Fast and heavy or poor and light

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> > In which part of the image - the focused or unfocused bits?
>
> On the off chance that this was not a rhetorical question,

It was not and I thank you for your answer :)

--
Mark Lauter

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

<snip>
> I am considering a harness system if I can then clip the camera (and
> the binocs?) to the harness.

ditto.. funny all this talk about army days has me thinking about an LBE
system.

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Mark Lauter

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
 
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:12:37 GMT, Matt Silberstein wrote:

>> Heavy cameras are more stable than light ones. It's a simple
>> matter of physics. It takes more energy to move or vibrate a
>> heavy object than a light one. The heavy camera therefore
>> doesn't move as much given the same inputs from the
>> photographer's hands.
>
> This is simple but misleading physics. A heavy camera also tires the
> muscles faster leading to a lose of control. I strongly suspect that
> there is a curve and that "medium" weight cameras are best.

You've identified a second factor but I don't see why it
invalidates the first or makes it "misleading". Heavier cameras
will tire you sooner, but whatever the weight, light, medium or
heavy, if the muscles tire you should rest.

In addition to the input from the hands that were implied (muscular
movement) there's also the movement caused by hydraulics. I find it
difficult to keep my heart from beating. :) The effect is quite
noticeable in the viewfinder when using long focal lengths, with the
image hopping around slightly in sync with my pulse. With shorter
lenses this movement will still be there, but it is less noticeable.
I think that lighter cameras (such as mine) are affected more by
this and find that I try to brace the camera more often than I used
to when I used a heavier film camera.

I don't know the details about how IS works, but one thing that
might help if it's not already being done, is in addition to
minimizing the effect of motion, would be for the camera to be able
to sense cyclic movement (such as due to blood pulses mentioned
above) and electronically delay the shutter release for a few
milliseconds until the cyclic movement reaches one extreme or the
other and the camera's movement is at its minimum. This could also
be a relatively low cost method that, because it's not moving any
lens elements or sensors, wouldn't consume much battery power.
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alan Meyer wrote:
>
> Heavy cameras are more stable than light ones. It's a simple
> matter of physics. It takes more energy to move or vibrate a
> heavy object than a light one. The heavy camera therefore
> doesn't move as much given the same inputs from the
> photographer's hands.

I actually played with strapping a big iron weight to my camera via the
tripod post & I did not get good results. I would have thought it should
help more.

A big heavy lens on a regular tripod bounces around like crazy. It's
really bad, one tap reverberates for a long time. The mirror flap really
makes waves.

I saw a web page where someone made a 'steadycam' setup with some 2-foot
pipes, a tee at the bottom and some barbell weights. Maybe it's
different for video but this sort of arrangement didn't help me with
still photos. Maybe put a gyroscope on the mount spinning in the
direction of a propeller facing forward. My task is photographing
flowers & bees at macro range, moving around following bugs & trying
many strange angles.
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Ahem. A small movement by the hand requires a countering movement to
> stop the first movement. As F=ma and E=1/2 mv^2 the force to counter is
> proportional to the mass, and the energy (fatigue) is as well.
>
> For example if you relax your left arm (under the lens) slightly, both a
> heavy camera and a light camera will go down. Bringing the lighter
> camera back to aim requires less energy.

But isn't that the point? It takes more energy to move a heavier camera, so
the effects of normal hand shake can be reduced. Now I'm getting the itch
to find a heavier camera to try this out. :)

--
Mark Lauter

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Mark Lauter wrote:

>>Ahem. A small movement by the hand requires a countering movement to
>>stop the first movement. As F=ma and E=1/2 mv^2 the force to counter is
>>proportional to the mass, and the energy (fatigue) is as well.
>>
>>For example if you relax your left arm (under the lens) slightly, both a
>>heavy camera and a light camera will go down. Bringing the lighter
>>camera back to aim requires less energy.
>
>
> But isn't that the point? It takes more energy to move a heavier camera, so
> the effects of normal hand shake can be reduced. Now I'm getting the itch
> to find a heavier camera to try this out. :)

Read the fine print... it takes no energy from you to let it fall, but
to stop it and restore it ... F=ma.

Cheers,
Alan



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-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Siddhartha Jain wrote:

> Most fast variable focal length lens with fixed aperture are heavy and
> expensive. The lighter variable focal length aren't great performers
> but are cheap. Why is this so?

Because people won't pay a lot of money for a high quality
slower/lightweight lens. In say the ledium format cameras, the slower
lenses are many times the better performers so speed doesn't always =
higher performance.

I'd MUCH rather have a f3.5-4.5 50-200 that was equal in quality to the f2.8
versions, but they aren't. They could make the smaller lenses just as good,
but they market them to a different audience so you have the $200 lens and
the $1000 lens. Shame they don't make a $700 version of the slower lens for
people who like high quality, but don't need a big heavy fast lens.

--

Stacey
 
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In article <Mkzbe.26165$5f.9227@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Mark Lauter
<available_upon_request@just_ask_in_a_post.com> wrote:

> > Ahem. A small movement by the hand requires a countering movement to
> > stop the first movement. As F=ma and E=1/2 mv^2 the force to counter is
> > proportional to the mass, and the energy (fatigue) is as well.
> >
> > For example if you relax your left arm (under the lens) slightly, both a
> > heavy camera and a light camera will go down. Bringing the lighter
> > camera back to aim requires less energy.
>
> But isn't that the point? It takes more energy to move a heavier camera, so
> the effects of normal hand shake can be reduced. Now I'm getting the itch
> to find a heavier camera to try this out. :)

This connection is not cause and effect.

Why is your hand shaking? Because of the muscle fatigue from trying to
hold it (and what's in it) still. And holding a heavy object creates
fatigue quicker.

I like the bat / golf club experiment. Hold both out and see which one
starts to shake first. It will be the bat, as your muscles fatigue.

If heavier were better, wouldn't there be a market for a lead weight
version of the old autowinder to connect to the tripod mount?

"Mine's 30 pounds, baybee! "
 
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In article <cvrbe.11502$RP1.11447@fe10.lga>,
joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman) wrote:

> It's a question of how much light you let in via the lens. If you
> have an enormous lens, you can let in a lot of light (faster lens),
> and get a higher quality picture (less noise).

Duh... the lightmeter determines the amount of light that enters the
camera, and at a certain light-level it will be the SAME with both a
slow and a fast lens; only the shutterspeed will be different.

Lourens
 
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"Steve Cutchen" <maxfaq@earthlink.net> wrote

> > But isn't that the point? It takes more energy to move a heavier
camera, so
> > the effects of normal hand shake can be reduced. Now I'm getting the
itch
> > to find a heavier camera to try this out. :)
>
> This connection is not cause and effect.

> Why is your hand shaking? Because of the muscle fatigue from trying to
> hold it (and what's in it) still. And holding a heavy object creates
> fatigue quicker.

It always shakes a little.

> If heavier were better, wouldn't there be a market for a lead weight
> version of the old autowinder to connect to the tripod mount?
>
> "Mine's 30 pounds, baybee! "

LOL!!

--
Mark Lauter

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote

> > But isn't that the point? It takes more energy to move a heavier
camera, so
> > the effects of normal hand shake can be reduced. Now I'm getting the
itch
> > to find a heavier camera to try this out. :)
>
> Read the fine print... it takes no energy from you to let it fall, but
> to stop it and restore it ... F=ma.

yeah, I think you're right.

--
Mark Lauter

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Lourens Smak" <smak@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:smak-A894C2.16471627042005@news.euronet.nl...
> In article <cvrbe.11502$RP1.11447@fe10.lga>,
> joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman) wrote:
>
> > It's a question of how much light you let in via the lens. If you
> > have an enormous lens, you can let in a lot of light (faster lens),
> > and get a higher quality picture (less noise).
>
> Duh... the lightmeter determines the amount of light that enters the
> camera, and at a certain light-level it will be the SAME with both a
> slow and a fast lens; only the shutterspeed will be different.
>
> Lourens

And the shutter speed affects noise level - particularly in marginal (dark)
conditions.

--
Jeff R.
(don't be too quick with the "duh")
 
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