Extremetech compares DVI quality some surprises !!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 4, 2003

<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1370500,00.asp" target="_new">ExtremeTech</A> takes a look of the quality of the DVI output of various ATI and nVidia cards. Some surprises in the MSI FX5900 and R9500/9700 and TYAN R9800pro-m.

Loving the look of my R9600Pro 😎 especially against the FX5600s. :evil:

<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1370500,00.asp" target="_new">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1370500,00.asp</A>

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

sargeduck · Nov 5, 2003

Nice read. I like how my 9600Pro beats the 5900 (again!)
But it's really a moot point with me, seeing as how I have a crt hooked up to my dvi plug.

ahhh, dual 17" crt goodness.

Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue

CasualCat2001 · Nov 5, 2003

Nice post as usual G Ape

...just popping in to say hi, since I haven't posted in a long while.

Ris3n_Da3mon · Nov 5, 2003

poo, my r9700 pro is the only bba that fails 🙁

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 5, 2003

Hey you're back, we thought you were dead!

You look good!

(adapted from MIB-II)

How's the card holding up?

I am happy to see you're still out there, even if you don't post much anymore.

It... it... brings a tear to my eye. :lol:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

lhgpoobaa · Nov 5, 2003

heh like a rehash of the ti4 and 8500 days.
ATI allways did have the IQ advantage.

I am not a AMD fanboy.
I am not a Via fanboy.
I am not a ATI fanboy.
I AM a performance fanboy.
And a low price fanboy.

Regards,
Mr no integrity coward.

Unit01 · Nov 5, 2003

Interesting. Thanks for the link
will have to read it through later on

Wooba Wooba

phsstpok · Nov 5, 2003

I wouldn't have thought it possible!

How could they screw up digital communications?

It would really piss me off if I bought a 19" panel or larger (not that it's going to happen) only to find I can't use it in it's native resolution because of idiotic video card designs!

56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!Edited by phsstpok on 11/05/03 11:24 AM.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 5, 2003

Yep, and considering most people rely on this to give them a 'truer' picture in proffesional environments, it's pretty surprising. I would've like to see the Matrox Parhelia (check to see what the different RAMDAC speeds [400/400/165] do to the output [not sure if the 165 can reach a DVI connector or just VGA]) and G550, and a FireGL (which considering the good performance of the BBA cards would likely mimic that and be the equal of the Quadros in that respect IMO).

However yeah, very revealing, and it would miff me alot seeing that my card is holding back my new $2000+ monitor. This is also a good reason why the SoftGL and SoftQuadros aren't quite the same cards IMO.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

phsstpok · Nov 5, 2003

Well DVI vs VGA connections. I wonder if this is once again an issue. In the early days DVI was generally considered to be better than VGA but now VGA might be your only choice to get native resolutions with certain video card/LCD panel combinations.

I'm just speculating since I don't know if high-end panels even have a VGA connector these days. However, if it is a factor, in view of these findings, maybe the DVI vs VGA IQ comparisons ought to be put back into reviews.

However yeah, very revealing, and it would miff me alot seeing that my card is holding back my new $2000+ monitor.

It would be even worse if you realized your $400 video card was not only holding back your $2000+ monitor but also, a $200 video card would do a better job.

56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 6, 2003

Wanna see the best Card + Monitor technology on offer right now. <A HREF="http://www.matrox.com/mga/archive_story/sept2003/p_hr256.cfm" target="_new">Look at this Combo</A>.
Matrox HR256 with a QUXGA IBM LCD monitor SCHWeEeT!
That's a $2500 card with a $5000+ LCD.

I think DVI isn't dead (far from it IMO), I suspect it's only the gaming quality cards that have wishy-washy components.

I just think it'd be a surprise for the pro-sumer who thought they had spent wisely on a BBA 9700Pro, and it turned out their card failed to deliver on expect quality.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

phsstpok · Nov 6, 2003

That's insane! 3840 x 2400 in only a 22.2" display. Amazing pixel density!

I didn't say anything about DVI being dead.

56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!

CasualCat2001 · Nov 6, 2003

..card is holding up fine

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 6, 2003

I didn't say anything about DVI being dead.

Yeah, I know, just my read of what your words imply. Not that you said it, but a move towards VGA connectors would imply a reason for it. Just a take on your take.

Sorry for putting words in your finger tips.

As for the IBM's yes they are AWESOME, and they originally came with Pivture-in-Picture function too. I put in a request at work for one 2 years ago when they first came out, just to get the rejection letter explination, why my more desktop space for greater productivity didn't justify a nearly $15,000 expenditure at that time

. I still have the rejection letter at work as a keepsake (and also hoping it will help me on my current request).
Funny thing is that my CRT at work (21" IBM P260) had a DVI connector too. I run it at 1920x1440, and would love even MORE space if I could get it. Actually I'm now pushing for a parhelia and 2 older P202s (my old monitor which we have a few in storage) for multi-head work. Mmmm Productive! 😎

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

phsstpok · Nov 6, 2003

I only mentioned VGA connectors because though some of the cards had restricted resolution when using the DVI interface those same cards would not be restricted at their VGA connectors. If some poor consumer had made an unfortunate choice of a video card with restricted DVI output then he/she might have to make the decision between getting a new video card, using the reduced resolution at less the flatpanel's native resolution, or operating in VGA mode.

That's all I was saying.

56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!Edited by phsstpok on 11/06/03 01:20 AM.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 6, 2003

Yeah, no problem, I was just thinking on a different level, while being distracted mby TV and such, I often do that to my detrmient. I realized after re-reading it that I had misread it. But no problem, my bad. 😱

The thing is imagine those who bought the early Tyan Tachyon R9600Pro with dual dvi (they were withdrawn from the market too), they may have bought it for large panels, and now have NO alternate. Oie!

Anywho, doesn't matter to me now as I offloaded (in a good way) my old LCD onto a friend. I still have my laptops, but they aren't the same (although I do use them alot for posting [like now watching, the SCORE sports wrap-up while writing])

However I have been looking for a new LCD to match the place in my heart the old Samsung 171M had. Just waiting for faster pixel refresh (I hate seing ghosting while watching video in another window).

Anywhoo, yeah runing outside of native or running VGA defeats the whole idea.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

phsstpok · Nov 6, 2003

I was just thinking on a different level, while being distracted mby TV and such, I often do that to my detrmient I realized after re-reading it that I had misread it. But no problem, my bad.

I thought it had to be something like that. Don't worry about it.

Lately, I've been reading a lot of 1st posts, 1st paragraphs, even 1st sentences and blanking out on the remainder of threads.

I don't know why distractions work that way but they sometimes do.

However I have been looking for a new LCD to match the place in my heart the old Samsung 171M had. Just waiting for faster pixel refresh (I hate seing ghosting while watching video in another window).

What is the general consensus on how fast pixel response time needs to be for good gaming? 20 ms? 16 ms? faster?

56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!

phsstpok · Nov 6, 2003

..card is holding up fine

Well, you would think differently if you had a nice new 1600x1200 LCD panel but your video card was restricted to 1280x1024 due to the poor DVI implementation.

56K, slow and steady does not win the race on internet!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Nov 6, 2003

It appears that they have changed their speed ratings. In most cases the the 16ms is SLOWER than the 20ms, as there is an 'average' time of some kind coming into play. Most reviews have found that the 20ms screens are actually faster and the 16ms would better represent an old measure of like 22-24ms.

I know that there are some 14 and 12ms screens in the pipe, but I'm not sure if that is with the new measurment meathod or what. The 20ms ones are the current best gaming monitors, whereas the 16ms are being CALLED gaming monitors which they aren't.
I have also read that some of the response times are greatly affected by things like contrast and such, and you can up/lower the refresh by changing the contrast.
I'll see if I can dig up that article, it was a VERY good look at monitors. The funny thing is the Samsung 19 inch displays showed incredible difference bewteen the VGA only and the Hybrid model. The VGA only model had great contrast and response levels (best in class), and the Hybrid was in the middle of the pack. Same model.Very disappointing, as that's the type of monitor I would like.

I'll se if I can find that review. I think it's from X-bit.

I'll be back with it if it's in my bookmarks.

EDIT: <A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/response-3.html" target="_new">ok here it is and yes it was at Xbit.</A>

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 11/06/03 01:37 PM.

Extremetech compares DVI quality some surprises !!

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