Question EXPO Crashing Games Ryzen 7800x3d on ROG Mobo

[Babooom]

Specs:
Ryzen 7800x3d
ROG B650-a Gaming Wifi
PSU 1000w gold
RTX 4090
GSKILL Trident Z5 32gb 6000mhz

When I enable EXPO and play a game using my motherboards EXPO 1 profile (default profile when EXPO is enabled), it crashes after about 10 mins of play. I decided to run some benchmarks and running OCCT's CPU benchmark with EXPO enabled, I immediately get hundreds of errors with the test. When turning off EXPO, the CPU test runs fine. I'm aware of some voltage issues EXPO on ASUS motherboards but I thought those were fixed already. I'm on the most recent BIOS version because I needed it to even boot using this CPU with the motherboard.

What modifications can I make to my BIOS to enable EXPO and ensure that the settings aren't harming my CPU? As a side note, my CPU temp haven't gone above 75 (core temps even lower than that)

Edit: There were also times where my PC would just freeze on the desktop with EXPO enabled and I'd have to hard shutdown

 

[Lutfij]

BIOS version for your motherboard at this moment of time?

 

[Babooom]

BIOS version for your motherboard at this moment of time?

Version 1616. Also, This is the EXPO 1 profile changes (Auto is the current STABLE setting for all of them):

Ai Overclock Tuner [Auto]-> [EXPO I]
Memory Frequency (Auto]->[DDR5-6000MHz]
Tcl [Auto]->[36]
Tred [Auto]-> [36]
Trp [Auto]-> [36]
Tras (Auto]-> [96]

DRAM VDD Voltage [Auto]->[1.35000]


DRAM VDDQ Voltage [Auto]->(1.35000]


PMIC Voltages [Auto]-> [Sync All PMICs]


Memory VDD Voltage [Auto]->(1.35000]

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

You could try not activating EXPO and just setting these values manually.
If nothing else, you can put the speed at 4800 and go up in manual increments from there.

 

[Babooom]

You could try not activating EXPO and just setting these values manually.
If nothing else, you can put the speed at 4800 and go up in manual increments from there.

I've read that this CPU shouldn't go over a voltage of 1.3. Can I set that limit in the BIOS so the EXPO settings that I change won't push the CPU over 1.3v? Dumb question but those DRAM voltages of 1.35v aren't pertaining to the CPU, correct? Only the RAM?

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

I've read that this CPU shouldn't go over a voltage of 1.3. Can I set that limit in the BIOS so the EXPO settings that I change won't push the CPU over 1.3v? Dumb question but those DRAM voltages of 1.35v aren't pertaining to the CPU, correct? Only the RAM?

Only RAM, correct.

Word is that a SoC voltage over 1.3 can damage Zen 4. So you could set it around 1.2 volt in override mode (if it's set higher on auto) to be safe.

I do this for Zen 2 and 3 around 1.1, to be sure it stays under 1.2v

CPU voltage on auto is safe if AMD is managing the speed and cores and stuff. If I would set those voltages manually, it would boost all cores to max while overvolting them.

If I had your chip, I'd leave all cpu settings on auto or Boost Overdrive or so.

 

[Babooom]

Only RAM, correct.

Word is that a SoC voltage over 1.3 can damage Zen 4. So you could set it around 1.2 volt in override mode (if it's set higher on auto) to be safe.

I do this for Zen 2 and 3 around 1.1, to be sure it stays under 1.2v

CPU voltage on auto is safe if AMD is managing the speed and cores and stuff. If I would set those voltages manually, it would boost all cores to max while overvolting them.

If I had your chip, I'd leave all cpu settings on auto or Boost Overdrive or so.

auto is set to less than 1.1v currently. I modified the frequency to 5800mhz without making any changes to the timings but CPU is still erroring out. Honestly if I can't even get 5800 it's not worth trying any lower. Not sure what else I can do to get it over 5800

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

auto is set to less than 1.1v currently. I modified the frequency to 5800mhz without making any changes to the timings but CPU is still erroring out. Honestly if I can't even get 5800 it's not worth trying any lower. Not sure what else I can do to get it over 5800

Ok so..
The EXPO profile not loaded: check.
The 36-36.... timings set manually: check.
Voltages set to 1.35v manually...no check then?

The 36 36 ....timings come with the 1.35v power on the RAM. What does 5800 matter when your system keeps freezing?


1. Load BIOS defaults

2. Enter RAM voltages, the 4 timings and check frequencies one by one

3. If auto vSoC > 1.25v, lock it at 1.25v manually.

Check 5600, 5200, 4800 @ 36 36 ... until stable. Done.

 

[Babooom]

Ok so..
The EXPO profile not loaded: check.
The 36-36.... timings set manually: check.
Voltages set to 1.35v manually...no check then?

The 36 36 ....timings come with the 1.35v power on the RAM. What does 5800 matter when your system keeps freezing?


1. Load BIOS defaults

2. Enter RAM voltages, the 4 timings and check frequencies one by one

3. If auto vSoC > 1.25v, lock it at 1.25v manually.

Check 5600, 5200, 4800 @ 36 36 ... until stable. Done.

I had the 1.35v set manually previously, sorry if that wasn't clear. My system isn't freezing or anything when EXPO is off (ie running 4800mhz). The point I'm making is why can't I run this ram with my setup at 5800mhz or more? I paid extra money for 6000mhz RAM and this board supports it, so what's the problem? If it does work and is stable at 5200, so what? At that point I might as well just continue running it at 4800mhz... I want to achieve 6000mhz on this build and I'm trying to figure out if it's possible with this setup or if I need to modify some parts (buy a new mobo, change the RAM, etc.)

 

[Zerk2012]

I had the 1.35v set manually previously, sorry if that wasn't clear. My system isn't freezing or anything when EXPO is off (ie running 4800mhz). The point I'm making is why can't I run this ram with my setup at 5800mhz or more? I paid extra money for 6000mhz RAM and this board supports it, so what's the problem? If it does work and is stable at 5200, so what? At that point I might as well just continue running it at 4800mhz... I want to achieve 6000mhz on this build and I'm trying to figure out if it's possible with this setup or if I need to modify some parts (buy a new mobo, change the RAM, etc.)

Your board memory support.
DDR5 6400+(OC)/ 6200(OC)/ 6000(OC)/ 5800(OC)/ 5600(OC)/ 5400(OC)/ 5200/ 5000/ 4800 ECC and Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory

Anything with the (OC) at the end is not guaranteed you might need to loosen the timings or make other adjustments to get that speed. It's also possible it just won't get stable at the higher speed.

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

I had the 1.35v set manually previously, sorry if that wasn't clear. My system isn't freezing or anything when EXPO is off (ie running 4800mhz). The point I'm making is why can't I run this ram with my setup at 5800mhz or more? I paid extra money for 6000mhz RAM and this board supports it, so what's the problem? If it does work and is stable at 5200, so what? At that point I might as well just continue running it at 4800mhz... I want to achieve 6000mhz on this build and I'm trying to figure out if it's possible with this setup or if I need to modify some parts (buy a new mobo, change the RAM, etc.)

The RAM will most likely work. Either now on a better board, or with a regular processor, or later after a certain BIOS update for your board.

 

[Babooom]

Your board memory support.
DDR5 6400+(OC)/ 6200(OC)/ 6000(OC)/ 5800(OC)/ 5600(OC)/ 5400(OC)/ 5200/ 5000/ 4800 ECC and Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory

Anything with the (OC) at the end is not guaranteed you might need to loosen the timings or make other adjustments to get that speed. It's also possible it just won't get stable at the higher speed.

Can you elaborate on "loosen the timings" and suggest some timings I could try with 5000mhz-6000mhz?

 

[Zerk2012]

Can you elaborate on "loosen the timings" and suggest some timings I could try with 5000mhz-6000mhz?

Example you could try 40-40-40-96

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

Can you elaborate on "loosen the timings" and suggest some timings I could try with 5000mhz-6000mhz?

You have an x3d chip. That's a thing, and it kills hard at certain instruction sets. It's stuffed with cache, which brings with it certain restrictions.

I'd build AM5 with 7600x on B650 Riptide and
4x8 Ripjaws 3600C16 GVKC or 7900x on MSI PRO-X670 with Ripjaws 2x32 3600c19 GVR. But way too expensive.

 

[Babooom]

You have an x3d chip. That's a thing, and it kills hard at certain instruction sets. It's stuffed with cache, which brings with it certain restrictions.

I'd build AM5 with 7600x on B650 Riptide and
4x8 Ripjaws 3600C16 GVKC or 7900x on MSI PRO-X670 with Ripjaws 2x32 3600c19 GVR. But way too expensive.

Yeah that's a bit out of my budget too after this purchase. I managed to get a max of 5600mhz setting everything manually. Thanks for everyone's help, just sucks I can't get the full 6000 out of this RAM. Guessing it's more of a motherboard issue than CPU/RAM issue

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

Guessing it's more of a motherboard issue than CPU/RAM issue

I think it's a memory controller issue. x3d and APU chips' MCUs will be less effective because of how they're set up.
Learn MCU architecture (nm), location, voltage range, bus / signal to noise / impedance, drive strength, command rate, VTT-Vref termination, timing definitions,....and you'll probably get it to run @ 6000. But I don't think it will be worth it.

2 dual rank DIMMs running at a multiple of 400 MHz is most important. 5600c36 or 6000c40 or so, just 2 2Rx8 modules with 1 or 2 Gb ICs.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Yeah that's a bit out of my budget too after this purchase. I managed to get a max of 5600mhz setting everything manually. Thanks for everyone's help, just sucks I can't get the full 6000 out of this RAM. Guessing it's more of a motherboard issue than CPU/RAM issue

I think it's a memory controller issue. x3d and APU chips' MCUs will be less effective because of how they're set up.

Whatever the root cause is... board or memory controller... I'm not experiencing it.

I'm running a 7950x3D... my x670e board is running the latest BIOS... with 64GB (2x 32GB) G Skill Trident Z5 Neo CL 30 6000mhz ram and I haven't had to change a thing.

No manual settings... all set on auto. SoC is locked at 1.3v and EXPO is on with ram running at 6000mhz and I've had zero performance and stability issues.

 

[HeerZakdoeK]

Whatever the root cause is... board or memory controller... I'm not experiencing it.

I'm running a 7950x3D... my x670e board is running the latest BIOS... with 64GB (2x 32GB) G Skill Trident Z5 Neo CL 30 6000mhz ram and I haven't had to change a thing.

No manual settings... all set on auto. SoC is locked at 1.3v and EXPO is on with ram running at 6000mhz and I've had zero performance and stability issues.

Also zero DDR4 compatibility and zero 3D Vcache issues I imagine. 1.3v SoC. 2 dual rank DIMMs is best 4 rank setup for MCU. 4 ranks, 1.3v soc and X quality mosfets are necessities for R9 for all core performance, dual CCD setup and heat control at high current, respectively.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Also zero DDR4 compatibility and zero 3D Vcache issues I imagine. 1.3v SoC. 2 dual rank DIMMs is best 4 rank setup for MCU. 4 ranks, 1.3v soc and X quality mosfets are necessities for R9 for all core performance, dual CCD setup and heat control at high current, respectively.

Correct... no issues with the DDR5.