Discussion Expectations for Rocket Lake?

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BogdanH

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Sep 21, 2020
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About "Ryzen 5000 not available.." Some repeat that all the time without even checking (simply because everyone says that?).
I live in a country most of you never heard about (in Europe) and I got 5900X in December -at that time I could choose any 5000 I wanted. Out of curiosity, I still check availability/prices now and then, and most CPU's are available all the time. Of course it happens, i.e. 5950X currently is not on stock, but that's normal. Or put it another way: there's no 5000-series CPU one can't get within 3 weeks max.
Disclaimer: I only check European market.

AMD CPU prices? Are high yes. But if I recall correctly, before 5000 series came to market, Intel wasn't cheaper either. And which is better? I know the answer for me -everyone should think that way.

Of course I expect/hope 11000 series will be better than previous generation. But I can hardly imagine overall performance will be (significantly) above current AMD. Anyway, if 11000 series performance will be comparable to current AMD, then Intel failed in my eyes -"catch up" just isn't enough (and we don't know prices yet).
And if I'm wrong on that?.. well, who cares -my CPU will still have it's performance.
 
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About "Ryzen 5000 not available.." Some repeat that all the time without even checking (simply because everyone says that?).
I live in a country most of you never heard about (in Europe) and I got 5900X in December -at that time I could choose any 5000 I wanted. Out of curiosity, I still check availability/prices now and then, and most CPU's are available all the time. Of course it happens, i.e. 5950X currently is not on stock, but that's normal. Or put it another way: there's no 5000-series CPU one can't get within 3 weeks max.
Disclaimer: I only check European market.

AMD CPU prices? Are high yes. But if I recall correctly, before 5000 series came to market, Intel wasn't cheaper either. And which is better? I know the answer for me -everyone should think that way.

Of course I expect/hope 11000 series will be better than previous generation. But I can hardly imagine overall performance will be (significantly) above current AMD. Anyway, if 11000 series performance will be comparable to current AMD, then Intel failed in my eyes -"catch up" just isn't enough (and we don't know prices yet).
And if I'm wrong on that?.. well, who cares -my CPU will still have it's performance.
In which country do you live in?
You dont have to answer that, i know its a private question, just curious by your name : )
 

Phaaze88

Polypheme
Ambassador
It's nice to have options. I think we need a 3rd cpu option - we'll soon have a 3rd gpu option, which hopefully knocks Nvidia down a peg, but I'm not expecting anything until the 2nd gen.

As for the temperature/power thing between them:
-Cpu temp =! heat output =! power draw.
-Intel has the high power draw without the thermal density.
-AMD has the power efficiency without the surface area to properly dissipate those denser dies.
-Intel's adopting a multi-die design with Alder Lake - big cores/little cores. They could be in a similar boat to AMD.
-Manufacturers don't even use the same measurements for TDP... it's all screwed up, but there's not much else to go on.

Anyway, I don't know what to expect. The leaks - :rolleyes: - have Rocket Lake looking underwhelming.
Intel and AMD are trading blows, and I hope it stays that way.
 
Reactions: Master Djoza
It's nice to have options. I think we need a 3rd cpu option - we'll soon have a 3rd gpu option, which hopefully knocks Nvidia down a peg, but I'm not expecting anything until the 2nd gen.

As for the temperature/power thing between them:
-Cpu temp =! heat output =! power draw.
-Intel has the high power draw without the thermal density.
-AMD has the power efficiency without the surface area to properly dissipate those denser dies.
-Intel's adopting a multi-die design with Alder Lake - big cores/little cores. They could be in a similar boat to AMD.
-Manufacturers don't even use the same measurements for TDP... it's all screwed up, but there's not much else to go on.

Anyway, I don't know what to expect. The leaks - :rolleyes: - have Rocket Lake looking underwhelming.
Intel and AMD are trading blows, and I hope it stays that way.
" we'll soon have a 3rd gpu option, which hopefully knocks Nvidia down a peg, but I'm not expecting anything until the 2nd gen. "
Who??
I heard rumors about Intel making GPU's, are you reffering to that?
 
AVX is great but high, really high, extreme high power consumption
Because they are using it in a way it's not supposed to be used, they are using overclocking basically.
The CPU is supposed to drop to base line power draw after 56 secs (if it has the same tau still)
At idle, the CPU is consuming under 20 W while touching 30ºC. When the workload kicks in after 200 seconds or so, the power consumption rises very quickly to the 200-225 W band. This motherboard implements the ‘infinite turbo’ strategy, and so we get a sustained 200-225 W for over 10 minutes. Through this time, our CPU peaks at 81ºC, which is fairly reasonable for some of the best air cooling on the market. During this test, a sustained 4.6 GHz was on all cores.
 
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BogdanH

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For real world app, with some bios update, it should match 5800x
While BIOS can improve "default" performance in some cases (i.e stability by correcting workload curve) or unlocks some feature, it can't turn CPU into different CPU. That is, to gain speed, some sacrifice is needed to be made and I can only see increased power draw/temperature here.

I must say, I expected better from 11700K.. but then, not really. Yes, there is about 19% IPC improvement (sort of) compared to 10000 series. But that wasn't enough to catch up with AMD 5000 CPU.
Well, everyone should buy what fits his needs and wallet.
 
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Because they are using it in a way it's not supposed to be used, they are using overclocking basically.
The CPU is supposed to drop to base line power draw after 56 secs (if it has the same tau still)
That is out of box design with most motherboards. Most people will not go into their BIOS and change the unlimited Tau. Therefore they aren't using it in an overclocked fashion.
 
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Karadjgne

Titan
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It's going to depend on the motherboard. Intel has purposely 'looked the other way' when it comes to ignoring Intels recommended power limits, why wouldn't they, it doesn't cost them anything and is 'free' performance bonus. Some boards have gone from a 250w P1 to a 95w P2 after 56 seconds, so limits longer-term boost gains, to 1000A P1 and 99999 second Tau. All at 'factory' settings. That's great if you have the cooling for it, over heats in a hurry if you don't.

And there's a definite lack of oversight in the process. It's a 1-shot deal. At least with Ryzens, they'll start dropping core multipliers at 60°C+ to maintain safe temps, no matter what stupidity in cooling you use, it'll protect itself and you. No such with Intel, it puts the pedal to the floor and plays 'catch me if you can' until it hits a brick wall and shuts down.

A few extra fps is one thing, some see that as making team Red or Team Blue king for gaming. Me personally, I prefer the Team Red approach of best performance within realistic limits to Team Blue approach of 'We will be on Top, no matter what it costs you'.
 
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That is out of box design with most motherboards. Most people will not go into their BIOS and change the unlimited Tau. Therefore they aren't using it in an overclocked fashion.
This is a professional review not some kid that just uses whatever hardware.
If you want to show mce that's great but you still have to review the CPU in the way that intel intended it to run, anything else is welcomed as additional info but not as the only info.

Also people that won't be bothered to go into bios to change pl and tau won't be bothered by high power usage either because otherwise they will go into bios or run throttlestop or ixtu.
 
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TravisPNW

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Honestly it's just more of the same imo, another factory overclocked 14nm+++++++ clone of the 7700K but with a couple more cores, extra ground pins and chipset firmware locks so you can't run them on older mobos. Yay.

CPU's aren't massively improving from one generation to another like before

it'll stay there for 6-7 years I hope.
I agree... I built my 7700k/1080 Ti system in April 2017... and built the 10900k/3090 system in December 2020... so not quite 4 years of use. The 1080 Ti was starting to show its age in 4K gaming and in addition to the GPU upgrade the CPU jump from 4 cores to 10 cores has been an astonishing improvement. I'm talking about 2 hour video encoding times going from 2 hours down to 30 minutes... saving 90 minutes per encoding job.

90 minutes.

That alone has me doing cartwheels on top of the gaming improvements.

If I got nearly 4 years out of the last build I have no problems believing I'll get 5-6 years out of this one. Like you said... the CPUs just aren't massively improving from one gen to the next. It's not like it was 20 years ago when your new CPU was outdated before you got home from Circuit City.

:LOL:
 
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This is a professional review not some kid that just uses whatever hardware.
If you want to show mce that's great but you still have to review the CPU in the way that intel intended it to run, anything else is welcomed as additional info but not as the only info.

Also people that won't be bothered to go into bios to change pl and tau won't be bothered by high power usage either because otherwise they will go into bios or run throttlestop or ixtu.
We understand that you are an Intel apologist. However, if Intel really wanted motherboard manufacturers to not enable unlimited Tau by default they would make sure of that. Since Intel doesn't do that, one can reasonably assume Intel wants this enabled to have their chips look better. Personally I've been building computers for over 20 years and I have never gone and changed power/turbo options in the BIOS. I do care about power usage though. In the end the fact still is that RKL has lower performance and higher power draw than Zen3.
 
I agree... I built my 7700k/1080 Ti system in April 2017... and built the 10900k/3090 system in December 2020... so not quite 4 years of use. The 1080 Ti was starting to show its age in 4K gaming and in addition to the GPU upgrade the CPU jump from 4 cores to 10 cores has been an astonishing improvement. I'm talking about 2 hour video encoding times going from 2 hours down to 30 minutes... saving 90 minutes per encoding job.

90 minutes.

That alone has me doing cartwheels on top of the gaming improvements.

If I got nearly 4 years out of the last build I have no problems believing I'll get 5-6 years out of this one. Like you said... the CPUs just aren't massively improving from one gen to the next. It's not like it was 20 years ago when your new CPU was outdated before you got home from Circuit City.

:LOL:
You really are satisfied with upgrade, arent you xD
 
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