News Ex-Intel CEO Gelsinger warns TSMC's $165B investment will not restore U.S. semiconductor leadership

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hotaru251 said:
...except hes right.

if you only follow what others do you arent leading you are following & in event relations sour you have no R&D and fall behind very fast.
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He's a self-promoting noise maker. Nothing rules out R&D from this investment. Intel had decades to do R&D but they rode the wave. Intel lost their fab edge and steady node progression is one way to achieve optimisation.

He's dishing out advice to new CEO and now this. Moans about Nvidia being lucky. No one asked him. Lol. I agree that he was the tiniest bit better than the horrible stagnation-DJ krzanich but it's been mostly words from him.

nVidia uses TSMC. They do their own R&D. Mr Gelsinger will yell anything to get heard.
 
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Pierce2623 said:
Yeah the last true engineer CEO of Intel has zero idea about fabrication tech….Get real guy.
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While there's a point buried in what Pat said, during his tenure Intel struggled on the fab side, had issues with CPU design, missed the golden window to get into gaming GPUs, and seems to have mostly missed the boat on AI accelerators as well. Sure it was a mess when he arrived, but he didn't exactly knock it out of the park on the turnaround.

After his dismissal he landed at a cloud platform for churches... which I'm sure is important, but for someone coming from a chip design and foundry company it feels like maybe an indicator that no company doing hardware was interested.

Despite the fact that he was fired and people are regularly speculating whether Intel has the runway left for a turnaround and if they could be forced into a sale, he seems to regularly be talking to anyone who puts a mic in front of him about how great his plans were and offering unsolicited advice to his replacement while almost lashing out at certain things. Like, why does he need to weigh in on this issue at all now that he's the head of a faith-based cloud service company, other than that he's either got an axe to grind or really likes hearing himself in interviews?
 
Another lame Pat in exile opinion. The point is for parts of the supply chain to be moved here before it's too late. TSMC may even be forced to become an American company in the end, with the Taiwanese fabs bombed to rubble.
 
leoneo.x64 said:
He's a self-promoting noise maker. Nothing rules out R&D from this investment. Intel had decades to do R&D but they rode the wave. Intel lost their fab edge and steady node progression is one way to achieve optimisation.
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This has nothing to do with Pat's comment, nor did that happen under his watch. Nothing "rules" it out, but it's also true that not much of it is happening in the US.
The comment is 100% correct, where a product is made != leadership in an industry.

This is true regardless of your feeling toward Pat, Intel or anyone/thing else.
 
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I hear a lot of cars are made in Mexico. Does this give Mexico leadership in the automotive industry? The car companies are not based there so they can just move production if they have reason. (Which I hope they don't as the engines in the last 2 cars I've owned were built there and I'm quite happy with their performance, reliability and price)

TSMC's T stands for Taiwan. Just because they make some fabs in the US doesn't mean they are based in the US. Or ever intend to be. The reasons for building fabs here seem like a mix of avoiding taxes, political reasons, and perhaps undermining Intel's attempt at IDM 2.0.

The only way for the US to have leadership in the manufacturing of semiconductors is to have a US based company have that leadership. It doesn't have to be Intel, but who else is there? Intel is going to be selling 18A this year and TSMC is going to be selling Taiwan fabbed 2nm next year. Intel is moving on to high NA after that while TSMC is following down the path Intel did with 14++++ by sticking with old EUV.
US semiconductor manufacturing seems like it can get a foothold on leadership again, but only with Intel. It would be nice if there were more competitors, but it is a very difficult and expensive task.
 
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I think the opinion of the former CEO of and engineer at Intel and decades-long industry career is substantially more important than the opinion of anyone in this forum. And there are a lot of very bright people in this forum.

All the comments about him merely being self-serving and also critical of his new role are irrationally dismissive. if you've followed him since before he was CEO, his role now is very much in line with past comments.
 
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leoneo.x64 said:
Nothing rules out R&D from this investment.
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except it does...as Taiwan literally has laws about their most advanced stuff.

TSMC legally can not do the type of R&D they talking about in states. They will always be trailing the mainland's thus never leadership.
Taiwan’s technology protection rules prohibits Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC, 台積電) from producing 2-nanometer chips abroad, so the company must keep its most cutting-edge technology at home, Minister of Economic Affairs J.W. Kuo (郭智輝) said yesterday.

Kuo made the remarks in response to concerns that TSMC might be forced to produce advanced 2-nanometer chips at its fabs in Arizona ahead of schedule after former US president Donald Trump was re-elected as the next US president on Tuesday.

“Since Taiwan has related regulations to protect its own technologies, TSMC cannot produce 2-nanometer chips overseas currently,” Kuo said at a meeting of the legislature’s Economics Committee in Taipei.
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Why is Gelsinger still talking so much? Is he high on himself? He couldn't shut up when he was at Intel. I get it, he had to somehow prop up the company image even if it was all hot air. But he is not at intel anymore, and he is still talking.

STFU, Pat! What you say has zero credibility, and you've done this to yourself.
 
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Admin said:
Although TSMC will build an R&D facility in the U.S., its core R&D will remain in Taiwan, so the U.S. will keep following Taiwan even after TSMC builds out its Fab 21 site with six fab modules and two packaging facilities, says former CEO of Intel.

Ex-Intel CEO Gelsinger warns TSMC's $165B investment will not restore U.S. semiconductor leadership : Read more
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If Pat actually looked at the distribution of labs vs fabs in the U. S., he would know the U.S. have significantly more research labs/fabs than production fabs, the U.S. lost manufacturing leadership to Taiwan and others, however the U.S. still has a strong R&D leadership and invents the majority of chip manufacturing technologies, including the science and technology that enabled ASML to bring Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography to the market.
 
bluvg said:
I think the opinion of the former CEO of and engineer at Intel and decades-long industry career is substantially more important than the opinion of anyone in this forum. And there are a lot of very bright people in this forum.

All the comments about him merely being self-serving and also critical of his new role are irrationally dismissive. if you've followed him since before he was CEO, his role now is very much in line with past comments.
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His opinion would have more weight if he had managed to turn Intel around, during his tenure. I had high hopes he would turn Intel around, given his background, to keep competition alive and healthy, but he failed to do so. He was all talk.
 
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"You have an unlimited budget, and you are going to deliver five nodes in four years. We are going to get back to unquestioned process leadership."
- Pat Gelsinger, Oct 4, 2022


I too can throw 'unlimited budgets' at engineers, hire me as CEO! I might tank the company's stock value and it will take longer than four years, but that's minor detail.
 
logainofhades said:
His opinion would have more weight if he had managed to turn Intel around, during his tenure. I had high hopes he would turn Intel around, given his background, to keep competition alive and healthy, but he failed to do so. He was all talk.
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As we all know, these things happen over timelines of many years, not investor shiny-thing chase-cycles. The downward trajectory was set in motion long before he came back, and it's still far too early to say whether the inflection point was passed or not before it was "too late." If 18A gets serious and growing wins and IFS takes off over the next few years, should Tan get all the credit? Will people remember Pat's name? Outside of some in forums like this, no, they will remember Tan's. Yet Pat is rooting for that. Not seeing magnanimity in that treads beyond mere cynicism.

Regardless, his opinion still means more than that of us armchair quarterbacks (and we have some great QBs) in this forum.
 
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logainofhades said:
I had high hopes he would turn Intel around, given his background, to keep competition alive and healthy, but he failed to do so.
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he was given a few yrs to do so..and intel was already falling. He had long term health plan for it (which shareholders dislike long term) and thats better in long term. (was his goal goign to wrok? we dont know now but can't say it failed as again it was a long term goal)

What they expected of him was impossible in that short of a period.
 
hotaru251 said:
he was given a few yrs to do so..and intel was already falling. He had long term health plan for it (which shareholders dislike long term) and thats better in long term. (was his goal goign to wrok? we dont know now but can't say it failed as again it was a long term goal)

What they expected of him was impossible in that short of a period.
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Pat served for 3 years and 10 months and promised "5 nodes in 4 years", and now he asking for more time? He needs to be held to his timelines that he declared.
 
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