Extreme watercooling please help

[tomshardware user]

i have decided to watercool my new rig to get the most power i can get from it but i need help from the watercooling experienced people here

my spec will be

3xEVGA 02G-P3-1185-AR GeForce GTX 285 2GB 512-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition Bloomfield 3.33GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601975 - Retail

EVGA 141-BL-E769-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 Extended ATX SLI Classified Hydro Copper Intel Motherboard - Retail

Lian Li Armorsuit PC-P80 / Black / Full Tower Case (PC-P80B

2xFeser Limited Edition "Monsta" 420/360 Xchanger Triple 140mm Xtreme Performance Radiator - White Edition

2xXSPC Passive 500mm Reservoir - Silver

20xFeser Tube Active UV Hose - 1/2" ID (3/4"OD) Anti-Kink Tubing - UV Blue

Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ SE Ultra High Finish Universal CPU Waterblock - Nickel Plated (LGA 1366 Ready!)

20xKoolance Reusable 19mm, 3/4" OD Hose Clamp (CLM-19)

3xDD-GTX285 Version 2 DD-GTX285 Version 2

5xFeser Aqua Non Conductive Ultra Pure Water - 1000 ml (FA-0054

2x Eheim 1250 - A/C Powered (110V) Pump or 2xDanger Den DDC-12V Water Pump(please tell me which is better)

12xScythe SY1425SL12H 140mm Case Fan - Retail,will be using a fan controller

my biggest concern is that will the 2 monsta radiators fit in the case or no?if u have any other suggestions please tell me

 

[Conumdrum]

No idea if the rad will fit in the case, you'll have to measure that. Those rads are huge.

Get the Laing Pump. The DDC3.2 aka MCP355. DD rebadges this pump like many Etailers. Get the XSPC restop and you don't need a seperate res.

The AC pumps you ask about are overkill and a pain to set up for operation.

Some links to help:
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75:hokiealumnus&catid=40verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223835 Many build logs on MANY cases, great learning tool.

My latest rig:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=604016

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

 

[Shadow703793]

GTZ SE eh? Any one using this? Only difference AFAIK is the Chrome plated brass instead of the usual Delrin top. Would it be about .5C-1Cbetter than the normal GTZ due to the fact it has a thermally conductive top? Or does it not make any difference in performance?
@OP: Sorry for hijacking the thread
=============================

Anyways, the AC pumps are indeed a bit of work because you need to get a relay to turn off/on the pump with the PC. Stick with a 12v DC pump like a D5 (MCP655)

Also, don't bother with these "Non Conductive Ultra Pure Water" stuff;after a bit of use they WILL be conductive any ways. The instant you open the bottel, it'll become contaminated and thus conductive.Just grab some distilled water from your local food/drug store ($1.50-$3 for a gallon) and use some Kill Coils or PT Nuke to get rid of algae,etc.

Also don't get a full cover water block. Get a GPU only water block and add some RAM sinks. This way you'll be able to keep using the GPU block for a few GPU generations when you upgrade GPU.

Your selections are good quality and will work well. If it's your first WCing READ ALL the WCing guides at xtremesystems,etc. esp. the one about leak testing

 

[cats_Paw]

if you are gonna spend that much cash u might want to grab a waterchiller as well.
But really i think many of your components migh be overkill, especially since you dont seem to mention any watercooling for HDDs, Mosfets, Ram..

I dont know that deposit but if its a front bay one or something like that id recomend this 1:

http://www.tienda-traxtore.com/tienda/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&codp=5134

 

[tomshardware user]

that's is my first watercooled build,i don't really know much about watercooling and i am really desperate,i am not in a hurry so i will read all the guides and come pack after i had known much more about watercooling so consider this thread cloosed now until i read more and get more experience i will be back and post in this thread after a week or two after reading the guides

 

[Shadow703793]

if you are gonna spend that much cash u might want to grab a waterchiller as well.
But really i think many of your components migh be overkill, especially since you dont seem to mention any watercooling for HDDs, Mosfets, Ram..

I dont know that deposit but if its a front bay one or something like that id recomend this 1:

http://www.tienda-traxtore.com/tienda/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&codp=5134

1. Absolutely no need to WC HDDs or RAM. RAM may be WCed if going for some crazy RAM OC. Again, MOSFETs may be WCed if going for high OC.

2. The pump (the AC one) is an overkill but you can never have too much rad .

3. A chiller is again, not needed unless OP plans to do crazy OC.

 

[xtc28]

what Shadow said

 

[masteryoda34]

This a VERY ambitious build for a first time watercooler. I would recommend that you read lots of guides. Even then, guides are no substitute for experience. I would also recommend that you start out with a simple CPU only loop, and then add more blocks in when you feel more comfortable.

There are very cases that one monta rad will fit in. I doubt you will find any normal case that can comforatably fit two. You should probably be better off with two 120x4 radiators instead.

 

[Houndsteeth]

I would second the idea of starting with a slightly less ambitious build for the first time. A CPU loop is a very good intro to water cooling, and the reward is very high if you plan to get a nice OC. You can add the GPU into the loop later.

Right now, read a lot on the best way to build your cooling loop. When you get all the pieces for your build, precut and dry fit all your tubing inside the case. If you have to, leave extra length in your loop just in case. You can always shorten the lines later. Once you are satisfied with the dry fit, build your loop outside the case, fill it with fluid and let it run, looking for any leaks you can find. I usually do this with a bunch of paper towels, and it is even more helpful to use food coloring in your distilled water so you can see exactly where your leaks are coming from.

Drain the loop once you have identified and fixed the leaks and place the loop in the case.

Here are a few tips that might help in your build:

1) Thread tape is your friend for the threaded barbs that have to fit into the radiator and water blocks

2) If you are setting up a 1/2" ID loop, try to use 7/16" tubing. It will make for a very tight fit around all the barbs without reducing your overall flow

3) When fitting a stubborn tubing onto a barb, some people are tempted to use lubricant to make the fitting easier. For me, all I do is heat up some distilled water in the microwave in a mug for about a minute and dip the tube end int the hot water. The tube will expand due to temperature and slide right onto the barb

4) Some people like to use the crimp-stype barb clamps, but I personally go with the worm-screw hose clamps myself. If you cannot get the variety with a smooth inner surface, then cut a small portion of the tubing the width of the clamp, slice it and use it to protect the tub from the clamp itself. Remember, the clamp is not there to make a water-tight bond, the barb should do that entirely on it's own. The clamp is there to keep the tubing on the barb.

5) For tight turns in your water loop, I used to buy the SwiftTech Coolsleeves product in order to keep the tubes from crimping, but then I discovered that over time the coils become brittle. Lately, I have been using plastic spiral binding coils, and these have been working like gangbusters. Check your local office supply store and buy an appropriate size for the OD of the tube you are using. Granted, these won't glow UV colors, but in this case, I rank function before form. Besides, it is about 10x cheaper.

6) If you can't mount the radiator internally and still maintain good airflow, look to see how you can mount the raditor to your case externally and run the tubes out of you case that way. Also, if you can set up the fans on your radiator in a push/pull config, you can increase the airflow considerably while running your fans at a lower RPM. Even if you have double the number of fans, they will be much quieter.

7) Radiant/air cooling should be sufficient for the Mosfets and RAM unless you are planning an extreme overclock. Just remember that even though your CPU and GPU are in a water cooling loop, you still have components on your mainboard that require airflow, so plan on leaving your case fan in place, though you can run it at a much lower speed. If you PSU Mosfets on the mainboard are located around the CPU block (most mainboard manufacturers do this because they expect airflow from the CPU fan) then you will need to locate a fan near them to provide enough airflow so they don't overheat. As you increase the voltage going into your CPU, these Mosfets will pump out more heat.

8) You can include your North Bridge into the loop if you want, but most of us veterans just stick an active HSF on that puppy (if one isn't already there) and call it a day. Remember, any change in voltage and you will want to have active cooling on the North Bridge, so plan to replace a passive heat sink with an active HSF if that is all there is.

9) Stage your hottest devices into the loop just before you dump the heat into the radiators. I usually like to have the CPU as the first device in the loop after the radiator/reservoir, then stage to the GPU. The reason being is that the GPU is designed to handle a lot more heat than the CPU. Besides, ina good loop, you shouldn't dump enough heat intot he loop from the CPU that your GPU will become overheated. Also note that your pump dumps heat into the loop as well.

Good luck!

 

[tomshardware user]

well this isn't my first build but it is my first watercooled build thanks Houndsteeth you gave me many helpful tips,i am looking forward to overclocking the i7 975 to 5 GHZ and i have read some people did it on air so i don't think this will be a crazy overclock,also i won't be cooling the rams,,or hdds,i will wc the processor,graphic cards,NB and SB and the mosfet,what about the gpu blocks do you think they will do the job well or not?i am really afraid and i may end up with finding someone with more experience than me in watercooling to put the parts up together,i have built many computers in the past but i have never watercooled any of them all the time i use an after market cooler only and build them and overclock and then i am ready to go,i really want to overclock because it seems worth the extra effort and extra money especially that i will throw a lot of cash in this build

edit:also this isn't a benchmark system,i don't care even if i got the worst score anyone can get but i need the best hardware,i will revise the watercooling parts and list them again after i have changed some things

 

[tomshardware user]

2x Feser X-Changer 480mm Xtreme Performance Radiator - Thermochill Killers!

2xXSPC Passive 500mm Reservoir - Silver

Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ SE Ultra High Finish Universal CPU Waterblock - Nickel Plated (LGA 1366 Ready!)

2x Eheim 1250 - A/C Powered (110V) Pump(i know it is an overkill and a pain to set up but I have heard many good things about it and that it is one of the top and i really think it will be better than the DDC3.2

20xPrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 7/16"ID 5/8" OD with 3/32" Wall - UV Blue

20x Primochill Reusable Hose Clamp [16mm, 5/8" OD] - Black

16xScythe DFS123812-3000 "ULTRA KAZE" 120 x 38 mm Case Fan - Retail

4xFeser One Non Conductive Cooling Fluid - 1000 ml - UV Blue (F1-0001)

gpu block ?

mosfet?

ram?

also will i need any other parts???

i am happy to tell you that i have a friend who told me that his uncle works in building,watercooling pc and overclocking in one of the prebuilt pc companies and that he will do it for me for only 200$ including building the pc itself and watercooling it and overclocking it too(i know how to overclock but i have never overclocked an i7 so i don't want to take the risk so i will let him do everything for me and i will be just drinking my favourite drink and watching lol

all what i have to do is choose the parts,i think i will cool the ram and mosfet because i am afraid of nothing now so i want extreme watercooling for extreme overclocking

note:i am willing to spend an amount of money on this build you won't be happy if you heard the number so that please tell me the best watercooling parts as i don't want to skimp on anything that will make the pc perform less

 

[Houndsteeth]

If you do plan on cooling the NB, SB and mosfets, you might want to consider a second cooling loop as opposed to trying to fit them into your CPU/GPU loop. The reason why is that you could very well introduce too much impingement for a single pump to handle adequately and provide enough flow to keep all your components cool. If you do go with a second loop, you can use a much smaller kit than your primary loop, say a lower flow rate pump, smaller ID tubing and a single rad instead of a triple or quad.

Going for 5 Ghz is extremely ambitious, and I wonder if even water cooling will be adequate enough for this. I have seen 4.2 Ghz on air, though I wouldn't run it at this speed for very long, and I have seen the same OC for a water cooled system that was stable, but to get 5 Ghz stable, you might just have to go for sub-ambient cooling like TC or phase-change. Even a water-chilled loop might work (such as evaporative cooling, or a phase change chiller in your reservoir). Just be aware that sub-ambient temps means you will have to use neoprene and dielectric grease around your water blocks and possibly even silicone conformal coating on your PCB components to prevent condensation from being a factor in your design. As I have only had the opportunity to go sub-ambient once (and boy was that a disaster - evaporative "water bong" experimental failure), I really can't give very good advice on this regard. Just expect your expense to go up and your MTTB to go up as well.

 

[rubix_1011]

Stop, stop stop...don't WC the MOSFETs, HDDs or the SB. NB...maybe. The MOSFETs are designed to run hot, they are solid state components. The southbridge, yes, it might seem hot, but you don't need it. It will only restrict your flow rates and you won't see any benefit from them. You only need good fans on those components (READ: good case airflow) and you will be perfectly fine. DDR2 and DDR3 run very cool as it is, even with heatspreaders. You do not need WC RAM blocks...at all. (<-stupid, but they make them for 'bling' purposes)

If your ultimate goal is to reach substantial overclocks, you are going to need to do a lot more research and use different methods, such as LN2 pots. You are also going to have to do some major hardware mods to your board to support this kind of speed/voltages needed. Watercooling does help in OC as your load temps are much more consistent and lower than air cooling (depending on setup...meaning...if you did your homework and setup the loop correctly).

 

[tomshardware user]

If you do plan on cooling the NB, SB and mosfets, you might want to consider a second cooling loop as opposed to trying to fit them into your CPU/GPU loop. The reason why is that you could very well introduce too much impingement for a single pump to handle adequately and provide enough flow to keep all your components cool. If you do go with a second loop, you can use a much smaller kit than your primary loop, say a lower flow rate pump, smaller ID tubing and a single rad instead of a triple or quad.

Going for 5 Ghz is extremely ambitious, and I wonder if even water cooling will be adequate enough for this. I have seen 4.2 Ghz on air, though I wouldn't run it at this speed for very long, and I have seen the same OC for a water cooled system that was stable, but to get 5 Ghz stable, you might just have to go for sub-ambient cooling like TC or phase-change. Even a water-chilled loop might work (such as evaporative cooling, or a phase change chiller in your reservoir). Just be aware that sub-ambient temps means you will have to use neoprene and dielectric grease around your water blocks and possibly even silicone conformal coating on your PCB components to prevent condensation from being a factor in your design. As I have only had the opportunity to go sub-ambient once (and boy was that a disaster - evaporative "water bong" experimental failure), I really can't give very good advice on this regard. Just expect your expense to go up and your MTTB to go up as well.

whatttttttttt 4.2GHZ:S:S?!!!!!! i have seen people going on 4.2 while using an i7 920 D0 stepping if they overclock to the same speed so why do people bother with getting the i7 975,i know it has unlocke multiplier but i thought that i will be able to overclock to atleast 4.5 GHZ especially when using these high end watercooling components,

editk i will be watercooling the cpu,GPu only so will i need more than 1 loop ?

 

[Shadow703793]

^No, only 1 loop.

i am happy to tell you that i have a friend who told me that his uncle works in building,watercooling pc and overclocking in one of the prebuilt pc companies and that he will do it for me for only 200$

That's a decent price. I charge about the same for a build of this kind including OC. (I include RAID set up, OS installation/optimization)

note:i am willing to spend an amount of money on this build you won't be happy if you heard the number so that please tell me the best watercooling parts as i don't want to skimp on anything that will make the pc perform less

What you have selected so far are top end products.

Don't forget to get a relay for the AC water pump! I highly recommend you get a D5 (MCP655) and not bother with an AC pump. At full speed the D5 dilivers about the same flow as the 1250.

See specs: http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp655.asp (For D5/MCP655)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2741 (1250)
Note: The flow rate. Both are about 317 GPH. The D5 may be 1-2GPM lower, but it's really not worth the $100 +$30 for the pump and relay for the 1250.

Again, you do NOT/SHOULD NOT need/get that Feser One Non Conductive Cooling Fluid. See: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226632
and it cost too much. Just go with distilled + PT Nuke or KillCoils.

 

[tomshardware user]

i am sorry guys that i am wasting your time,i know some of you might wanna kill me now but i liked your ideas i will change my parts again so i will be cooling now only the gpu and CPu will i need more than 1 loop ?

 

[Conumdrum]

No.
DON't use plumbers tape on ANY fittings. They are sealed by orings, no need for plumbers tape. Plubmers tpae can crack acrylic because you enllarged the thread size. Pieces can come off and get into the micro pins, clogging your loop.

Don't worry a lot about the order of components. Res before pump (must adhere to this rule) and CPU after rad IF it works out best for tube routing. The difference in temps in the water anywhere in the loop is rather small, 1-1.5C max.

 

[Houndsteeth]

Conumdrum,

I can understand the issue with the thread tape on acetal or acrylic threads (though I have had absolutely NO issues myself in the past as long as you keep the thread tape to 1-2 loops around the threads), but for metal-metal fittings (like the rad) it is an absolute MUST to prevent you from having to crank it down tight on the O-rings. Also, O-rings are great, but I have had too many situations where I have come back 6 months after build and had to replace the rings because they have just plain rotted out (rubber does that if you keep it under pressure and it stays dry). As for pieces coming off...you must be using really cheap stuff, cause I only use teflon thread tape and it has never dissolved or come apart on me in all of the builds I have been a part of to date.

To be completely honest, I was proposing the second loop only because the OP seems set on getting a 5 Ghz OC. MOSFETS, NB, SB, RAM...these can all be adequately cooled using passive airflow and active HSF as opposed to adding into the loop or running on second loop.

As for getting 5 Ghz, that is not actually as much a limitation on the part of the cooling (though it does play a factor) as much as it is a part of the voltages you will have to push pushing through the mainboard. When I was talking about 4.2 Ghz stable, that means the machine has been tested to run at load for a specified period of time without failing, not just that the machine will post or boot. I have had some success at getting faster OCs than this, but they were not stable at all. It would post and boot, but five minutes into testing at load, it will fail and reboot. It's not just the CPU, either, but every component on the mainboard, as you will be running the FSB at higher frequencies and need to compensate by increasing the voltage accordingly, and all it takes is one weak link in the chain that can make an OC attempt come to a crashing halt (literally).

Now, you ask why should you water cool and not air cool if you can achieve the same results either way? Because I would never-ever ever ever, run a machine at that speed on air cooling alone for any length of time. It drastically shortens the component life once you start seeing temps over 70° C (which you will never see with water cooling).

 

[tomshardware user]

No.
DON't use plumbers tape on ANY fittings. They are sealed by orings, no need for plumbers tape. Plubmers tpae can crack acrylic because you enllarged the thread size. Pieces can come off and get into the micro pins, clogging your loop.

Don't worry a lot about the order of components. Res before pump (must adhere to this rule) and CPU after rad IF it works out best for tube routing. The difference in temps in the water anywhere in the loop is rather small, 1-1.5C max.

sorry i didn't understand what do u mean by plumbers tape ?

 

[tomshardware user]

here is what i came through after the recommendations

Laing D5 Vario/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12V DC Pump with speed controller

XSPC Reservoir Top for Laing DDC

2xFeser X-Changer 480mm Xtreme Performance Radiator - Thermochill Killers!

Swiftech Apogee™ GTZ SE Ultra High Finish Universal CPU Waterblock - Nickel Plated (LGA 1366 Ready!)

20xPrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT Tubing 7/16"ID 5/8" OD with 3/32" Wall - UV Blue

20x Primochill Reusable Hose Clamp [16mm, 5/8" OD] - Black

16xScythe DFS123812-3000 "ULTRA KAZE" 120 x 38 mm Case Fan - Retail

3xSwiftech MCW60-R2 GPU Waterblock

3xSwiftech GTX 200 Mounting Hardware for MCW60-R/R2

also what it is the bets fitting brand ?

 

[rubix_1011]

Teflon tape. Don't use.

 

[tomshardware user]

Teflon tape. Don't use.

aha thanks i got it,so i don't really know whether to take Houndsteeth's advice or Conumdrum one any other opinion also please tell me about the revised list?

 

[tomshardware user]

Conumdrum,

I can understand the issue with the thread tape on acetal or acrylic threads (though I have had absolutely NO issues myself in the past as long as you keep the thread tape to 1-2 loops around the threads), but for metal-metal fittings (like the rad) it is an absolute MUST to prevent you from having to crank it down tight on the O-rings. Also, O-rings are great, but I have had too many situations where I have come back 6 months after build and had to replace the rings because they have just plain rotted out (rubber does that if you keep it under pressure and it stays dry). As for pieces coming off...you must be using really cheap stuff, cause I only use teflon thread tape and it has never dissolved or come apart on me in all of the builds I have been a part of to date.

To be completely honest, I was proposing the second loop only because the OP seems set on getting a 5 Ghz OC. MOSFETS, NB, SB, RAM...these can all be adequately cooled using passive airflow and active HSF as opposed to adding into the loop or running on second loop.

As for getting 5 Ghz, that is not actually as much a limitation on the part of the cooling (though it does play a factor) as much as it is a part of the voltages you will have to push pushing through the mainboard. When I was talking about 4.2 Ghz stable, that means the machine has been tested to run at load for a specified period of time without failing, not just that the machine will post or boot. I have had some success at getting faster OCs than this, but they were not stable at all. It would post and boot, but five minutes into testing at load, it will fail and reboot. It's not just the CPU, either, but every component on the mainboard, as you will be running the FSB at higher frequencies and need to compensate by increasing the voltage accordingly, and all it takes is one weak link in the chain that can make an OC attempt come to a crashing halt (literally).

Now, you ask why should you water cool and not air cool if you can achieve the same results either way? Because I would never-ever ever ever, run a machine at that speed on air cooling alone for any length of time. It drastically shortens the component life once you start seeing temps over 70° C (which you will never see with water cooling).

which edition of i7 do u have?

edit:i don't think i will need to achieve more than 4.2 GHz because this is for day use not for benchmarking

 

[Conumdrum]

Don't worry about your overclock yet, you'll be able to OC. Worry more about leaking, filling, installing. Get it booted up, stable running, then OC. You'll get a great OC with the water loop your planning depending on the chip, mobo, your ability.

Houndsteeth, you can use it if you wish. All the other forums I frquent all have the same input. One person says to use it, everyone else says don't. I don't know what rad your running or the o-rings, or the fittings your using.

I don't, everyone else here doesn't use Teflon/plubers tape. It's designed for copper/brass NPT pipes, we don't have any NPT tapered fittings in any modern WC loop anymore. Of course you CAN use them, but NPT isn't G1/4 threads either, the WC standard now.

 

[Conumdrum]

OP: Hope you got bad hearing. I can imagine the noise your gonna have with those fans.

Best fitting brand? Lots of us like Bitspower fittings. Good looking too!
DangerDen fatboys are rebadged Bitspower.