Discussion Expectations for Rocket Lake?

[Master Djoza]

So, everybody dissapointed with 11th Gen or have you given up on Intel after you saw Zen 3 ?

 

[Conahl]

you still have to review the CPU in the way that intel intended it to run

the ironic part of that, is intel probably would like their cpus to run as they designed it, its the motherboard makers that are setting the pl and tau limits, and intel doesnt tell them to change it.

Also people that won't be bothered to go into bios to change pl and tau won't be bothered by high power usage either because otherwise they will go into bios or run throttlestop or ixtu.

that just sounds like you are making excuses for intel NEEDING to use all the power they can just to get the performance it needs to compete.

 

[Master Djoza]

While we are at Rocket Lake...
Thoughts on B560 and Z590?

 

[TravisPNW]

You really are satisfied with upgrade, arent you xD

I think I'm more satisfied with the fact I got it all at retail price... and didn't really wait all that long for parts... just a week or two which was mainly due to holiday shipping slowdown. I've seen people posting that they are on a 3-4 month wait list for their AMD CPU. Nothing against that if that is what you want... but AMD wasn't a priority for me. I've had them before with the last one being the Athlon XP 1800+ in 2001... since then it's been all Intel. Not really by choice or anything just how it's worked out. In 2017 the Ryzen was just coming out and unproven so I went with the 7700k. In 2020 the Ryzen was proven but out of stock everywhere so I went with the 10900k. Is what it is.

But yeah, I'm satisfied overall. I have a PC in the top 1%... No regrets not waiting for 11th gen either... not a gamebreaking improvement IMO.

 

[Karadjgne]

I'm talking about 2 hour video encoding times going from 2 hours down to 30 minutes... saving 90 minutes per encoding job.

Like you said... the CPUs just aren't massively improving from one gen to the next.

You went from 2 hrs to 30 minutes in 3 gens. I'd say your second quote is somewhat contradictory considering the 7700k was the single top line cpu and so is the 10900k. It's highly dependent on use, in some respects there's been massive improvements in the 14nm++++++...... clones abilities. Software can only do so much.

 

[Master Djoza]

I think I'm more satisfied with the fact I got it all at retail price... and didn't really wait all that long for parts... just a week or two which was mainly due to holiday shipping slowdown. I've seen people posting that they are on a 3-4 month wait list for their AMD CPU. Nothing against that if that is what you want... but AMD wasn't a priority for me. I've had them before with the last one being the Athlon XP 1800+ in 2001... since then it's been all Intel. Not really by choice or anything just how it's worked out. In 2017 the Ryzen was just coming out and unproven so I went with the 7700k. In 2020 the Ryzen was proven but out of stock everywhere so I went with the 10900k. Is what it is.

But yeah, I'm satisfied overall. I have a PC in the top 1%... No regrets not waiting for 11th gen either... not a gamebreaking improvement IMO.

" I have a PC in the top 1%... "
Yeah, i noticed the 'short' signature below xD

 

[TravisPNW]

You went from 2 hrs to 30 minutes in 3 gens. I'd say your second quote is somewhat contradictory considering the 7700k was the single top line cpu and so is the 10900k. It's highly dependent on use, in some respects there's been massive improvements in the 14nm++++++...... clones abilities. Software can only do so much.

Now that I look at it... you do have a point! Thanks for the comment! I use my 10900k for a bit of everything... encoding, rendering, CAD stuff for work, and gaming. It does it all quite well. The biggest improvement I've noticed is the encoding already mentioned. The first one I did post build really blew my mind. So much better. I think I'll be happy with 10 cores for quite a long time.

Everything about 11th gen was still rumors a few months back and I didn't want to wait. Now seeing that 8 core is as good as it gets I'm not regretting the 10900k at all.

" I have a PC in the top 1%... "
Yeah, i noticed the 'short' signature below xD

 

[TerryLaze]

that just sounds like you are making excuses for intel NEEDING to use all the power they can just to get the performance it needs to compete.

MCE adds the additional power but doesn't change clocks upwards, it doesn't change any results because it won't go above stock clocks, and especially for games it reduces the single core clocks down to the multicore clocks, more power for less performance in gaming and single core results.

We understand that you are an Intel apologist. However, if Intel really wanted motherboard manufacturers to not enable unlimited Tau by default they would make sure of that.

Sure also AMD doesn't stop manufacturers from releasing buggy mobos with reduced performance what if a review would only use a buggy mobo and would try to pass that off as normal behavior?

 

[Karadjgne]

A Professional review, like done by gamersnexus, jayz, hardware unboxed etc rarely Ever uses any kind of lower end or buggy mobo to test cpus. One, because the sponsor will send its best, pretested to make absolutely sure its not buggy (last thing a sponsor wants is proof of bugginess on camera) and two, the highest end boards can handle the highest end cpus without issue, so all test results have behavioral continuity across multiple cpus.

Sponsers have to be really careful about PR. Reviewers are not kind when slighted. Nvidia just found that out by refusing to send Hardware Unboxed any more FE cards, claiming that channel didn't agree with its interests, but would be happy to revisit that decision as soon as HU changed its editorial content. Linus was not happy and had Plenty to say on Live broadcast about that.

Reviewers aren't going to use buggy boards, unless done so for a reason.

 

[jeremyj_83]

MCE adds the additional power but doesn't change clocks upwards, it doesn't change any results because it won't go above stock clocks, and especially for games it reduces the single core clocks down to the multicore clocks, more power for less performance in gaming and single core results.

Sure also AMD doesn't stop manufacturers from releasing buggy mobos with reduced performance what if a review would only use a buggy mobo and would try to pass that off as normal behavior?

Are you implying that a trusted review site, that even gave Intel a heads up of review before posting it asking for a response, would be posting a review with known buggy behavior unless the review was designed to show the bugs? "Before publishing this review, we gave Intel advance notice to respond to us having a full review ahead of the formal release. Our email seemingly generated some excitement inside (and to our surprise, outside) Intel, but we received a response from Intel stating that they had no comment to offer." They stated that a BIOS update released at the time of release could bring minor performance or turbo response. "While we can't disclose the motherboard used due to NDA reasons, it has already been announced by the manufacturer. Meanwhile, the BIOS used is likely not the final variant that will be used for Rocket Lake's retail launch later this month, and further BIOSes may contain potential minor adjustments to performance or turbo responses." Turbo response won't help with the MT performance though as the chip ran at the all core boost on the threaded applications for unlimited time. Therefore only minor, at best, single threaded or very lightly threaded performance boost. These gains won't be enough to erase the performance deficit that already exists.

 

[TerryLaze]

Are you implying that a trusted review site, that even gave Intel a heads up of review before posting it asking for a response, would be posting a review with known buggy behavior unless the review was designed to show the bugs? "Before publishing this review, we gave Intel advance notice to respond to us having a full review ahead of the formal release. Our email seemingly generated some excitement inside (and to our surprise, outside) Intel, but we received a response from Intel stating that they had no comment to offer." They stated that a BIOS update released at the time of release could bring minor performance or turbo response. "While we can't disclose the motherboard used due to NDA reasons, it has already been announced by the manufacturer. Meanwhile, the BIOS used is likely not the final variant that will be used for Rocket Lake's retail launch later this month, and further BIOSes may contain potential minor adjustments to performance or turbo responses." Turbo response won't help with the MT performance though as the chip ran at the all core boost on the threaded applications for unlimited time. Therefore only minor, at best, single threaded or very lightly threaded performance boost. These gains won't be enough to erase the performance deficit that already exists.

If this infinite turbo cuts single core to 4.6, that's what they say on page two of the review, but stock performance, not mobo stock settings but what intel uses boosts the single core to 5Ghz,that's what is listed on page one of the review, that's already a 10% difference in single core performance, if the GPU is going to limit it below that fine but anything single core that's only limited by the CPU will be running 10% faster, possibly including latency.

 

[Conahl]

terry laze, face it you are grasping at straws trying to make this joke of a cpu viable. it uses too much power over all and the performance is not that great for that power use, a bios update may not change anything if at all, then what ? will you come up with some other bs excuse to explain that ? if intel had ANY issues with the review on AT, dont you think they would of said something ? cause intel had no comment, then that means they gave AT their blessing to run the review. come one, its known you love intel and will defend and make excuses left right and center for them, but even you should open your eyes and realize, for the time being, intels cpus are just out of gas, and accept it.

but stock performance, not mobo stock settings but what intel uses boosts the single core to 5Ghz

if intel doesn't tell the mobo makers how to run the cpus, or what settings they are to use, then it IS stock settings for that board. if the board maker wants to effectively let the cpu run with practically no limits other then the cooling used. then deal with it.

Sure also AMD doesn't stop manufacturers from releasing buggy mobos with reduced performance what if a review would only use a buggy mobo and would try to pass that off as normal behavior?

um i think they did just that, and if i remember right, the SAME THING HAPPENED THEN AS IT IS NOW. some were saying the same thing, wait till amd gets a bios update/official release bios, and see what happens, and like with amd, the bios updates still didnt change things all that much, intel still had the lead in same cases, and i sure dont expect that to change here.

ive seen some call this cpu, intel's bulldozer, and quite frankly, it is. the comments on AT for this review, are NOT favorable to this cpu, and for good reason.

 

[Master Djoza]

Hey, i didnt make this thread for you guys to argue about intel vs amd, you can do that in pm's or smth like that.
We have clarified that intel has dissapointed us, so lets just accept those facts, and move on. (So far judging by the reviews)
Do any of you happen to know if there will be a 11th gen i3, or something like that?

 

[Master Djoza]

What are your thought on B560 and Z590, while we are at Rocket Lake.
So far i didnt see any H510 motherboards, only H570, B560 and Z590, so is H510 coming out?

 

[Master Djoza]

One dumb question though.
I recently saw a "newer" version of intel's stock cooler, painted in black.
What cpu's will they come with,or is that cooler just a rumor?

 

[Phaaze88]

Do any of you happen to know if there will be a 11th gen i3, or something like that?

I think this was the most recent leak - keep in mind that it may not be concrete: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-rocket-lake-release-date-specifications-performance-all-we-know
A certain paragraph states this:
"As we can see above, Intel spreads the Rocket Lake (RKL-S) chips into the familiar Core i9, i7, and i5 families, but there's a fly in the ointment: Intel has purportedly decided to use refreshed Comet Lake (CML-R) chips for its Core i3 and Pentium families. Those chips feature the same architecture as other Comet Lake chips but come with slightly increased clock speeds and have already shown up at Malaysian retailers."

I recently saw a "newer" version of intel's stock cooler, painted in black.
What cpu's will they come with,or is that cooler just a rumor?

That's old news.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-revamps-boxed-coolers-for-comet-lake-processors-new-blacked-out-design
They're still crap though... but good looking crap, LOL.

 

[Master Djoza]

I think this was the most recent leak - keep in mind that it may not be concrete: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-rocket-lake-release-date-specifications-performance-all-we-know
A certain paragraph states this:
"As we can see above, Intel spreads the Rocket Lake (RKL-S) chips into the familiar Core i9, i7, and i5 families, but there's a fly in the ointment: Intel has purportedly decided to use refreshed Comet Lake (CML-R) chips for its Core i3 and Pentium families. Those chips feature the same architecture as other Comet Lake chips but come with slightly increased clock speeds and have already shown up at Malaysian retailers."


That's old news.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-revamps-boxed-coolers-for-comet-lake-processors-new-blacked-out-design
They're still crap though... but good looking crap, LOL.

Ok, so there have been rumors about the i3...
I'll see what happens.
So the cooler comes with i7 and the i9, interesting.
Atleast it looks nicer, or as you would say good looking crap xD

 

[jeremyj_83]

If this infinite turbo cuts single core to 4.6, that's what they say on page two of the review, but stock performance, not mobo stock settings but what intel uses boosts the single core to 5Ghz,that's what is listed on page one of the review, that's already a 10% difference in single core performance, if the GPU is going to limit it below that fine but anything single core that's only limited by the CPU will be running 10% faster, possibly including latency.

Infinite turbo DOES NOT affect anything but duration. Don't go spreading that FUD. That page does not say single core dropped to 4.6GHz. Here is what it says: "This tests for 10-15 seconds and then idles for 10 seconds, and does rapidly go through any system that doesn’t run an infinite turbo. What we see here in this power only graph is the alarming peaks of 290-292 W. Looking at our data, the all-core turbo under AVX-512 is 4.6 GHz, sometimes dipping to 4.5 GHz." Turbo Boost 3.0 for 1-2c is listed at 5.0GHz with all core listed at 4.6GHz. That is all in a nice little table to look at and read. Again we understand you are an Intel apologist who believes everything Intel does it the best thing ever. However, please don't spread blatantly false information especially when you "cite" a page and don't bother to actually cite it correctly.

 

[jeremyj_83]

What are your thought on B560 and Z590, while we are at Rocket Lake.
So far i didnt see any H510 motherboards, only H570, B560 and Z590, so is H510 coming out?

Typically the Z series motherboards are always nice with top of the line features. I wouldn't be surprised to see TB4 and 2.5GbE on most Z series boards.

 

[Master Djoza]

Typically the Z series motherboards are always nice with top of the line features. I wouldn't be surprised to see TB4 and 2.5GbE on most Z series boards.

"I wouldn't be surprised to see TB4 and 2.5GbE on most Z series boards "

ASUS Z590 series – The best motherboards for 11th Gen Intel Rocket Lake CPUs

ASUS Z590 motherboards are designed to get the most out of 11th Gen Intel® Core™ processors and feature AI-powered enhancements, Thunderbolt™ 4, WiFi 6E and PCIe® 4.0.

www.asus.com

Go to CONNECTIVITY

 

[Master Djoza]

@jeremyj_83 Do you happen to know anything about the lower end of the new 500 series motherboards?
Like H510, H570?

 

[jeremyj_83]

@jeremyj_83 Do you happen to know anything about the lower end of the new 500 series motherboards?
Like H510, H570?

Sadly I do not. I do like the connectivity on that board you linked. That should be the standard for any high-end boards regardless of manufacturer and CPU.

 

[TerryLaze]

terry laze, face it you are grasping at straws trying to make this joke of a cpu viable. it uses too much power over all and the performance is not that great for that power use, a bios update may not change anything if at all, then what ? will you come up with some other bs excuse to explain that ? if intel had ANY issues with the review on AT, dont you think they would of said something ? cause intel had no comment, then that means they gave AT their blessing to run the review. come one, its known you love intel and will defend and make excuses left right and center for them, but even you should open your eyes and realize, for the time being, intels cpus are just out of gas, and accept it.

if intel doesn't tell the mobo makers how to run the cpus, or what settings they are to use, then it IS stock settings for that board. if the board maker wants to effectively let the cpu run with practically no limits other then the cooling used. then deal with it.


um i think they did just that, and if i remember right, the SAME THING HAPPENED THEN AS IT IS NOW. some were saying the same thing, wait till amd gets a bios update/official release bios, and see what happens, and like with amd, the bios updates still didnt change things all that much, intel still had the lead in same cases, and i sure dont expect that to change here.

ive seen some call this cpu, intel's bulldozer, and quite frankly, it is. the comments on AT for this review, are NOT favorable to this cpu, and for good reason.

What are you even raving about? Following intel's guidelines will reduce the CPU performance in multithreading so how am I defending them at al cost?
But that's what a review has to tell you, the official performance before anything else, if they want to include additional info like mce or O/C that's a different thing.

 

[TerryLaze]

Infinite turbo DOES NOT affect anything but duration. Don't go spreading that FUD. That page does not say single core dropped to 4.6GHz. Here is what it says: "This tests for 10-15 seconds and then idles for 10 seconds, and does rapidly go through any system that doesn’t run an infinite turbo. What we see here in this power only graph is the alarming peaks of 290-292 W. Looking at our data, the all-core turbo under AVX-512 is 4.6 GHz, sometimes dipping to 4.5 GHz." Turbo Boost 3.0 for 1-2c is listed at 5.0GHz with all core listed at 4.6GHz. That is all in a nice little table to look at and read. Again we understand you are an Intel apologist who believes everything Intel does it the best thing ever. However, please don't spread blatantly false information especially when you "cite" a page and don't bother to actually cite it correctly.

How do you know that "infinite turbo" isn't disabling turbo 2/3?
Do you know for sure they can work alongside each other on this mobo? We don't even know which mobo they use and they are not showing any clock charts while running the single core benches.

 

[jeremyj_83]

How do you know that "infinite turbo" isn't disabling turbo 2/3?
Do you know for sure they can work alongside each other on this mobo? We don't even know which mobo they use and they are not showing any clock charts while running the single core benches.

For every other Intel system that has allowed for Infinite Turbo it hasn't disabled or overridden Turbo Boost 2 or 3. However, now for RKL if your motherboard maker has the Tau set to infinity you can only turbo to the all core boost speed. Tell me how does that make any sense? All motherboard makers have done is allowed the power going to the chip to stay at very high levels for longer than 56 seconds. Assuming you have adequate cooling the CPU will not throttle. Seriously you are grasping at straws to come up with an argument that doesn't exist.