Firmware RAID-1 : How do I know if a drive fails?

[pchaplo]

I did my first RAID-1 using firmware on my new Gigabyte GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD5H LGA 1150 Intel Z97 with i5-4690k. WD black 2x1TB, Just completed the build on Saturday!

In Win7Pro Disk Management, the RAID appears as one drive.

My question is simple: how do I know if one of the two drives in the RAID-1 fails? ...I mean short of seeing mushroom cloud...

 

[SuperSoph_WD]

Hey there, pchaplo!

I'd highly recommended to keep a backup of your RAID setup on an external or on a cloud, because arrays are not really a backup solution. If you delete a file or get a malware/virus, it will effect all the HDDs in the array. Also be careful with the WD Black drives, they are not really designed for RAID/NAS configurations.
Do you have Intel RST installed?
This is a program that runs in the background and monitors the RAID for you, it will let you know if there's a drive failure.
Also if a drive failure occurs in RAID 1, the configuration enters into Rebuild mode. Once the failed HDD is replaced with a new identical drive, it will automatically start cloning the data and rebuild the array.

Let me know if you have any other questions!
Hope I helped. Good luck!
SuperSoph_WD

 

[pchaplo]

Hey there, pchaplo!
...be careful with the WD Black drives, they are not really designed for RAID/NAS configurations.

Hey SuperSoph, I never did RAID before and had WD Black in my desk for backup as they have served well over the years, so thats what I used.. I did not know that some HD's are better than others for RAID1.Can you tell me more about that? Is there design or firmware that makes some drives better for RAID1? What consumer-priced WD drive would you recommend for RAID1 "boot drive" and/or RAID1 "data drive"? (I do not think I can afford enterprise-class drives.)

I am a loyal long-term WD user and currently in new build I have the following:
RAID1 Boot: 2 x WD BLACK SERIES WD1003FZEX 1TB
RAID1 Data: 2 x WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB
Whoa! I just realized they are very much the same series - never looked at the model #'s side by side [choir music up, que the sun rays]

Do you have Intel RST installed?
This is a program that runs in the background and monitors the RAID for you, it will let you know if there's a drive failure.

After reading this, I installed Intel RST and sure enough I can see my two RAIDs. Good info. Didn't know that IRST could monitor health of my firmware-based RAIDS. Good info.

Please tell me more about what makes a good RAID1 hard drive and what WD I might consider for next go-round. Thanks!

 

[King Kevain]

On the best drives for Raid, Western Digital explains it best - see here http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

 

[pchaplo]

On the best drives for Raid, Western Digital explains it best - see here http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

I see. Now I know why when I see WD Red for sale it says NAS. In that past I avoided them lol as I didnt do RAID. I see that WD marketing information touts Red performance in NAS environment. My RAID1's are in a desktop computer that I use mostly for Photoshop work. I still backup -- I just like some ability to recover from one failed HD and keep on working. I still wonder: what exactly makes a WD Red superior to a WD Black for RAID1 in my home? Are the platters or heads designed or arranged differently? Is the firmware different? What happens in the case where a WD Black is used in RAID1? ...what are the concerns: slower speed (not an issue for me), higher failure rate? I am concerned about that, but even Reds fail. If we built two RAID1's on a test bench: one 2 x Black, the other 2 x Red -- what real world differences would we likely observe?
(btw, my page file and Photoshop scratch use a dedicated SSD)

 

[King Kevain]

On the best drives for Raid, Western Digital explains it best - see here http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

I see. Now I know why when I see WD Red for sale it says NAS. In that past I avoided them lol as I didnt do RAID. I see that WD marketing information touts Red performance in NAS environment. My RAID1's are in a desktop computer that I use mostly for Photoshop work. I still backup -- I just like some ability to recover from one failed HD and keep on working. I still wonder: what exactly makes a WD Red superior to a WD Black for RAID1 in my home? Are the platters or heads designed or arranged differently? Is the firmware different? What happens in the case where a WD Black is used in RAID1? ...what are the concerns: slower speed (not an issue for me), higher failure rate? I am concerned about that, but even Reds fail. If we built two RAID1's on a test bench: one 2 x Black, the other 2 x Red -- what real world differences would we likely observe?
(btw, my page file and Photoshop scratch use a dedicated SSD)

To be honest, I think a fair whack of WD's Colour coding is just Marketing so they can sell drives at different price points with very minor tweaks. You need to go into each color and read the info on them, WD take a fair bit of time to explain the differences. For instance there are three types of Red's in various sizes and capabilities - http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/nas/ - same for all the other colours.

 

[pchaplo]

To be honest, I think a fair whack of WD's Colour coding is just Marketing so they can sell drives at different price points with very minor tweaks. You need to go into each color and read the info on them, WD take a fair bit of time to explain the differences. For instance there are three types of Red's in various sizes and capabilities - http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/nas/ - same for all the other colours.

If I were doing enterprise servers, I would be more concerned. Thanks for your kind reply. I believe that in my pedestrian environment, I have quality drives in my first RAID1 in my little Hobbitt-hole, and if one fails I have more in the pantry, and can install it over second breakfast. Cheers!

 

[SuperSoph_WD]

Hi again, pchaplo!

I'd like to elaborate on WD Red's advantages in NAS/RAID environments even in PCs.
They have an exclusive NASware technology built in to improve performance in such environments.
Regular desktop drives have higher level of risk for potential data loss and failure. They also have controls that prevent the RAID controller from assisting in the event of an error, which can make the HDDs drop out of the array or fail.
Most desktop HDDs are designed for single drive applications, put that in a multi-drive systems the vibration levels and noise can reduce the reliability and life span of that HDD, which is why most of them lose their warranty if you put them in RAID arrays.
The NASware tech in WD Red drives addresses many of these challenges, the firmware balances the performance, power and reliability in multi-drive environments. This technology also prevents the HDDs from being dropped out of the arrays and minimizes the data corruption in case of unexpected power loss. I believe you can learn more about that on WD Red's product page on our website:
http://products.wdc.com/support/kb.ashx?id=BEbziZ

As for the color difference of WD drives, they are developed so it's easier for the end customer to choose the most suitable storage for their intended use. That's why the drives are tested in various environments and developed for different purposes.

I hope this answers your questions. If you have more, let me know.
SuperSoph_WD

 

[fzabkar]

If you're looking for genuine technical information, then WD Red's product page is essentially just useless marketingspeak.

Instead here are a few WD documents that explain the buzzwords:

http://wfcache.advantech.com/www/certified-peripherals/documents/96hd1tb-st-wd7ke_Datasheet.pdf
ftp://ftp.fen.pl/certyfikaty/CE_pdf/SuperMicro/dyski%20WD/2679-771339-A05.pdf
http://wdc.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/79389/0/filename/2679-701179-A01.pdf

Other HDD manufacturers such as Hitachi and Seagate provide such technical documents as free public downloads, but WD treats them as super-secret commercially sensitive data. Can anybody tell me why?

 

[pchaplo]

Most desktop HDDs are designed for single drive applications, put that in a multi-drive systems the vibration levels and noise can reduce the reliability and life span of that HDD, which is why most of them lose their warranty if you put them in RAID arrays.
The NASware tech in WD Red drives addresses many of these challenges, the firmware balances the performance, power and reliability in multi-drive environments. This technology also prevents the HDDs from being dropped out of the arrays and minimizes the data corruption in case of unexpected power loss.

Still wondering: in a RAID1 in a home system that is *not* on 24/7 -- what real difference will I experience using WD Black vs. WD. Red? Could you be more specific regarding my drives and my RAID configuration specifically?

 

[pchaplo]

Thanks for the link to the confidential WD document and the other resources. I can see enterprise systems wanting NAS-certified drives. However, my application is much simpler and sees about 10 hrs of duty per day. If a drive fails, I can replace it. Also, in terms of balance and vibration -- perhaps that is a consideration in a NAS appliance with a large number of drives. Are you saying that WD Black drives vibrate too much, or run too hot for a RAID? Right.

 

[King Kevain]

Thanks for the link to the confidential WD document and the other resources. I can see enterprise systems wanting NAS-certified drives. However, my application is much simpler and sees about 10 hrs of duty per day. If a drive fails, I can replace it. Also, in terms of balance and vibration -- perhaps that is a consideration in a NAS appliance with a large number of drives. Are you saying that WD Black drives vibrate too much, or run too hot for a RAID? Right.

The Blacks will likely be fine, but you should realise that if the drive fails you will not be able to get a replacement under warranty from WD if it failed while in a RAID configuration....it's not what they're designed for.

 

[pchaplo]

The Blacks will likely be fine, but you should realise that if the drive fails you will not be able to get a replacement under warranty from WD if it failed while in a RAID configuration....it's not what they're designed for.

That is marketing and product differentiation through warranty support. I simply asking what, for the civilian user, is inherently an organic difference between the nuts and bolts of a 2 x WD Red vs 2 x Black in a RAID-1 in a home computer. Note: I am not running a home NAS as a server for music or movies even. I do writing and work on photographs. In addition, my pagefiles (Win7 and Photoshop) use a dedicated SSD-so that saves alot of reading and writing to the HD's. Other than that, I surf the web.

Also, are WD Black better than say, WD Green for a RAID?

 

[pchaplo]

I am reading reviews of WD Red on Newegg: one user said that they are so dissatisfied with red that they are going back to black. Another said "3/8 of failed drives so far, less then 1 full day of total use." Quite a few DOA's too. I guess you need that warranty.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/SingleProductReview.aspx?reviewid=3600139

 

[fzabkar]

I always view customer reviews with a measure of skepticism. To WD's credit, they offered to examine the drives to determine the reason for failure.

In fact that's what I would do as an end user. If the drive doesn't spin, then that would point to a PCB failure. A common failure mode is a shorted TVS diode, in which case the PSU would be at fault. Many users are unaware of staggered spinup, so their drive arrays all spin up at once, thereby stressing the PSU. It is during this time that the supply rails can overshoot.

DOA failures could also be the result of mishandling during shipment.

 

[King Kevain]

I always view customer reviews with a measure of skepticism. To WD's credit, they offered to examine the drives to determine the reason for failure.

In fact that's what I would do as an end user. If the drive doesn't spin, then that would point to a PCB failure. A common failure mode is a shorted TVS diode, in which case the PSU would be at fault. Many users are unaware of staggered spinup, so their drive arrays all spin up at once, thereby stressing the PSU. It is during this time that the supply rails can overshoot.

DOA failures could also be the result of mishandling during shipment.

Completely agree - if its working fine, you don't jump on a blog and post about how well it's doing what it's supposed to do hence you mostly see bad feedback - it's only when it goes all wrong that people complain. I put more stock in an official review, than individuals issues.

At the end of the day, use the WD products as they are designed and marketed to be used if you want your warranty in tact, otherwise, use them however you wish and cross your fingers

Personally, I prefer to create an image of my C😀rive and backup a copy of important stuff on an external drive once a week - RAID 1 simply mirrors everything on the fly, but does not protect data from Viruses, accidental deletion, corruption or provide rollback functionality for updates etc. RAID 1 is not really a Backup in the strictest sense - it is a copy on the same physical piece of hardware.

An example of what WD would consider a 'proper' use of the drives in this scenario:
PC runs a Black edition HDD for all the day to day stuff.
You run a backup, Primary drive image, nightly, weekly or whatever onto a NAS or External Backup drive (2 x WD Red configured in RAID 1)

Say the Black falls over or fails on the Primary PC, your data is safe as it's on an external drive or Networked NAS, simply replace the Black and restore/reimage from the last NAS/Back-up.

It's more likely you will have a virus corrupting data before you have a HDD mechanical failure, RAID 1 protects the latter, but not the former which is more damaging if you have no backup.