fast healing stacking

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Can a Vigor spell (fast healing 2 or 4) stack with fast healing from the
warshaper's ability "morphic Healing" : gains fast healing 2. Vigor spell
notes that multiple castings don't stack, but nothing about 2 sources of
fast healing

basically, can fast healing stack?

Rich
 
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"Eyebyte" <rbrouwer@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3alomkF68ldabU1@individual.net...
> Can a Vigor spell (fast healing 2 or 4) stack with fast healing from the
> warshaper's ability "morphic Healing" : gains fast healing 2. Vigor spell
> notes that multiple castings don't stack, but nothing about 2 sources of
> fast healing
>
> basically, can fast healing stack?

Stop being an idiot in public.

-Michael
 
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Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> "Eyebyte" <rbrouwer@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:3alomkF68ldabU1@individual.net...
> > Can a Vigor spell (fast healing 2 or 4) stack with fast healing
from the
> > warshaper's ability "morphic Healing" : gains fast healing 2. Vigor
spell
> > notes that multiple castings don't stack, but nothing about 2
sources of
> > fast healing
> >
> > basically, can fast healing stack?
>
> Stop being an idiot in public.
>
> -Michael

I believe Michael means, no it doesn't.

- Justisaur
 
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Justisaur wrote:
> Michael Scott Brown wrote:
>
>>"Eyebyte" <rbrouwer@rogers.com> wrote in message
>>news:3alomkF68ldabU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>basically, can fast healing stack?
>>
>> Stop being an idiot in public.
>
> I believe Michael means, no it doesn't.

Specifically; it's bonuses that stack (or don't, as the case may
be), and fast healing is not described as a bonus.

Temporary sources will overlap, so you get the remaining effects of
longer lasting ones as the shorter, better ones run out.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
 
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Speaking of Fast Healing from the Vigor spell, I have yet to rule on it
in my game, and I was wondering if others thought it was over-powered?
Specifically, after the battle is over, it is strictly better than the
same level cure spell, because if time is not an issue, it heals more
points. During a battle it is also useful because it stops you bleeding
out and cures you on rounds you didn't get hurt.

I was thinking of house ruling it that it gives you fast healing, but
only for damage that occurs after the spell is in effect. Then it is a
good buff spell for before the battle starts, and you go into battle
somewhat protected (much like DR would do for you), but you can't
overshadow Cure Wounds.

Of course Vigor also can't be cast spontaneously, so that is one other
disadvantage.

What do others think? Are Vigor and its counterparts overpowered for
their level?

ROB
 
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Rob Douglas <rob_douglas@mac.com> wrote:
>Speaking of Fast Healing from the Vigor spell, I have yet to rule on it
>in my game, and I was wondering if others thought it was over-powered?
>Specifically, after the battle is over, it is strictly better than the
>same level cure spell, because if time is not an issue, it heals more
>points. During a battle it is also useful because it stops you bleeding
>out and cures you on rounds you didn't get hurt.
>
>I was thinking of house ruling it that it gives you fast healing, but
>only for damage that occurs after the spell is in effect.

That's how it was in the FR versions of the spell. Frankly, not
only was the bookkeeping a nightmare ("okay, you took a CLW potion
and cured four points of damage -- which damage pool does that
subtract off of?"), but the spell was less than useless then.


>Of course Vigor also can't be cast spontaneously, so that is one other
>disadvantage.

Right.


>What do others think? Are Vigor and its counterparts overpowered for
>their level?

In general, no. Specifically, it depends on how metamagic applies
(because of the "equal-level Vigor spells stack their durations" clause).


Here's a tangential question: does Fast Healing from a magical Healing
effect remove nonlethal damage like a Cure spell does (in an amount equal
to the points of lethal damage restored)? If not, then that's another
(minor) way the Vigor spells aren't abusive...

Donald
 
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Yeah, I used the wrong terminology in this case, but here is the gist
of it.

A Warshaper gains "fast healing" 2. If he's shapechanged into a
creature (solar) he also gets regeneration 15. I'm just trying to
figure out how this works:
1) the character is whacked for 20 points of damage (after DR).
Because of regeneration, all damage is essentially subdual (yes?)
2) On his round the character regenerates 15 points (now 5 off total)
and fast heals 2 more. Does the fast heal ever kick in or does it
overlap with regeneration? does the fast heal work seperately (is is a
completely seperate su ability) ?

Rich
 
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eyebyte wrote:
> Yeah, I used the wrong terminology in this case, but here is the gist
> of it.
>
> A Warshaper gains "fast healing" 2. If he's shapechanged into a
> creature (solar) he also gets regeneration 15. I'm just trying to
> figure out how this works:

The question also arises when you cast one of the newer
fast-healing spells on a naturally regenerating creature.

> 1) the character is whacked for 20 points of damage (after DR).
> Because of regeneration, all damage is essentially subdual (yes?)

Yes (assuming it doesn't bypass regeneration).

> 2) On his round the character regenerates 15 points (now 5 off total)
> and fast heals 2 more. Does the fast heal ever kick in or does it
> overlap with regeneration? does the fast heal work seperately (is is a
> completely seperate su ability) ?

I can't figure out what the proper rule is, but I'll say they
overlap. They're both the ability to heal at a fixed rate on your turn,
and those sort of effects don't normally stack.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
 
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tussock wrote:
> eyebyte wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I used the wrong terminology in this case, but here is the gist
>> of it.
>>
>> A Warshaper gains "fast healing" 2. If he's shapechanged into a
>> creature (solar) he also gets regeneration 15. I'm just trying to
>> figure out how this works:
>
>
> The question also arises when you cast one of the newer fast-healing
> spells on a naturally regenerating creature.
>
>> 1) the character is whacked for 20 points of damage (after DR).
>> Because of regeneration, all damage is essentially subdual (yes?)
>
>
> Yes (assuming it doesn't bypass regeneration).
>
>> 2) On his round the character regenerates 15 points (now 5 off total)
>> and fast heals 2 more. Does the fast heal ever kick in or does it
>> overlap with regeneration? does the fast heal work seperately (is is a
>> completely seperate su ability) ?
>
>
> I can't figure out what the proper rule is, but I'll say they
> overlap. They're both the ability to heal at a fixed rate on your turn,
> and those sort of effects don't normally stack.

Well, regeneration doesn't heal regular damage, so it's important to say
the abilities "stack" in that the fast healing always cures that lethal
damage, even if the regeneration is better at healing the nonlethal
stuff. But it should definitely be an overlapping effect in regards to
nonlethal damage.

-Tialan
 
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Tialan <shalahhr@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [Regeneration 15 + Fast Healing 2]
>
>Well, regeneration doesn't heal regular damage, so it's important to say
>the abilities "stack" in that the fast healing always cures that lethal
>damage, even if the regeneration is better at healing the nonlethal
>stuff. But it should definitely be an overlapping effect in regards to
>nonlethal damage.

It's worse than that, right? Normally, when you heal lethal damage,
you also remove an equal amount of nonlethal damage... it's not
entirely clear whether or not that happens with Fast Healing normally,
and even less clear when Regeneration is in force.

I'm tempted to say that Fast Healing only heals one or the other
(lethal vs nonlethal), and that it removes nonlethal first, but
that it "stacks" with Regeneration in this regard. This is totally
a house-ruling, however, even if it's sensible and reasonable. YMMV.

Donald
 
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Donald Tsang wrote:
> Tialan <shalahhr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>[Regeneration 15 + Fast Healing 2]
>>
>>Well, regeneration doesn't heal regular damage, so it's important to say
>>the abilities "stack" in that the fast healing always cures that lethal
>>damage, even if the regeneration is better at healing the nonlethal
>>stuff. But it should definitely be an overlapping effect in regards to
>>nonlethal damage.
>
>
> It's worse than that, right? Normally, when you heal lethal damage,
> you also remove an equal amount of nonlethal damage... it's not
> entirely clear whether or not that happens with Fast Healing normally,
> and even less clear when Regeneration is in force.
>
> I'm tempted to say that Fast Healing only heals one or the other
> (lethal vs nonlethal), and that it removes nonlethal first, but
> that it "stacks" with Regeneration in this regard. This is totally
> a house-ruling, however, even if it's sensible and reasonable. YMMV.

I checked the SRD this morning.

It says simply:

"A creature that has taken both nonlethal and lethal damage heals the
nonlethal damage first,"

Implying the official rule works exactly as your "house-rule."

-Tialan