say "AIBs are not trust worthy" and start making their own cards and control their market end to end. At the end of the day, all HW manufacturers want to be Apple.

Regards.

 

[ottonis]

One thing that really strikes me is that they are jumping ship just mere weeks away from announcement / release of new Rtx 4000 series. At this stage, EVGA must have already stockpiled a lot of new GPUs from nVidia and have already finished construction of their boards, just entering mass production of GPU cards.

Nvidia must have done something exceptionally unethical in order for EVGA to feel forced to break up all bonds and get rid of all their work and material so close to the release date.

 

[TerryLaze]

One thing that really strikes me is that they are jumping ship just mere weeks away from announcement / release of new Rtx 4000 series. At this stage, EVGA must have already stockpiled a lot of new GPUs from nVidia and have already finished construction of their boards, just entering mass production of GPU cards.

Nvidia must have done something exceptionally unethical in order for EVGA to feel forced to break up all bonds and get rid of all their work and material so close to the release date.

It was already decided in April, evga has released test boards for 4000 but I doubt they did anything more than that.

 

[saunupe1911]

WTF!!!! I love EVGA!!! Highly demanded Cards will be impossible to get now

 

[SunMaster]

EVGA saying they don't want to "betray" nVidia by going with AMD or Intel is because THEY KNOW nVidia "does not forgive, does not forget".

Why on earth would it matter whether nVidia forgets or not. EVGA is telling nvidia to go f** itself by abandoning it - for ethical reasons. It's a way of outing nVidia as an unethical company, if anything, by saying "we're not sinking to your low standards".

 

[spongiemaster]

The actual source is Games Nexus, who did an actual interview with EVGAs. In their video Steve Burke says they have no current plan (if I remember correctly) , not that there won't ever be one in the future.

Jay was there too, as was Jon Peddie and probably some others. It was a group interview, anyone that was there heard everything.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That is very optimistic thinking. AMD already has a premium AIB in Sapphire, along with plenty of others. It doesn't need EVGA and EVGA entering a crowded market will not help profits. It will also sour relations between AMD and its existing AIBs.

It sounds more like EVGA would rather compete with Corsair and other sellers of PSUs.

Time will tell, I think AMD could get more GPU Waffer Allocation from TSMC in the future for eVGA without cutting into any existing allocation for their existing AIB's.

Remember XFX also defected from nVIDIA to AMD back in the day and it worked out for them.

It's AMD's perogative as to who gets welcomed into their AIB partner clubs, not Sapphire.

 

[Darkbreeze]

They won't be missed by me. I bought 2 of their cards a few years ago for myself and my wife and they both didn't make it through the first year. They are cheap cards but they don't last long enough to be worth it.
They have been outdone by a lot of other companies. I've since bought PNY, gigabyte and Asus cards and they all lasted until I replaced them by choice as an upgrade and I was even able to recoup some of the cost by selling the used ones on eBay.

What are you even talking about? EVGA cards are usually some of the most expensive in every class in which they compete, and are generally among the best reviewed and highest quality. I've never had a single EVGA card from a GT 710 all the way up to the RTX 3080 ti I installed for a customer last year, fail prematurely, whether it was for me or a customer. Now, of course they can fail, and of course my experiences are not an enormous sampling, but I've probably purchased as many EVGA graphics cards as the next ten people considering they aren't all for myself so it also doesn't say nothing either. And, I've definitely had my share of Sapphire, XFX, MSI, PNY, ASUS and Gigabyte cards that HAVE failed. As for PNY, I wouldn't buy a single product they sell other than their Quattro and RTX workstation cards, when appropriate given the use case, but these others are all somewhat equal.

What really makes EVGA stand out is that they've been doing this longer than pretty much anybody else except maybe MSI, and their customer service is unequaled. They definitely didn't make any "cheap cards". Where that idea comes from bewilders me.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The biggest hurdle to this will be AMD existing partners. At best EVGA will be another XFX. Also to maintain the service and quality they have been providing they need money. XFX can't keep the same reputation they once had when they still selling nvidia gpu after they go with AMD only. In fact in 2012 they almost go under because AMD already sell a lot less gpu than nvidia and they have to compete with several existing AMD partner as well. For most partners that sell nvidia gpu they rather go with nvidia scheme rather than completely losing the ability to sell nvidia gpu.

That's why AMD has been building more cost effective to manufacture GPU, they realize they need larger margins to keep their AIB partners happy and profitable.

It's not like AMD hasn't been learning from past mistakes either.

Most partners that sell nVIDIA GPU's as well as AMD GPU's are partners that already double dip on the CPU side.

ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, ASRock. They all Double Dip with Intel.

For them, to double dip on the dGPU side is "To be Expected".

 

[KanataSD]

Crazy I usually always buy EVGA GPUs I wonder how they will survive without that business. I did spend almost 2k on their 3080ti so I guess they will probably have cash for a while ripping everyone off. Now that the demand is gone I guess they don't care anymore.

Their margins are very small, they've even been taking a loss this year which is what probably hit the final nail that lead to this decision.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I can agree on that point of view. But I have one query.

If we see this from other perspective, could it also be possible that NVIDIA may also attempt to bring in new partners to the North American market to fill EVGA's void, such as GALAX (Galaxy), or Colorful, which are both major graphics card OEMs in the Chinese market ?

It will now fall on them to match the design and quality standards EVGA established. I speculate EVGA's exit will have minimal impact on NVIDIA's bottom-line, as those in the market for a GeForce graphics card will ultimately buy one from whichever brand, regardless.

On some other note/thoughts, if one were to speculate once again, the company could increase its presence in the prebuilt notebook and gaming peripherals businesses, and probably even ride the growth-cycle in the power-supply market with ATX 3.0 and PCIe Gen 5. Since Graphics cards made up over three-quarters of EVGA's revenue.

Next-generation high-end graphics cards are expected to trigger upgrades among those with PSUs 4 years or older, as older PSUs, particularly mainstream ones, will find it hard to deal with the power excursions (spikes) of high-end PCIe Gen 5 graphics cards. The company could also retain its PCB engineering team to further develop its motherboard business. But all these are just speculation.

Unless EVGA significantly invests in its other businesses, it's done. Game over.

I can't answer any of that, but what I CAN say is that if Nvidia were to be intentionally (Or even semi-intentionally) trying to eliminate specific partners with the express purpose of bringing in other foreign partners, then that ought to be the the one thing that makes every customer (Especially if you're in a "western" country) seriously rethink whether they want to continue giving them their business. Not that I have anything against Galax, Colorful, Zotac, etc., but I am sure as hell not interested in replacing US based companies with additional Asian companies. That's just got too many red flags attached to it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The situation with XFX are not the same as EVGA. The reason XFX decided to ditch nvidia is completely different than EVGA. if anything they probably regret their initial decision because at one point the company almost go under because of that. And after being AMD exclusive partner they did not end up being one of AMD top partner either like they did when they still sell nvidia only.

And yet XFX remains a AMD partner after all these years.

Jay was there too, as was Jon Peddie and probably some others. It was a group interview, anyone that was there heard everything.

According to Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus, it was a group of 3 people who interviewed EVGA CEO Andrew Han.

• Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus
• Jay from Jays2Cents
• Jon Peddie of Jon Peddie Research

That's a very narrow group of media/outsiders to pick from to do your big interview.

 

[SunMaster]

Jay was there too, as was Jon Peddie and probably some others. It was a group interview, anyone that was there heard everything.

I was not aware of that.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The majority of people that buy EVGA gpu's I would not consider "Bang for buck users" since EVGA gpu's tend to me more expensive than reference models.

What "reference" models are you referring to? Because as somebody already stated earlier, Nvidia's FE cards are NOT "reference models". And I very clearly did not say they were the best budget options, meaning for a bit less money you can get a card that does "ok" as with some brands lower end product lines or with some AMD cards that actually ARE "reference" designs. I said bang for the buck, bang being the important criteria here. Bang for the buck people are willing to pay a little more for a card if it means they are going to get ten or fifteen percent more performance than they would have for some other card that might have saved them twenty five bucks.

But more importantly, you clearly did not even actually read or at least did not understand what I said, because I said "Not everybody that is in the market for a card is going to be a "die hard" Nvidia fan though". I said nothing about EVGA in that statement. So you are barking where there isn't even a tree, much less the wrong one.

 

[Darkbreeze]

And yet XFX remains a AMD partner after all these years.


According to Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus, it was a group of 3 people who interviewed EVGA CEO Andrew Han.

• Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus
• Jay from Jays2Cents
• Jon Peddie of Jon Peddie Research

That's a very narrow group of media/outsiders to pick from to do your big interview.

Not really since those are some of the loudest voices at the technology social media table, and will not only reach the most users but will reach a whole lot of users that already hang on nearly every word one of these guys says. Which admittedly, is rather sad at times, but it is what it is. Not by accident they picked those individuals.

 

[Darkbreeze]

So the other consideration I have is that while they said they are not pursuing any NEW product lines, they did not say they were adverse to expanding production and designs for product lines they ALREADY do, just to smaller degree, like motherboards, cases, fans and other accessories. They already have production facilities in place for these things and maybe they intend to expand already existing product lines to make up for killing off graphics cards. I mean, that still sucks, but at least it doesn't portend a death knell for them. And of course as mentioned, they might still assemble boards for some of the other manufacturers rather than for themselves.

 

[drtweak]

Nooo. EVGA has been the only maker i have been buying from for a very long time.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Nooo. EVGA has been the only maker i have been buying from for a very long time.

So say we all. (Well, a lot of us anyhow).

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I'm not shocked the EVGA has terminated their relationship with Nvidia. Pretty much every company that has done business with them has permanently severed ties with them.

Apple quit doing business with them over faulty GPU's which Nvidia refused to cover. Sony used them with the PlayStation 3 and it was a one and done deal. Supposedly, Nintendo isn't willing to update the Nintendo Switch with an Nvidia refresh. Rumors suggest that there has been tensions between the two.

Microsoft partnered with Nvidia on the original XBOX in 2002. That relationship ended and Microsoft, Sony, Apple have all gone to AMD.

 

[chalabam]

Out of nothing, I suspect that this follows financial difficulties caused by the fall of the crypto market

 

[Darkbreeze]

I doubt it. These problems began way before that was even on the horizon.

 

[-Fran-]

Why on earth would it matter whether nVidia forgets or not. EVGA is telling nvidia to go f** itself by abandoning it - for ethical reasons. It's a way of outing nVidia as an unethical company, if anything, by saying "we're not sinking to your low standards".

Not quite. There's more "shades of gray" in what EVGA is doing. As I mentioned, and this is from listening to Jay, Linus and Steve (GN): if EVGA and nVidia want to rebuild the bridge, that will ultimately be if EVGA does not go to AMD or Intel. Whether nVidia likes it or not, a lot of its discrete GPU creed is thanks to EVGA (and its partners). As you say, and I agree, this is a move in order to try and patch things up with nVidia, which clearly did not work internally, so I'm guessing EVGA is relying on the public eye to assess and pressure nVidia to reconsider and help EVGA make nVidia understand what they've been trying to talk out with them. [edit: I tried re-wording this a bit as I couldn't quite convey the message I wanted, lol]

If you want* a dumb parallel, this is the equivalent of breaking up with someone abusive, but staying single in hopes they take this as a wake up call and change for the better. What are the odds of that? Knowing nVidia? Considering they actually gave up on GPP due to consumer pressure, chances are really low, but not zero. That's what EVGA is, more than likely, counting on.

This is very drama-like and 4D-chess, but that's what happens when one actor needs to depend on public opinion in order to be heard. No Company wants to go there, I'm sure. And nVidia is not new to this rodeo. Things do start piling up at some point and nVidia is losing face hard. Independent on whether or not this works for EVGA the way they want, it still puts nVidia under the spotlight. But on a stage they had no intention of being on.

Regards.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

According to Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus, it was a group of 3 people who interviewed EVGA CEO Andrew Han.

• Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus
• Jay from Jays2Cents
• Jon Peddie of Jon Peddie Research

That's a very narrow group of media/outsiders to pick from to do your big interview.

Yeah, it's a very interesting way of announcing a breakup. A very PUBLIC way of doing it as well. Some (most?) employees likely found out via some YouTubers, just before the meeting with the CEO Andrew Han. Or at least that's how it sounded; maybe they found out just before the video embargo was lifted? I mean, I guess he couldn't reasonably invite 20 or 50 publications to a briefing and then expect it not to leak. With only three people in attendance, and perhaps because there was some trust between them, that's a way to control the situation.

But then it goes back to what Steve at GN was saying about there being some discrepancies. EVGA's CEO is basically killing 80% of his business. He won't retire. He won't sell. He won't even do any other GPUs (ie, AMD or Intel) — possibly because he just feels the entire GPU market is set for a major downturn. That's a lot of really odd decisions for a CEO to make that ultimately point to EVGA closing up shop, or at least massively downsizing. And it was all done after the major profits of the past two years were over. Jay said he felt like he spent four hours trying to talk Andrew out of this move. That suggests he also has some major concerns with what's happening.

Personally, I think it's stupid to shut down the GPU division like this and refuse to sell. Even if EVGA was sold off to someone "unethical," that might hurt Andrew Han's feelings or whatever, but hardly anyone really thinks of him when they think of EVGA. It's just a company that does decent graphics cards and some other PC hardware to most of us. Selling the company couldn't possibly be any worse for the current employees AFAICT. Because it looks as though 80% of them will have to find a different job in the near future, and a new owner almost certainly wouldn't be doing anything worse than that.

I don't see how EVGA gets through this without ending up where BFG went. And how much sense would it make for EVGA to continue making PSUs under their current brand? Change the name to EPSU, because there's no longer any VGA. PSUs might have higher margins, but they're also far less exciting and far lower sales compared to GPUs. EVGA was 40% of the US Nvidia market. That's massive. If it made 20% profit off each card sold, compared to 60% profit off each PSU sold, the GPU division still would have brought in far more money.

But this is the decision of the CEO, since EVGA isn't publicly traded. He can do whatever he wants, and right now he apparently wants to spit in Nvidia's face, let the whole world know that he thinks Nvidia is a bad business partner, and take his GPU ball and go home. I don't doubt that it's very hard at times to do business with Nvidia. I guess not doing business at all will be better. Or if EVGA now changes course and decides to start doing AMD or Intel cards, or sells off the company, then maybe this was just a big PR move to get the appropriate buyer or partner or whatever. We'll see.

 

[-Fran-]

Yeah, it's a very interesting way of announcing a breakup. A very PUBLIC way of doing it as well. Some (most?) employees likely found out via some YouTubers, just before the meeting with the CEO Andrew Han. Or at least that's how it sounded; maybe they found out just before the video embargo was lifted? I mean, I guess he couldn't reasonably invite 20 or 50 publications to a briefing and then expect it not to leak. With only three people in attendance, and perhaps because there was some trust between them, that's a way to control the situation.

But then it goes back to what Steve at GN was saying about there being some discrepancies. EVGA's CEO is basically killing 80% of his business. He won't retire. He won't sell. He won't even do any other GPUs (ie, AMD or Intel) — possibly because he just feels the entire GPU market is set for a major downturn. That's a lot of really odd decisions for a CEO to make that ultimately point to EVGA closing up shop, or at least massively downsizing. And it was all done after the major profits of the past two years were over. Jay said he felt like he spent four hours trying to talk Andrew out of this move. That suggests he also has some major concerns with what's happening.

Personally, I think it's stupid to shut down the GPU division like this and refuse to sell. Even if EVGA was sold off to someone "unethical," that might hurt Andrew Han's feelings or whatever, but hardly anyone really thinks of him when they think of EVGA. It's just a company that does decent graphics cards and some other PC hardware to most of us. Selling the company couldn't possibly be any worse for the current employees AFAICT. Because it looks as though 80% of them will have to find a different job in the near future, and a new owner almost certainly wouldn't be doing anything worse than that.

I don't see how EVGA gets through this without ending up where BFG went. And how much sense would it make for EVGA to continue making PSUs under their current brand? Change the name to EPSU, because there's no longer any VGA. PSUs might have higher margins, but they're also far less exciting and far lower sales compared to GPUs. EVGA was 40% of the US Nvidia market. That's massive. If it made 20% profit off each card sold, compared to 60% profit off each PSU sold, the GPU division still would have brought in far more money.

But this is the decision of the CEO, since EVGA isn't publicly traded. He can do whatever he wants, and right now he apparently wants to spit in Nvidia's face, let the whole world know that he thinks Nvidia is a bad business partner, and take his GPU ball and go home. I don't doubt that it's very hard at times to do business with Nvidia. I guess not doing business at all will be better. Or if EVGA now changes course and decides to start doing AMD or Intel cards, or sells off the company, then maybe this was just a big PR move to get the appropriate buyer or partner or whatever. We'll see.

I don't disagree on most, but I do think you need to revisit some points:

1.- EVGA's 80% gives them close to no profit, if at all, going by their statement via GN. You can't run a business when you're running 80% of your whole business at or under cost. That's just stupid and a huge waste of effort. Like it or not, EVGA's CEO is not there to make nVidia any favours with what he has built with EVGA over the years. If the margins are so low that it makes all that extra effort and passion not pay out for him, then why keep at it? His peace of mind will help him re-focus on something that will make him profit, for sure. I mean, EVGA started small and has great brand recognition, so they still have some mind capital they can depend on, for a short while, at least.
2.- Continuing from #1, the CEO has made EVGA what it is today and I'm pretty sure all its employees love working there. Sure, no person alive is perfect in any regard and his decision will definitely have consequences, immediate even, on the whole Company and their workers, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. It IS EVGA we're talking about and, even if you don't know/like the person, it is HIS Company. We'll have to see how this goes, but I'll be hopeful for EVGA's future.
3.- If they decide to turn to another business market, like Motherboards for instance, if that division makes 30% margins, that is money they can re-invest in EVGA immediately and not wait for nVidia to help them turn ship with 80% that makes zero margin. Look at Asus, Corsair, MSI and a few others. There's so many different markets they can enter where people will give them the benefit of the doubt that they have good opportunities ahead and I'd consider that a good thing. To diversify, they need solid business lines and projections for getting good credit ratings. If 80% of your Company has a very uncertain future, your rating for big investment goes down and you can't grow.

Regards.

 

[Phaaze88]

They definitely didn't make any "cheap cards". Where that idea comes from bewilders me.

From what I've seen over the past year or two over on the EVGA forums, it looks like that due to EVGA selling so many more cards than the other AIBs.
So when crap went south for some users[people tend to remember and share the bad experiences far more than the good ones], their name popped up far more often than the other brands, thus the impression EVGA makes 'cheap cards'.

More people need to look at things objectively.
If it were Asus that were the biggest seller, they'd look the same(minus the CS part).