[SOLVED] Fan and Heat Related Problems with Blue Tooth Mouse

[gammonGo]

I have a self-built PC with the specs listed below. But do not assume that I know what I'm doing; I barely managed to cobble it together with help from others (and this board).

• CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X (9H18084090381)
• Board: Gigabyte B450M DS3H

• PS: PowerSpec PS 650BSM
• SSD: Inland Pro 2.5" SATA III 6Gb/s (512 GB)
• HDD: Seagate BarraCuda 3.5" Internal (2 TB)
• Video: NVIDIA GeForce GT 710
• Wireless/Blue Tooth card: ASUS PCE-AC55BT (new)
• Case: NZXTH 510
• Windows 10 Home

The problem I'm having is that whenever the fan kicks on, the blue tooth mouse "hesitates" (for lack of a better description). That is, it acts the same way it acts when the microwave is on or its battery is low. I desperately need to fix this problem.

I have tried mutliple USB slots for the blue tooth receiver and tried other bluetooth mice.

Note that I sometimes have a pen tablet hooked up at the same time. But usually the tablet is not plugged into its USB cable and the problem still happens, so I don't think it's having any effect

Also note that two days ago I installed a BlueTooth and WiFi card and the problem got worse. I haven't figured out yet how to configure the card. I still have the regular ethernet connector to my Router.

The mouse also sometimes hesitate when web pages are loading or other processing is happening in the background. But since it most often occurs when the fan kicks on and off, I suspect there's a heat problem causing the motherboard to not notice the USB (or something).

Wired mouses (like the trackpoint built into my keyboard) do not experience this problem.

I opened up the case and dusted everything on the grounds that might contribute to heat problems. But that had no affect.

How can I find and fix this issue?

 

[Colif]

whenever the fan kicks on, the blue tooth mouse "hesitates"

what fan?

what heat problems?
how many intake fans on pc?
https://www.nzxt.com/products/h510-matte-white

 

[Colif]

i think i understand some of the heat problem, the case has very little intake

I know you don't have elite but the problems are more or less the same, sealed up front not letting cool air into case, do you have 2 exhaust fans?
What temps are you getting?

Cases are often the last thing thought of, like PSU (looks at yours...) and I know my first one would make that look amazing in comparison. It took me a few PC to work out it helps if the parts inside PC actually got some air, it wasn't a priority for me. Now 5 computers later I am probably too far in opposite direction, wishing people wouldn't buy fish tanks for their PC to suffocate in, and wishing I had a better case.

 

[gammonGo]

what fan?

what heat problems?
how many intake fans on pc?
https://www.nzxt.com/products/h510-matte-white

Not sure how to answer this. There is one fan on top, which I assume is outtake. There is one fan on the back, near the top, which I assume is an intake. There is also a grille on the bottom, near the power supply, but I it doesn't have a fan there. So I think it has a single intake and single outflow.

There is also a fan on the CPU itself.

I'm not sure which is the one that switches on when the mouse has problems. It's whichever one is loud enough for me to hear. I noticed that when I went to look at them now, all of them are on. So I think what I'm hearing is one of them shifting into high gear.

 

[gammonGo]

i think i understand some of the heat problem, the case has very little intake

I know you don't have elite but the problems are more or less the same, sealed up front not letting cool air into case, do you have 2 exhaust fans?
What temps are you getting?

Cases are often the last thing thought of, like PSU (looks at yours...) and I know my first one would make that look amazing in comparison. It took me a few PC to work out it helps if the parts inside PC actually got some air, it wasn't a priority for me. Now 5 computers later I am probably too far in opposite direction, wishing people wouldn't buy fish tanks for their PC to suffocate in, and wishing I had a better case.

I think I have only the one exhaust fan (see another reply I just posted in this thread).

I don't know what temps I'm getting. I have CrystalDiskInfo installed to monitor my SSD's temperature (because I once thought it was having heat problems. Can I use that to find the temperature you're asking about? If not, how can I check the temps?

One side of the case is just a glass barrier (so I can see the pretty CPU's lights... which are facing away from me). Can I just take that off or will too much dust get in?

I'll check out the video you posted now. But the thing is, I don't think this is solely a heat problem. It seems the heat is affecting whatever the USB receiver is plugged into.

Let me know how to get that temp and I'll report back.

 

[Colif]

I know you learning but you built pc, you should know which way the fans are running.
Having the rear as intake and the top as exhaust leaves a lot of the case getting no air

The fans should always be on, not turning on/off... revving up makes more sense

fans changing speed shouldn't affect the mouse, how is the Bluetooth mouse controlled? a USB Dongle?

how hot do parts get in there?

try setting this up, it will help you see temps inside PC, I am also curious

Info - How to use HWINFO to track Sensor values on Ryzen

Download HWINFO - https://www.hwinfo.com/download/ when you open the app, click the tick box next to show sensors only, and click run in the next window, click on the gear icon in bottom right, this opens settings. On General tab, under polling period, set it to 500 and click the set button...

forums.tomshardware.com

PSU is Microcenters home brand, it might be why you have the hiccups when things want power - link

 

[Colif]

the case is badly designed, as video states, although you don't have the glass fronted one, the effect is the same.
I would consider buying another case with a more open front so air can pass through instead of circulating around the CPU

If back is intake and top is exhaust, any air gets sucked into CPU and sent out top. Where is the ssd, sata shouldn't get that hot. I thought it was an nvme, they are more likely to be that hot.

Case is cooking parts.

and if you can't describe, show photos or screenshots. upload to imgur and show links here

taking glass side off is one solution but its not the ideal one.

 

[Colif]

check fans, both as exhausts might work a little better as it would suck the heat out at least. And any intakes can be the little cracks in case.

https://landing.coolermaster.com/faq/how-to-determine-the-airflow-direction-of-your-case-fans/#:~:text=When looking at our fans,that houses the fan motor.

if you don't understand any of the hwinfo guide, let me know as I only did it recently, could be missing something obvious

 

[gammonGo]

I know you learning but you built pc, you should know which way the fans are running.
Having the rear as intake and the top as exhaust leaves a lot of the case getting no air

The fans should always be on, not turning on/off... revving up makes more sense

fans changing speed shouldn't affect the mouse, how is the Bluetooth mouse controlled? a USB Dongle?

how hot do parts get in there?

try setting this up, it will help you see temps inside PC, I am also curious

Info - How to use HWINFO to track Sensor values on Ryzen

Download HWINFO - https://www.hwinfo.com/download/ when you open the app, click the tick box next to show sensors only, and click run in the next window, click on the gear icon in bottom right, this opens settings. On General tab, under polling period, set it to 500 and click the set button...

forums.tomshardware.com

PSU is Microcenters home brand, it might be why you have the hiccups when things want power - link

Yeah, I thought it would be easy to detect that too. But the problem is the fans spin too fast for me to detect which way they're spinning. I just used a tissue to judge and I think both of the fans in the top are exhaust fans, and there is no intake fane. The link you provided above is the exact model I have. In the last pic you can see the two exhaust fans I mention.

As far as I recall, both fans only fit in one way. Your post implies that I had a choice. It may be that the problem is that I put one of them on the wrong way.

As for which one is switching on, from experimentation I think it's the CPU fan that's switching on when the mouse starts to hesitate. I basically started my PC on a long processing job and watched as the CPU fan kicked into high gear.

Yes, the wireless mouse is controlled by a USB Dongle. To be fair, I'm not certain that it's blue tooth, just that it's wireless.

I'm working on setting up HWINFO. I'm not sure the relevance of what you're saying about PSU.

I think that answers everything. You all post faster than I can investigate and reply.

 

[gammonGo]

the case is badly designed, as video states, although you don't have the glass fronted one, the effect is the same.
I would consider buying another case with a more open front so air can pass through instead of circulating around the CPU

If back is intake and top is exhaust, any air gets sucked into CPU and sent out top. Where is the ssd, sata shouldn't get that hot. I thought it was an nvme, they are more likely to be that hot.

Case is cooking parts.

and if you can't describe, show photos or screenshots. upload to imgur and show links here

taking glass side off is one solution but its not the ideal one.

Yeah, the guy was really harping on the temperature for that whole video. I do have the one with the glass side (not front). It is exactly this model here.

I mis-described the two fans. They both seem to be exhaust. I'm not sure where the intake is. But note that there is a grill near the bottom (where the power supply is) and a vertical strip grill near the front, below the power button. You can see the vertical grill in the fourth picture at this page, to see what I mean.

The SSD is mounted on the side opposite the glass. Check the third picture at that same link to see what I mean. I don't know where (or what) the SATA is. I also don't know NVME.

So far, I took out the Wireless/BlueTooth card. It had no effect. I didn't take off the glass yet, in part because I want to get the temperature readings and in part because I'm not sure that it's solely heat related.

 

[gammonGo]

check fans, both as exhausts might work a little better as it would suck the heat out at least. And any intakes can be the little cracks in case.

https://landing.coolermaster.com/faq/how-to-determine-the-airflow-direction-of-your-case-fans/#:~:text=When looking at our fans,that houses the fan motor.

if you don't understand any of the hwinfo guide, let me know as I only did it recently, could be missing something obvious

OK, both fans are indisputably exhaust, but I think the CPU fan is an intake!

I took the advanced technique of turning off the PC, sitting on the other side and pressing the power button and watched the fans start up! Not sure why I didn't think of the obvious before now, but I feel about as stupid as could be. Anyway, they're both exhaust. But the CPU fan seems to be blowing into the CPU.

I installed HWINFO. It's pretty nice (but for a few quirks). I have it set as suggested, to Global: 500. I also set to Fahrenheit. The problem is there's so much info, not sure what I'm looking at. What info do you suggest?

Incidentally, thanks much for sticking with me!

 

[Colif]

Sorry about multiple replies, just thought of new things and can never tell if the person I am answering might be replying as I type.

ssd might get more chance of being cool if its on front side of the case, where at least the 2 exhausts are.

the cpu fan would only rev up to cool the cpu down, so taking side off would likely remove its need to do that.

CPU fan blows air into the Heatsink its attached to, to cool CPU. Its problem is the only air its getting is coming from already hot parts in the PC. An actual intake fan would feed the CPU fan with cool air for it to blow at CPU, but the intake fan needs a way to get cool air and as you can tell in your case, fact it came with 2 exhausts means they knew it didn't have much intake apart from that hole near the PSU, which is there to keep PSU itself cool

HWINFO sensors broken into sections
top one shows memory
next shows cpu usage
next is memory timings
next is CPU temperatures - CPU CCD1 is the average temperature of all the cores in your CPU
Next area is Motherboard temperatures and statistics
Next area is storage
last area is Graphics card

You probably want to look at CPU, Motherboard & Storage temperatures

I knocked my reading glasses off my face earlier and i need to get a lens put back in, I may not be much good until I get those back. So might not answer as fast next time

 

[Colif]

You could set up icons in task bar to track Avg CPU temp, Storage temps and maybe System temp sensors.

I expect its a little toasty in there if SSD is hitting 60

SATA= the cable connection your ssd has with the motherboard
NVME - New type of ssd, goes on motherboard instead of in a box like ssd, can be up to 5x faster but also run warmer, Wouldn't be ideal in that case.

NVMe vs. M.2 vs. SATA – What’s the Difference?

Do NVMe SSDs differ from standard SATA drives? And do all M.2 drives classify as NVMe? We break down NVMe vs. M.2 vs. SATA here.

www.velocitymicro.com

 

[gammonGo]

Sorry about multiple replies, just thought of new things and can never tell if the person I am answering might be replying as I type.

ssd might get more chance of being cool if its on front side of the case, where at least the 2 exhausts are.

the cpu fan would only rev up to cool the cpu down, so taking side off would likely remove its need to do that.

CPU fan blows air into the Heatsink its attached to, to cool CPU. Its problem is the only air its getting is coming from already hot parts in the PC. An actual intake fan would feed the CPU fan with cool air for it to blow at CPU, but the intake fan needs a way to get cool air and as you can tell in your case, fact it came with 2 exhausts means they knew it didn't have much intake apart from that hole near the PSU, which is there to keep PSU itself cool

HWINFO sensors broken into sections
top one shows memory
next shows cpu usage
next is memory timings
next is CPU temperatures - CPU CCD1 is the average temperature of all the cores in your CPU
Next area is Motherboard temperatures and statistics
Next area is storage
last area is Graphics card

You probably want to look at CPU, Motherboard & Storage temperatures

I knocked my reading glasses off my face earlier and i need to get a lens put back in, I may not be much good until I get those back. So might not answer as fast next time

You could set up icons in task bar to track Avg CPU temp, Storage temps and maybe System temp sensors.

I expect its a little toasty in there if SSD is hitting 60

SATA= the cable connection your ssd has with the motherboard
NVME - New type of ssd, goes on motherboard instead of in a box like ssd, can be up to 5x faster but also run warmer, Wouldn't be ideal in that case.

NVMe vs. M.2 vs. SATA – What’s the Difference?

Do NVMe SSDs differ from standard SATA drives? And do all M.2 drives classify as NVMe? We break down NVMe vs. M.2 vs. SATA here.

www.velocitymicro.com

Multiple replies not a concern. Though until a few moments ago I thought I had two different threads going on in here.

I don't think the SSD is getting hot. Also, I'm not even sure how I'd move it, since it's in one of those bays in the third picture and I don't think there's anywhere else to put it.

As for HWINFO, I don't have "CPU Package" (as in the video). I think my sections are organized different. I don't have a CCD1 sensor. Here is the section after "MemoryTimings".

To be clear, the SSD is not hitting 60. It's rarely spiking to near 60. Since the 19th (two days) it has spiked to 57 and 54 (once each).

I think my SSD is NVME. Somewhere in browsing around today gathering info I saw NVME (maybe it was in HWiNFO), so I think it is that type.

Anyway, I need to go to bed now, so will not be able to pick this up for a little while. I'm going to try to figure out what to monitor and how I can keep a log of the temperature history.

As I said before, thanks. I hope you can get your glasses fixed.

 

[Colif]

I can see similarities on that chart, left is mine, right is yours

i can't tell you what they all mean though
Your CPU temps are below mine, many of yours are in fact, my cpu must run warmer
most temps look okay, its hard for me as I am used to C so I am not good at converting them.
was this with side of the case on?

I have to remember that this GPU isn't much of a heat source, but if you were to ever put a better GPU in its likely to create problems. The only big heat source in your PC is CPU and it has 3 fans to itself, so maybe you okay.

Inland Pro 2.5" SATA III 6Gb/s

if it goes in the back slots its just a normal ssd.
https://www.amazon.com/Inland-Professional-512GB-Internal-Solid/dp/B088KLZKPQ

okay, safe range is 0 to 70 but you don't really want to be near either extreme
I am pretty sure I got below that in my last case but that is not a fair comparison, my last case is still top of the air cooling charts on Gamers Nexus so its really not fair to compare against anything made in the last 10 years. I wanted to try water cooling this time so I couldn't reuse that case. I seem to recall getting ssd to 16c in that in the first few months I had that pc.

could be not a lot of airflow behind motherboard tray since both fans are in exhaust.

Logging
i was going to show you before but I was really tired.
On the buttons at bottom on sensors screen, click on the button to the right of the clock. It shows "Logging start" if you hover over ir.
Once clicked it opens file explorer, create a log file for each day you want to track them as I don't think it starts auto, it might be an option in settings.
you can read the output file in either excel or Google docs

notices your button just says logging start... well, that is more obvious than the icon they show me. Guess I didn't need to explain it

 

[gammonGo]

OK, here is the same picture but in Celsius. I updated it on Imgur, but I'm not sureif the link is consistent, so here it is again.

Still absorbing the rest of your reply, but is there a possibility this is not heat related?

 

[gammonGo]

More info regarding the SSD: It is in the slots that I think you're calling the back. In this pic

you can see it (the green label). Anyway, it's definitely not on the motherboard, so I guess that means it's not the newer, but hotter kind.

I have logging working. In Excel, I hid any column which didn't say "Temperature" and set up a color coding to find when it got hottest. It generates a lot of data and I'm going to do better testing later, so I won't upload these files yet.

I ran a lot of processes and encountered some hesitation, but not much. It's night time and most of the problems occur when the sun is out (another clue!) and when I'm teaching, with both MS OneNote and Zoom open. I opened both of those and ran some processing in the background. But with no students in my Zoom and no sun, it wasn't quite the same test. I'll test again tomorrow. It generates an awful lot of data, so I'm not going to upload those files now. Gonna wait till I get a better test. And I'll test it with the glass on and glass off.

Here's the thing, though: I'd like to be able to correspond the time when my PC starts "acting up" to the time in the log files. That is, I want to be able to write down the time when the mouse starts lagging and then look at those times in the log files. But the files are using some strange format. Do you understand the timestamp below? They were taken on 3/23/21 at around 3:09 am. It's like it's just skipping recording the hour.

Date	Time
23.3.2021	09:28.3​
23.3.2021	09:28.9​
23.3.2021	09:29.5​
23.3.2021	09:30.1​

I'm also a little concerned that this isn't entirely a heat issue. Yes, it gets worse -- much worse -- in the heat. But it's not exclusive happening when hot.

Anyway, I'm starting to agree with what you said above about "fish tank" cases. But it's probably too late for me.

Finally, you can get the buttons in HWINFO Sensor Window to show text instead of vague icons by clicking the "Config" button (the one that looks like a gear) and ticking "Text Buttons", which is the second option in the lower left of the General tab.

I'll be back with more data in a day or two.

P.S. The glass is not facing the sun!

 

[gammonGo]

Oh yeah, one more thing. I emailed NZXT and asked for a new fan.

The video you posted said that NZXT was giving something (I think a new fan) to people who had heat issues with this box. So I emailed them and they asked for my address and other info. I suppose a stronger fan might generate more throughput and keep things cooler. If that's what they're sending me (and if I can figure out how to replace it), then maybe that will help.

 

[Colif]

I will look later on, i doubt its purely heat as I think CPU runs cool enough at idle. Your CPU is about 5c cooler than mine on average and its max is 30c cooler than mine. Paradoxically, my hottest and coldest times normally happen right at boot times, gets really warm before the water cooler starts to do its job.

If its a physical thing causing the mouse issue, it might show in the data it collects.

My pc never gets any sunlight, and the case window is facing away from the window anyway.
it could just be an increase in the ambient temps in general

I assume its installed, you just can't get it to work?

only manual on Asus website not in English

 

[gammonGo]

Returning to this thread: I haven't had any sunny days yet, but I have another clue.

The mouse that's having the most problems is a "portable" mouse, for laptops. It has only 1 battery. I like small mice and specifically purchased MS Mobile Mouse 4000.

I had another MS mouse, but I can't find the receiver to test it out. But I recall it having the same problems.

I also have a Logitech M510. This mouse experiences the same issues, but not nearly as bad. It uses 2 batteries (but is too big for everyday use).

Thanks for the video above. Your videos by themselves make this thread a good resource. I have taken the blue tooth card out for the moment, till I can solve this problem.

 

[Colif]

One possibility is the increase in power needed by the fan to increase its speed might be enough to disrupt the power supply to the USB slot the mouse is in enough to make it stutter. The wired mouse might still be effected but its not noticeable.

it might show you that in the logs, although figuring out which columns to compare is fun part, I can guess one is rpm of the cpu fan, but what voltages to look at? maybe the 5volt rail. its not granular enough to show what the drops effect exactly.