Finally giving my PC some love, upgrading ram need some help!

[blackburn72419]

Hello all,

its been a while since I gave the PC I built years ago any love and I think the first step I want to take is upgrading the ram.

currently the motherboard and ram I have are as follows: asrockz77 and 8gb (2x4) gskill ddr3

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231519

I was originally planning on just adding another 8gb of ram but it seems as though most people suggest just getting 1 pack of the entire amount you want to avoid any complications.

so I have a few questions for the community:
-with the motherboard listed above do I need to stick to DDR3? or can I move to DDR4?
-what is a decent amount of ram for an average gaming user? 16gb?
-and finally... any recommendations on good ram that wont break the bank?

 

[profoundnoah]

That motherboard does not support DDR4. Only works with DDR3 modules up to 2800 when overclocked, if I remember correctly.

As games are becoming more and more resource consuming, the more RAM you have, the better. 16GB is very healthy.

You can find DDR3 for pretty cheap nowadays. If I remember correctly, someone was selling 32GB of it for $70 in the classifieds on this very website: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3749159/wts-4k90k-32gb-8x4-mushkin-ddr3-wraith-prism-wil-pay-shipping-paypal.html You could probably see if he's willing to sell only 16GB, but I'd recommend leaving negotiations for PM's.

Do note: At this point, investing in your aged system might not have the best returns. What system specs are you rocking?

 

[luckymatt42]

As games are becoming more and more resource consuming, the more RAM you have, the better. 16GB is very healthy.

I did just want to clarify here, as many people are misinformed on this point. Games (and this is true for other programs as well) will use a set amount of memory, and adding more does nothing. For example, you're running Skyrim, with your current 8gb memory, and your memory usage is 3.8gb. After you install 16gb, it's still going to use 3.8gb.

Now it certainly DOES help if you want to run Skyrim, six web browsers and a spreadsheet...all at the same time, but you won't see any performance improvement on a single application.

 

[profoundnoah]

That is true. But what you said, like I originally did, is not the complete story. The OP could also go for FASTER RAM, which is what I recommended (though Im not 100% sure about native 2133 support). As you said, if the OP already has background tasks open, thus eating up his RAM to the point where the game isn't able to fully utilize its max RAM, there definitely will be performance gains to be had with 16GB vs 8. Check these threads out for more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/5g5ikh/discussion_is_faster_ram_worth_it_for_gaming/ https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1366657-ddr3-1600-vs-2133-there-difference-game.html

 

[blackburn72419]

Do note: At this point, investing in your aged system might not have the best returns. What system specs are you rocking?

I'll do my best to give you the quick run down:
Core I5 2500k, mobo and ram as listed above (asrock z77 and 8gb ddr3), RX480, 1 TB Hard drive, 256 gb SSD, 750w rosewill PSU

I think next on the list for upgrading would be the CPU or mobo?

Now it certainly DOES help if you want to run Skyrim, six web browsers and a spreadsheet...all at the same time, but you won't see any performance improvement on a single application.

this does pretty accurately describe my situation... I often have quite a few tabs of chrome open, spotify, a game, potentially other applications as well.

 

[boju]

Few things to consider before upgrading any parts that may help prolong the life of your system in regards to your needs and that's if you're not looking into a complete system overhaul in near future and how accessible second hand parts are and if price is right.

Resolution/Hz, Vram and games will affect your CPU and Memory choices.

If you're currently playing in 1080p 60Hz, your current i5 and 8GB ram is good enough. I don't think you're using much of the 480's vram to cause system memory bottlenecks.

If you're planning to play modern AAA games at higher frame rates (ie, 144Hz) in resolutions of 1080p or 1440p with a better GPU then your CPU will be a bottleneck and would need an i7 for the extra threads in games that are multi threaded which most are nowadays. 1080p/1440p @ 60Hz an i5 CPU with 4c 4t is fine for the job.

Games that can use lots of Vram in 1080p/1440p+ resolutions, 8GB system ram can show limits. The OS uses 1.5~2GB ram for itself, that leaves 6-6.5GB worth of ram for Vram and other game related data to be swapped to and from. The OS probably wont allow for all the free memory to be allocated so it'll start using the pagefile as backup just in case, and on an mechanical hdd you don't want this as it causes stutters.

Eg,
GTX 1060 or better / RX 580 or better playing recent games in 1080p/1440p @ 60Hz with lots of details will want 16GB ram for more efficient buffer to avoid too much hdd usage. SSDs do help in this regard but memory is faster.

Vega or GTX 1070+ 1080p/1440p @ 144Hz, an i7 upgrade like a 2600k and also 16GB system ram.

Doom 2016, Farcry5, Ghost Recon, Division, BF1 to name a few with high end cards can bottleneck i5 4c 4t CPUs above 60Hz/60fps to high 90s usage and can result in stutters and lower fps. Same goes for newer 4c 4t gen i5's i've seen behave the same where i7's Hyperthreads were useful. Overclocking i5's can help reduce usage to like 5% minimising the chance of hitting 100% where stutters are very noticeable.

My question to you blackburn, what games are you looking towards playing, what resolution/hz and your budget? Might be worth holding on and buy a whole new system when able like Ryzen or an i5 8400 DDR4. Any upgrade you do will be second hand, DDR3 is overpriced and if you overhaul to a new system to either AMD or Intel, DDR4 will be required.

 

[blackburn72419]

My question to you blackburn, what games are you looking towards playing, what resolution/hz and your budget? Might be worth holding on and buy a whole new system when able like Ryzen or an i5 8400 DDR4. Any upgrade you do will be second hand, DDR3 is overpriced and if you overhaul to a new system to either AMD or Intel, DDR4 will be required.

I do not play too many heavy games. For an example I just played a game of league of legends with 6 tabs of chrome open on the second monitor with task manager open to monitor usage and it was right around 90% memory usage. this is with almost all settings and everything as low as they can go getting 60fps. I may start playing some heavier games like WOW again but uncertain about that.

I am playing 1080 60hz

I am heavily considering a more complete system overhaul with a new mobo, cpu and ram all together. I would like to be able to play these relatively light games on higher settings.

no set budget really, though would like to be fiscally efficient.

 

[profoundnoah]

Then I would refer you to the upgrade list I posted. Keep your 770 until the new 11 series comes out and grab something like the 1160. It will likely be in between the 1060 6GB and the 1070 in performance, if not higher.

 

[blackburn72419]

Then I would refer you to the upgrade list I posted. Keep your 770 until the new 11 series comes out and grab something like the 1160. It will likely be in between the 1060 6GB and the 1070 in performance, if not higher.

maybe I am just missing it but I don't see an upgrade list? i assume youre referring to upgrading the GPU but I have a 480 not 770

 

[profoundnoah]

My apologies, I've been through so many threads lately and have had similar lists in all of them.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2400G 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($101.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($154.99 @ Newegg Business)
Total: $406.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-07-24 23:25 EDT-0400

 

[boju]

Good list but i'd go a 2600x unless you want integrated for the second monitor. 2600x has more cores and faster turbo for not that much more.

Only other niggle but not really a concern is the 2400g's IGP halves the PCIe lanes. So any discrete card you put in it will run at 8x even if the slot is 16. Not likely you'll ever run into bandwidth issues running a card at PCIe 8x but ya never know what the future holds i guess.

 

[blackburn72419]

Good list but i'd go a 2600x unless you want integrated for the second monitor. 2600x has more cores and faster turbo for not that much more.

Only other niggle but not really a concern is the 2400g's IGP halves the PCIe lanes. So any discrete card you put in it will run at 8x even if the slot is 16. Not likely you'll ever run into bandwidth issues running a card at PCIe 8x but ya never know what the future holds i guess.

I will defer to both of you as you both have far more knowledge than me on the subject. I am pretty happy to have gotten 5-6 years out of this current iteration of the PC. If that list of parts alongside my RX480 would last me last long I would be more than happy with that.

I do have a second monitor if that makes a difference as far as the CPU goes

 

[boju]

I do not play too many heavy games. For an example I just played a game of league of legends with 6 tabs of chrome open on the second monitor with task manager open to monitor usage and it was right around 90% memory usage. this is with almost all settings and everything as low as they can go getting 60fps. I may start playing some heavier games like WOW again but uncertain about that.

I am playing 1080 60hz

I am heavily considering a more complete system overhaul with a new mobo, cpu and ram all together. I would like to be able to play these relatively light games on higher settings.

no set budget really, though would like to be fiscally efficient.

RX480 is still plenty good for your needs, id assume the 2500k is holding you back more than ram with whats going on in the background. Check your CPU usage. Maybe try muck around with affinity and priorities the least busiest cores for Lol. Think Lol only uses 1 or 2 cores so try avoid Chrome working on the same cores if possible. Not sure if Chrome uses all cores but if it does could try restrict it to only using cores you want it to and the other two for Lol. Might work and improve things

 

[boju]

I will defer to both of you as you both have far more knowledge than me on the subject. I am pretty happy to have gotten 5-6 years out of this current iteration of the PC. If that list of parts alongside my RX480 would last me last long I would be more than happy with that.

I do have a second monitor if that makes a difference as far as the CPU goes

Ryzen 2400g or 2600x will be quite a step up and the amount of cores will go a long way into 5 or so years if not more. Can run dual monitors off your Rx480 but if you prefer the 2400g's IGP for that then thats fine too. The motherboard would probably deactivate IGP when Rx480 is in but can simply change the setting to run both in the Bios.

Ryzen likes fast ram so the suggested 3200Mhz kit is a good start and it also uses Samsung chips on it so thats a plus. Memory using Hynix chips is a hit and miss with fast memory getting them to work properly.

List of memory with Samsung and Hynix
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/

G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 MHz CL16 F4-3200C16D-16GVGB 4Gb Samsung E-Die

Or if you like a bit faster, shoot for 3200 CL14 Gskills. CL14's all have Samsung's. CL15 and CL16 models can either have Samsung or Hynix. Use the list for model # reference when buying, information is usually vague about what chip is what.