[SOLVED] Fastest Single Thread performance?

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ben7

Apr 23, 2020
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I am trying to get the most single thread performance possible with a budget under 1000$ for the mobo, cpu, and cpu cooling. This is for fast architecture CAD modelling workflow (a lot of single thread performance required)

Side note: Are all of these cpus actually guaranteed to hit the 5.0 out of the box on intels turbo? Should I just not worry about OC at all and it will automatically get up to 5 ghz when i need it? Or do i still have to win the silicon lottery and get a beefy cooler?https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...product-briefs/9th-gen-core-desktop-brief.pdf

Paths I can take:

One: no overclock

  1. cheaper mobo, b356 or b360 chipset (~80$)
  2. cpu choices going off the single threaded numbers from these sites https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html https://valid.x86.fr/bench/1 https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/
    1. i9-9900kf (480$)
    2. i9-9900k (520$)
    3. i3-9350kf (180$)
    4. i7-8086k (425$ ebay)
    5. i7-9700kf (360$)
    6. there are a few more options but this is the bulk
  3. cheaper cooling system
    1. noctua air cooler (~70$)
    2. cheaper cooler? cooler master evo? (~40$)
Two: light overclock

  1. CPU
    1. Will the best CPU to overclock change from the best CPU without overclock based on single thread performance? or will it change enough to really worry about?
    2. Which of the above chips would work best?
    3. Can I overclock the i3-9350kf to 5 ghz with a cheaper mobo and nice air-cooler?
  2. MOBO
    1. Cheaper z370 mobo?
    2. or do I need a pretty good z370?
    3. or do I need a nice z390 for light OC?
  3. Cooling
    1. a nice air-cooler (~80$)
  4. What kind of performance boost percents could i expect? what kind of ghz boost can I reasonably expect?
Three: major overclock

  1. CPU
    1. Will I have to win the silicon lottery? Should I buy a chip that is pre-binned?
  2. What mobo fits in my budget and allows for serious OC?
    1. do i have to buy the top of the line z390?
    2. can i settle with a mid tier z370?
  3. Can I throw the best cooler available on the i3-9350kf, OC it to 5ghz, and call it a day?
  4. If I need much better cooling what are your thoughts on these things?
    1. Do direct die cooling?
      1. planning to use this to protect the chip https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/9th-gen-direct-to-die-frame-kit-complete
      2. use this water-block for a custom loop? https://nudecncshop.com/
      3. just direct die mount a different water-block? what is the best one for price performance?
    2. What about a custom vapor chamber solution? (10 degree improvement on top of the original improvement of delidding, clu, and ihs replacement which seems to be about 9-15 degrees for a total of ~20-25 degrees)
      1. https://www.quick-cool-shop.de/en/heatdiffuser/heatdiffuser-quadratic/heat-diffuser-quadratic.html
      2. https://imgur.com/a/gyMIBLI
        View: https://imgur.com/a/gyMIBLI
      3. could buy one off aliexpress
      4. could order a custom one off another site, any recommendations?
      5. Maybe direct mounting a heat-pipe could be a good idea too? Know anywhere that anybody has tried to direct mount a heat pipe? (i couldn't find any)
      6. Should i put an air-cooler or a water-block on-top of the vapor chamber?
    3. Or should i just replace the IHS use CLU and lap the IHS?
      1. https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-for-lga-1150-1151
    4. Maybe build a custom water cooled setup with stock IHS?
      1. Use a large aquarium cooler for the chiller? (it might work well and im not opposed to size and sound)
    5. Is there an air cooler that I could use with the original IHS that would work just fine for a serious OC?
    6. I know they make air coolers with a vapor chamber on the bottom, if this could be direct die mounted that would make a huge difference right? Do you know anybody that has done this?
      1. aybe direct mounting a normal heatpipe air cooler?
    7. what about phase shift coolers?
      1. Is there anything cheaper than this? http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/14-phase-change
      2. Do you advise building one myself? https://forums.evga.com/DIY-directdie-phasechange-cooler-system-35C-at-400W-m2952116.aspx / https://www.overclockers.com/build-your-own-phase-change-pc-cooling-system/
      3. anybody know how i could get a calyos system?
  5. What actual performance boost can I reasonably expect from a major OC and max cooling?
Four: wait until the end of summer and reevaluate based on the 10th gen processor? They are quoting turbo speeds up to 5.3 ghz.... https://www.intel.com/content/dam/w...briefs/10th-gen-core-mobile-product-brief.pdf

So what should I do? I understand that it would probably take to long for one person to do an in depth analysis for me but if you could answer a few of my questions and give me a general direction or principle that would be great.

Thanks!
 
Solution
geofelt
Fastest single thread performance is likely to come from a i5-8600K that is delidded.
Here are some historical binning statistics from silicon lottery.
They bin chips and sell the better ones for a price premium..
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics
When the 8700K was first released, I wanted to buy one but it was unavailable.
Instead, I bought a 8600K delidded which was certified to run at 5.2.
I run mine comfortably at 5.0 with a noctua NH-D15s cooler.
SL will delid a processor professionally for you for $40. That includes binning which will tell you how high you can oc.
The good thing with overclocking is that you will run at the OC rate on all cores.
You would need a Z390 based motherboard.

If you are uncomfortable...
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EPIC123

EPIC123

Dec 16, 2019
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Just buy a current Intel CPU. The summer CPUs have hyperthreading, they don't really have a noticeable single core performance increase and they're going to be more expensive.
 
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Karadjgne

Karadjgne

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https://www.pugetsystems.com/recomm...Autodesk-AutoCAD-134/Hardware-Recommendations

You won't get a 9900k system capable of getting the best performance for CAD with a $1k budget. You might be able to get a 9400f system for that price. It's not just the cpu, you'll need a halfway decent everything, which isn't cheap. Half the budget alone or more will be just gpu.

Figure on closer to $3k if wanting a 9900ks build with full custom loop.
 
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mdd1963

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5.0 GHz vs. 4.9 GHz (9900K vs. 9700K) are not readily distinguishable from each other by performance to many folks, but, certainly the former is still the 'go to' for single threaded tasks..;if not offput by the almost $150 more for that last 100 MHz and hyperthreading, it's still top dog in many tasks.
 
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ben7

Apr 23, 2020
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Karadjgne said:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/recomm...Autodesk-AutoCAD-134/Hardware-Recommendations

You won't get a 9900k system capable of getting the best performance for CAD with a $1k budget. You might be able to get a 9400f system for that price. It's not just the cpu, you'll need a halfway decent everything, which isn't cheap. Half the budget alone or more will be just gpu.

Figure on closer to $3k if wanting a 9900ks build with full custom loop.
Click to expand...

Yes i do know all about puget systems...

I already have figured out my PSU, GPU, RAM, and SSD all i need to know is the MOBO, CPU, and CPU cooler which i am trying to keep under 1k
 
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ben7

Apr 23, 2020
22
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Gam3r01 said:
If you are doing CAD modeling in any sort of professional environment I would highly recommend against an OC route.
You priority should be stability over a few seconds faster workflow.
Click to expand...

But I also like to have fun... Im still a student and i think trying OC would be interesting. Maybe its still a bad idea though Haha
 
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ben7

Apr 23, 2020
22
1
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mdd1963 said:
5.0 GHz vs. 4.9 GHz (9900K vs. 9700K) are not readily distinguishable from each other by performance to many folks, but, certainly the former is still the 'go to' for single threaded tasks..;if not offput by the almost $150 more for that last 100 MHz and hyperthreading, it's still top dog in many tasks.
Click to expand...

Hyperthreading still seems like it would be a good idea if i have a lot of background processes running (youtube, chrome, photoshop, a render queue)
 
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B

ben7

Apr 23, 2020
22
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DeauteratedDog said:
This is just a data point for you, but I just (today) started up a board with this Mobo/CPU/Memory and about 1/2 the cooler (Noctua NH-L12S).
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8TXvCL
I know that this Mobo/CPU/Memory combo runs well together:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/27207536

Under $1k for those components, but it will be way over after you add a PSU, storage, etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Will i be able to OC a little with that cooler?
Does that MOBO have good vrm?
Yeah, i already have all the other components picked out, going with 32gb of ram.
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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Fastest single thread performance is likely to come from a i5-8600K that is delidded.
Here are some historical binning statistics from silicon lottery.
They bin chips and sell the better ones for a price premium..
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics
When the 8700K was first released, I wanted to buy one but it was unavailable.
Instead, I bought a 8600K delidded which was certified to run at 5.2.
I run mine comfortably at 5.0 with a noctua NH-D15s cooler.
SL will delid a processor professionally for you for $40. That includes binning which will tell you how high you can oc.
The good thing with overclocking is that you will run at the OC rate on all cores.
You would need a Z390 based motherboard.

If you are uncomfortable with overclocking, look for a i7-9700K which I think is your best bet.
9th gen uses soldered heat sinks and do not benefit much from delidding.
Most will do 5.0
You can use the intel performance maximizer app to OC .
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-auto-overclock-performance-maximizer,6179.html

It might be worth your time to give SL a call; they may have some high performing chips available.

If you are not in a hurry, intel 10th gen desktop announcements are imminent.
Some have turbo supposedly in the 5.3 range.
 
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Solution
D

DeauteratedDog

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Dec 11, 2013
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ben7 said:
Thanks!

Will i be able to OC a little with that cooler?
Does that MOBO have good vrm?
Yeah, i already have all the other components picked out, going with 32gb of ram.
Click to expand...
The L12S seems to run pretty cool during benchmarks (but I haven't done a long stress test) so the larger D15 should easily support some OC.

I researched the VRMs before I bought it - it has some of the best power regulation on a uATX board, but you can do better with a larger board (I was shooting for a 'shoebox' form factor build.)

I'm super happy with the Crucial/Micron Ballistix RAM (Micron E-die) so far, and even the Ryzen guys are saying nice things about it. 3600/C16 seems to be a good speed for both performance and budget.
 
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ben7

Apr 23, 2020
22
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logainofhades said:
Clock for clock AMD right now has the best IPC. Also you would have an upgrade path, that Intel would not provide. What software are you using?
Click to expand...
Rhinocerous, autocad, and adobe suite mostly

so an amd mobo will be compatible with the next few chip generations?

IPC is important but what is the real world performance gain?
 
Last edited:
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B

ben7

Apr 23, 2020
22
1
25
Upvote 0 Downvote
B

ben7

Apr 23, 2020
22
1
25
geofelt said:
Fastest single thread performance is likely to come from a i5-8600K that is delidded.
Here are some historical binning statistics from silicon lottery.
They bin chips and sell the better ones for a price premium..
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics
When the 8700K was first released, I wanted to buy one but it was unavailable.
Instead, I bought a 8600K delidded which was certified to run at 5.2.
I run mine comfortably at 5.0 with a noctua NH-D15s cooler.
SL will delid a processor professionally for you for $40. That includes binning which will tell you how high you can oc.
The good thing with overclocking is that you will run at the OC rate on all cores.
You would need a Z390 based motherboard.

If you are uncomfortable with overclocking, look for a i7-9700K which I think is your best bet.
9th gen uses soldered heat sinks and do not benefit much from delidding.
Most will do 5.0
You can use the intel performance maximizer app to OC .
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-auto-overclock-performance-maximizer,6179.html

It might be worth your time to give SL a call; they may have some high performing chips available.

If you are not in a hurry, intel 10th gen desktop announcements are imminent.
Some have turbo supposedly in the 5.3 range.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information.

do you mean best performance price wise or best performance?
 
Last edited:
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Gam3r01

Gam3r01

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ben7 said:
But I also like to have fun... Im still a student and i think trying OC would be interesting. Maybe its still a bad idea though Haha
Click to expand...
If youre still a student, dont mind if a project might corrupt on crash, and arent getting paid to meet a deadline, then OCing is viable if its in your interest.
If you were getting paid on a specific timeline and lost a project due to a crash that you technically caused thats a different story.
 
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logainofhades

logainofhades

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ben7 said:
Rhinocerous, autocad, and adobe suite mostly

so an amd mobo will be compatible with the next few chip generations?

IPC is important but what is the real world performance gain?
Click to expand...

4th gen Ryzen is supposed to be compatible with current motherboards. I would grab an R5 3700x, with a B450 Tomahawk max, personally. Not sure if this relates to what you will be working with, but some benchmarks, for different workloads. https://techgage.com/article/amd-ryzen-7-3700x-ryzen-9-3900x-workstation-performance/4/
 
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grimfox

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That link gave "permission denied."

Just a quick 2 cents on overclocking. Way back when, I bought a 6600k with the intent of giving it a mild overclock I think they had already announced the 7 series so it was cheaper and the 7 series. Performance numbers weren't much of a reason to opt for that chip. I started my overclock got it up to 4.5Ghz. And then I couldn't get the darn thing to boot. I could get into the BIOS and futz around. I removed my OC, did all sorts of things to try and get it to boot again. Nothing worked. Finally, I decided to switch to 1 CPU core. Turning my quadcore into a single core. It worked fine. Upped it to 2 cores, still fine. 3 cores, Good. Back to 4 cores, no boot. I blew the core on the CPU. Thankfully I had only had the thing for a week, so I was able to RMA it and got a replacement. Cost me about a week of time, and some money for shipping. My computer was just for fun. The computer your building is for productivity. Can you afford to lose this computer for a week while you replace the CPU?

I would be careful with overclocking. You can lose a lot of time. You might also invalidate your Autocad license. Autodesk, I believe uses a hardware check to verify you haven't moved it to a new system. And they will come after you if they think you are messing around with their software. They threatened my old company with $10k fines for every instance of invalid software licensing. Their licensing is different now, but it's another hassle you might run into should you have a hardware failure.

That kinda turned into a nickle...Good luck and have fun with your new system. My new company runs on i5-2400s so the system your building now might be a treat compared to what you'll be running in a work environment. I sometimes remote into my home PC to get stuff done. The 2400s are new! Prior to that we had celerons!
 
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ben7

Apr 23, 2020
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grimfox said:
That link gave "permission denied."

Just a quick 2 cents on overclocking. Way back when, I bought a 6600k with the intent of giving it a mild overclock I think they had already announced the 7 series so it was cheaper and the 7 series. Performance numbers weren't much of a reason to opt for that chip. I started my overclock got it up to 4.5Ghz. And then I couldn't get the darn thing to boot. I could get into the BIOS and futz around. I removed my OC, did all sorts of things to try and get it to boot again. Nothing worked. Finally, I decided to switch to 1 CPU core. Turning my quadcore into a single core. It worked fine. Upped it to 2 cores, still fine. 3 cores, Good. Back to 4 cores, no boot. I blew the core on the CPU. Thankfully I had only had the thing for a week, so I was able to RMA it and got a replacement. Cost me about a week of time, and some money for shipping. My computer was just for fun. The computer your building is for productivity. Can you afford to lose this computer for a week while you replace the CPU?

I would be careful with overclocking. You can lose a lot of time. You might also invalidate your Autocad license. Autodesk, I believe uses a hardware check to verify you haven't moved it to a new system. And they will come after you if they think you are messing around with their software. They threatened my old company with $10k fines for every instance of invalid software licensing. Their licensing is different now, but it's another hassle you might run into should you have a hardware failure.

That kinda turned into a nickle...Good luck and have fun with your new system. My new company runs on i5-2400s so the system your building now might be a treat compared to what you'll be running in a work environment. I sometimes remote into my home PC to get stuff done. The 2400s are new! Prior to that we had celerons!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice.
as for your work computer, I have no words

the link is no longer private https://pcpartpicker.com/user/ben7/saved/#view=2dwF8d
 
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