Fiery Gambit

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

I drafted Fiery Gambit during last Friday night's FNM.

Fiery Gambit
{2}{R}
Sorcery
Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop flipping. If you
lose a flip, Fiery Gambit has no effect. If you win one or more flips,
Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to target creature. If you win two or more
flips, Fiery Gambit deals 6 damage to each opponent. If you win three
or more flips, draw nine cards and untap all lands you control.

My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
draw nine cards and untap all lands. He also believes that I may
repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.

Well after typing all the above out I found this in a FAQ. "If you
win three flips, Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to the target
creature and 6 damage to each opponent, and you draw nine cards and
untap all lands you control."

Now may I continue to flip three or more times? If so why would I
want to?

Thanks,
-Phil
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:

> I drafted Fiery Gambit during last Friday night's FNM.
>
> Fiery Gambit
> {2}{R}
> Sorcery
> Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop flipping. If you
> lose a flip, Fiery Gambit has no effect. If you win one or more flips,
> Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to target creature. If you win two or more
> flips, Fiery Gambit deals 6 damage to each opponent. If you win three
> or more flips, draw nine cards and untap all lands you control.
>
> My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
> will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
> the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
> creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
> another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
> draw nine cards and untap all lands. He also believes that I may
> repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.

Does your friend believe that it says "If you win one or more flips,
Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage per flip to target creature."?

> Well after typing all the above out I found this in a FAQ. "If you
> win three flips, Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to the target
> creature and 6 damage to each opponent, and you draw nine cards and
> untap all lands you control."
>
> Now may I continue to flip three or more times?

Yes. From the Mirrodin FAQ:

* You can flip any number of coins (you can even flip more than three),
but Fiery Gambit has no effect if you lose any of the flips. You can't
continue flipping if you lose a flip.

(BTW, what was the FAQ that you found?)

> If so why would I
> want to?

Chance Encounter
{2}{R}{R}
Enchantment
Whenever you win a coin flip, put a luck counter on Chance Encounter.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Chance Encounter has ten or more
luck counters on it, you win the game.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:05:20 -0500, panoptes@iquest.net (Daniel W.
Johnson) wrote:

>Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> I drafted Fiery Gambit during last Friday night's FNM.
>>
>> Fiery Gambit
>> {2}{R}
>> Sorcery
>> Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop flipping. If you
>> lose a flip, Fiery Gambit has no effect. If you win one or more flips,
>> Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to target creature. If you win two or more
>> flips, Fiery Gambit deals 6 damage to each opponent. If you win three
>> or more flips, draw nine cards and untap all lands you control.
>>
>> My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
>> will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
>> the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
>> creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
>> another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
>> draw nine cards and untap all lands. He also believes that I may
>> repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.
>
>Does your friend believe that it says "If you win one or more flips,
>Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage per flip to target creature."?

He believes that one may select additional creatures.

>> Well after typing all the above out I found this in a FAQ. "If you
>> win three flips, Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to the target
>> creature and 6 damage to each opponent, and you draw nine cards and
>> untap all lands you control."
>>
>> Now may I continue to flip three or more times?
>
>Yes. From the Mirrodin FAQ:
>
>* You can flip any number of coins (you can even flip more than three),
>but Fiery Gambit has no effect if you lose any of the flips. You can't
>continue flipping if you lose a flip.
>
>(BTW, what was the FAQ that you found?)

A Google Groups search pulled the Mirrodin FAQ. :)
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=fiery+gambit&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bm1r22%24hhnsb%242%40ID-57982.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=5

>> If so why would I
>> want to?
>
>Chance Encounter
>{2}{R}{R}
>Enchantment
>Whenever you win a coin flip, put a luck counter on Chance Encounter.
>At the beginning of your upkeep, if Chance Encounter has ten or more
>luck counters on it, you win the game.

Ah I see, so basically I may flip ten times, but should I lose the
tenth flip, then I am unable to use any of the cards abilities?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> writes:

> I drafted Fiery Gambit during last Friday night's FNM.
>
> Fiery Gambit
> {2}{R}
> Sorcery
> Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop flipping. If you
> lose a flip, Fiery Gambit has no effect. If you win one or more flips,
> Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to target creature. If you win two or more
> flips, Fiery Gambit deals 6 damage to each opponent. If you win three
> or more flips, draw nine cards and untap all lands you control.
>
> My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
> will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
> the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
> creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
> another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
> draw nine cards and untap all lands. He also believes that I may
> repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.

This is false. You follow the instructions as written on the card. First,
you flip coins without worrying about the rest of the card, until you lose a
flip or stop flipping. You know now how many flips you won. So then you
follow each direction. It's simply binary, either you deal 3 damage or you
don't, for example. It does not state "For each flip won, deal 3 damage to
target creature."

> Well after typing all the above out I found this in a FAQ. "If you
> win three flips, Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to the target
> creature and 6 damage to each opponent, and you draw nine cards and
> untap all lands you control."

Correct.

> Now may I continue to flip three or more times?

Yes.

> If so why would I want to?

There's no real reson to.
--
Lee Sharpe, lee.sharpe@gmail.com
DCI Level 2 Judge
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:

> He believes that one may select additional creatures.

Which of the following does he believe to be the closest to the text of
Fiery Gambit's target specification?

"any number of target creatures"
"X target creatures" (where X is the number of flips won)
"X target creatures" (where X is no more than the number of flips won)
"target creature" (singular)

> Ah I see, so basically I may flip ten times, but should I lose the
> tenth flip, then I am unable to use any of the cards abilities?

A deck with Chance Encounter is probably not going to rely on a single
casting of Fiery Gambit to get all its luck counters. But if it already
had six luck counters (from previous turns) and the Fiery Gambit's first
three coin flips were won, the player might decide to make a fourth flip
in the hopes of putting a tenth luck counter on Chance Encounter.
(Especially if the deck includes Krark's Thumb.)

A fourth flip for Fiery Gambit will only be sensible in conjunction with
a trigger like Chance Encounter or some other effect like Mindslaver.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:45:16 -0500, Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:

>I drafted Fiery Gambit during last Friday night's FNM.
>
>Fiery Gambit
>{2}{R}
>Sorcery
>Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop flipping. If you
>lose a flip, Fiery Gambit has no effect. If you win one or more flips,
>Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to target creature. If you win two or more
>flips, Fiery Gambit deals 6 damage to each opponent. If you win three
>or more flips, draw nine cards and untap all lands you control.
>
>My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
>will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
>the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
>creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
>another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
>draw nine cards and untap all lands. He also believes that I may
>repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.

First you "Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop
flipping" - nothing more nothing less, no effects besides the flipping
are done at this point.
Once you, by choice or loss, are done flipping you have two numbers;
"wins" and "loses", and you then use those numbers to determine what
to do.

If "loses" is 1 (it can only be 1 or 0), then nothing happens and you
stop, otherwise you continue.
Then you test if "wins" is 1 or more, if it is FG deals 3 damage to
target creature.
Next test is if "wins" is 2 or more, if it is FG deals 6 damage to
each opponent.
Lastly you check if "wins" is 3 or more, if it is you draw nine cards
and untap all lands you control.

As you can see each check is only performed once, and thus each effect
can also only happen once.

>Well after typing all the above out I found this in a FAQ. "If you
>win three flips, Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to the target
>creature and 6 damage to each opponent, and you draw nine cards and
>untap all lands you control."

Exactly, I just wanted to explain why as well.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>I drafted Fiery Gambit during last Friday night's FNM.
>
>Fiery Gambit 2R Sorcery
>Flip a coin until you lose a flip or choose to stop flipping. If you
>lose a flip, Fiery Gambit has no effect. If you win one or more flips,
>Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to target creature. If you win two or more
>flips, Fiery Gambit deals 6 damage to each opponent. If you win three
>or more flips, draw nine cards and untap all lands you control.

The effects are cumulative if you keep winning; the spell has one target.

>My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
>will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
>the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
>creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
>another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
>draw nine cards and untap all lands.

Nope. "one _or more_", "two _or more", and "three _or more_" prevent any
of the portions from being done more than once. If you won the first flip,
target creature gets dealt 3 damage; if you also won the second flip,
all opponents get dealt 6 damage each ... and no creature gets dealt any
damage (unless there's pre-existing redirection shields); if you also won
the third flip, no more damage is dealt, you draw nine cards, and you untap
all lands you control.

You can keep flipping after three flips, but that only increases the chances
you'll lose a flip and the entire spell will have no effect at all. (And
notice that you make ALL the flips, however many that is, before ANY of
the effect takes place at all ... because you don't know, until you're done
flipping one way or the other, whether you lost any of the flips, and you have
to know before doing any of the effect.)

> He also believes that I may
>repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.

Nope.

>Well after typing all the above out I found this in a FAQ. "If you
>win three flips, Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage to the target
>creature and 6 damage to each opponent, and you draw nine cards and
>untap all lands you control."
>
>Now may I continue to flip three or more times? If so why would I want to?

You may continue to flip after three flips, if you want to. None of the
effect has occurred at all yet, if you do, because _you're not done flipping
yet_, so you don't KNOW whether you lost any flips yet. Only once you're
done flipping - either by stopping, or by losing a flip - do you know if
there will be any effect; all of the rest of the effect only happens after
you're done flipping entirely.

Usually you have no particular reason to keep flipping - but notice that
Chance Encounter _can_ give you motivation to keep flipping...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>panoptes@iquest.net (Daniel W. Johnson) wrote:
>>> My friend believes that if I win 3 flips that on the first flip won, I
>>> will deal 3 damage to creature that I have chosen as my target. On
>>> the second flip won, I will deal another 3 damage to target
>>> creature and 6 damage to each opponent. On the third flip I will deal
>>> another 3 damage to target creature, deal 6 damage to all opponents,
>>> draw nine cards and untap all lands. He also believes that I may
>>> repeat this loop until I lose a coin toss.
>>
>>Does your friend believe that it says "If you win one or more flips,
>>Fiery Gambit deals 3 damage per flip to target creature."?
>
>He believes that one may select additional creatures.

He is incorrect; the spell has one, and only one, target, which is (as with
ALL targets) chosen on announcement. You're long past the time when targets
are chosen when you go to start resolving the spell; nothing on the spell
says anything about "you may repeat this sequence of events, including
re-choosing a target, as many times as you like". All that you can keep doing
as long as you like is _flipping a coin_ during resolution, which is
unconnected, entirely, to the choice of target. (And even then if you lose
a flip you have to stop there.)

>Ah I see, so basically I may flip ten times, but should I lose the
>tenth flip, then I am unable to use any of the cards abilities?

If you lose the tenth flip, then Fiery Gambit will have no further effect,
will deal no damage, cause no cards to be drawn, and cause no lands to untap,
and will go to your graveyard from the stack because it's done resolving...
but your Chance Encounter will have triggered nine times, and there will
be nine of its triggered abilities waiting to go onto the stack after the
FG lands in the graveyard.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:50:16 -0500, panoptes@iquest.net (Daniel W.
Johnson) wrote:

>Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> He believes that one may select additional creatures.
>
>Which of the following does he believe to be the closest to the text of
>Fiery Gambit's target specification?
>
>"any number of target creatures"
>"X target creatures" (where X is the number of flips won)
>"X target creatures" (where X is no more than the number of flips won)
>"target creature" (singular)

Any number of target creatues. 😛

>> Ah I see, so basically I may flip ten times, but should I lose the
>> tenth flip, then I am unable to use any of the cards abilities?
>
>A deck with Chance Encounter is probably not going to rely on a single
>casting of Fiery Gambit to get all its luck counters. But if it already
>had six luck counters (from previous turns) and the Fiery Gambit's first
>three coin flips were won, the player might decide to make a fourth flip
>in the hopes of putting a tenth luck counter on Chance Encounter.
>(Especially if the deck includes Krark's Thumb.)
>
>A fourth flip for Fiery Gambit will only be sensible in conjunction with
>a trigger like Chance Encounter or some other effect like Mindslaver.

Cool, thanks for the help. :)
 
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