- Jan 13, 2019
- 9
- 0
- 10
Introduction
My main computer, on which I am typing this message, I first built at the end of 2010, and now needs replacing: it has become unreliable over the last year or two, with random blue screens not fixed by upgrading the PSU to a high-end 1.2kW unit and with no errors showing on MemTest. Also, performance is now problematic in a number of tasks, including photograph editing, gaming, watching 4k video at 60fps, amateur software development and general multi-tasking.
I am now looking to build a completely new system, having not undertaken a major computer build for a number of years, and I should be grateful for anyone's thoughts on my provisional conclusions.
Use cases
I have quite a varied set of use cases for my PC, including:
The amateur software development is of an open source computer game called Simutrans-Extended, a fork of the original Simutrans (a sort of Transport Tycoon clone) from the late 1990s. The original game was not very demanding on hardware at all, but the Extended version is much more complex (and the maps are orders of magnitude larger) and is actually very computationally intensive. I added substantial multi-threading support in 2016 for the most computationally intensive parts of the code, albeit because of the older architecture of the game and the fact that the multi-threading applies only to specific parts of the code, not all cores are fully utilised when running (the details of how it works are quite complex and I can elaborate if this would assist).
However, such parts as are multi-threaded are able to take full advantage of an arbitrary number of threads and are not limited to 2 threads as some commercial titles are. Parts of the code remain single threaded, however. Performance of this software when using a non-optimised debugging build on large maps (such as when users report bugs and upload reproduction cases in very large saved games) is problematically unresponsive on my current computer.
Also, there are some potential new features that I would like to add in the future that are not likely to be workable with <16 or so cores.
My current build
For reference, my current specification is as follows:
* This is not an ideal arrangement; but I wanted to be able to enjoy 4k gaming in early 2016, and this was the only way of doing it at the time.
** These are upgraded components
The HDD is mainly used to store photographs and videos and is now virtually full and problematically slow. The old 850Gb SSD used to be the main system drive until it was replaced with the 1Tb model; it has now been cascaded to being the encrypted drive (using VeraCrypt) to store client data that I use for my professional work. The other volumes on the system are not encrypted.
The system is air-cooled using a very large low noise heatsink from Noctua with the two huge fans. The degree of cooling is not ideal; semi-idle (i.e. with web browsing) CPU temperatures to-day are 60-70C. The GPUs very easily get to 80C and then thermally throttle under load: I had to cut a large hole in the side of my case and sit a fan in that hole right next to them to mitigate this somewhat. The two cards are problematically close to each other in my current case, so heat builds up between them: I have had to remove the backplate of one and use the SLI protector blanking plugs as spacers to force them a few mm more apart than they would otherwise be. I believe that these are factory overclocked cards.
Parts intended to be retained for the new build
A number of the components are either fairly new or still good and do not need upgrading. The parts that I intend (unless some reason becomes apparent not to do so) to use in the new build for their original primary purpose are as follows:
* I am likely to replace this with another of similar specification to allow me to use my existing monitor in my new shed with a small Intel i5 NUC, but that should not materially affect this build.
I also intend to migrate all of the storage devices to the new case and use them at least initially to transfer data, although the HDD I plan to disconnect and cease to use once I have transferred the files. I plan to cascade the existing main SSD to be the encrypted SSD after a while and retire the old SSD (but possibly keep it connected as it is silent unlike the HDD and draws much less power). This is significant for the choice of case.
The graphics cards I do plan to upgrade eventually but it seems a little early to do so now.
Room location
The computer will be in my study next to my desk sitting on wooden floorboards. There is enough space for a full tower case, and there will be no real advantage in having a case shorter than necessary.
Budget
I am not heavily constrained by budget, but I do not want to waste money on something that is unlikely ever to be of any noticeable benefit to my current or reasonably likely future use cases.
I tend to build computers to last a long time (my previous major builds being in 1998, 2003 and 2010), with high specifications when initially built that become respectable and then tolerable over the expected lifecycle, which seems to get longer with each generation, so this is relevant to the overall value for money proposition.
Particular requirements
Aside from the use cases given above, my particular preferences are set out below:
Preliminary specifications
I have put together what I think is a sensible outline idea of the sort of system/components that might be sensible to fulfil my requirements, although I am unsure about a number of things, and I should be grateful for feedback on these. These are the components that are currently planned to be new rather than cascaded from my current system:
I am provisionally planning to use the Precision Boost Overdrive feature to overclock this CPU rather than overclock manually as I have done with my last two builds.
Areas of uncertainty
As will be noted above, I have yet fully to research a number of the components; any thoughts in this regard would be much appreciated.
I am still not entirely sure as to whether the Threadripper is the best architecture as against the Intel given the latter's better per clock performance, although I note some concerns about the latter's thermal performance and the price difference seems to be very great.
I am not sure whether air cooling as specified above would be preferable to an all-in-one water cooler with a very large (~360mm) radiator (an open loop system is not something that I would consider owing to the extra work involved in building and maintaining it). Some tests seem to show little or no thermal improvement with this sort of liquid cooling (although I am not sure whether this includes testing with the larger radiators which a larger case as I am considering should be able to fit), and I note that, given my strong preference for quietness, one has to contend with the noise of the pump as well as the noise of the fans. There is also the question of whether to water cool CPU, GPUs (given the planned upgrade in 1-2 years of these), both or neither, as well as the question of how best to cool the VRMs etc. if not using an air cooler for the CPU. I should be most grateful for people's thoughts on this issue.
Thermal paste seems to be applied differently these days, at least in the Youtube videos that I have watched, than was recommended in the 2000s. I recall the standard advice always being to use a small amount of paste and then manually spread it (with gloved hand) to an even, thin film on the die before fixing the heatsink. This was using compound such as the original Arctic Silver. The standard procedure now appears to be to apply several large dollops of it to the die/heatspreader and let the force of attaching the heatsink squash it into a film: but this appears to produce a very thick film, which I always recall being advised (back in the 2000s) was not good at all for thermal conductivity. What has changed - are people just using bad technique now, or have more modern thermal compounds called for newer methods?
Also - I still have plenty of thermal compound from the 2000s left; is it sensible to use it, or is it better to replace it with new thermal compound?
Finally, the operating system: I am still unsure of whether to use Windows 10 or Ubuntu 18.04. I have used Ubuntu for many years on secondary computers, most recently my i5 NUC that I use for work and some other things (and that will be used in my shed when that has been finished), and in many ways it is quite satisfactory, but I worry about things such as compatibility with photograph editing software (Capture One Pro can run in Virtualbox, but it presumably loses GPU acceleration support when doing so and requires more work to set up the storage to be accessible equally from actual Linux in a sensible place). Gaming is less of a concern as my favourite games are mostly compatible with Linux in any event (e.g. Cities: Skylines, Prison Architect and Civilization VI), and Simutrans-Extended is cross-platform, although I have always used Visual Studio for debugging and am not quite sure how to set up a graphical debugger in Linux or how well that Visual Studio works in a VM. I am somewhat concerned by the lack of control over one's own computer that using Windows 10 entails, however. I also intend to upgrade my tablet from an Android tablet of 2014 vintage to a Surface Pro at some point if this makes any difference.
Conclusion
I should be very grateful for people's input in relation to these matters: it would be much appreciated.
My main computer, on which I am typing this message, I first built at the end of 2010, and now needs replacing: it has become unreliable over the last year or two, with random blue screens not fixed by upgrading the PSU to a high-end 1.2kW unit and with no errors showing on MemTest. Also, performance is now problematic in a number of tasks, including photograph editing, gaming, watching 4k video at 60fps, amateur software development and general multi-tasking.
I am now looking to build a completely new system, having not undertaken a major computer build for a number of years, and I should be grateful for anyone's thoughts on my provisional conclusions.
Use cases
I have quite a varied set of use cases for my PC, including:
■photograph editing;
■video editing (currently 1080p, but would like to be able to edit 4k video in future);
■gaming;
■amateur software development;
■watching high-resolution video (my current computer cannot cope with 4k @ 60fps);
■Blender (for low-resolution graphics for software development but also increasingly for 3d printing; not so much high resolution rendering);
■office tasks with heavy multi-tasking (including using an all-in-one LED ("laser") printer with a very efficient double sided ADF for the scanner);
■storage of sensitive data for professional purposes (I use an encrypted SSD to store this in order to conform to European data protection legislation); and
■some other miscellaneous things such as computer control of model railways.
The amateur software development is of an open source computer game called Simutrans-Extended, a fork of the original Simutrans (a sort of Transport Tycoon clone) from the late 1990s. The original game was not very demanding on hardware at all, but the Extended version is much more complex (and the maps are orders of magnitude larger) and is actually very computationally intensive. I added substantial multi-threading support in 2016 for the most computationally intensive parts of the code, albeit because of the older architecture of the game and the fact that the multi-threading applies only to specific parts of the code, not all cores are fully utilised when running (the details of how it works are quite complex and I can elaborate if this would assist).
However, such parts as are multi-threaded are able to take full advantage of an arbitrary number of threads and are not limited to 2 threads as some commercial titles are. Parts of the code remain single threaded, however. Performance of this software when using a non-optimised debugging build on large maps (such as when users report bugs and upload reproduction cases in very large saved games) is problematically unresponsive on my current computer.
Also, there are some potential new features that I would like to add in the future that are not likely to be workable with <16 or so cores.
My current build
For reference, my current specification is as follows:
■Intel Core i7 950 (first generation, 4 cores) overclocked to 4.12Ghz;
■12Gb of RAM (which is proving inadequate especially given my fondness for large numbers of browser tabs);
■2x 980Ti in SLI*;
■a PCIe Creative sound card**;
■a TSST DVDWBD SH-B123L rewritable DVD drive;
■2x SATA SSDs: (1) 1Tb Samsung EVO 2.5" from 2016**; and (2) one OCZ Vertex 2 3.5" 800Gb from 2010;
■a 2Tb WD Green HDD;
■dual monitors: (1) 4k 31" Asus Predator XB321HK; and (2) an Asus 1440p monitor (in vertical orientation);
■a 1.2kW PSU**; and
■Windows 7 64-bit.
* This is not an ideal arrangement; but I wanted to be able to enjoy 4k gaming in early 2016, and this was the only way of doing it at the time.
** These are upgraded components
The HDD is mainly used to store photographs and videos and is now virtually full and problematically slow. The old 850Gb SSD used to be the main system drive until it was replaced with the 1Tb model; it has now been cascaded to being the encrypted drive (using VeraCrypt) to store client data that I use for my professional work. The other volumes on the system are not encrypted.
The system is air-cooled using a very large low noise heatsink from Noctua with the two huge fans. The degree of cooling is not ideal; semi-idle (i.e. with web browsing) CPU temperatures to-day are 60-70C. The GPUs very easily get to 80C and then thermally throttle under load: I had to cut a large hole in the side of my case and sit a fan in that hole right next to them to mitigate this somewhat. The two cards are problematically close to each other in my current case, so heat builds up between them: I have had to remove the backplate of one and use the SLI protector blanking plugs as spacers to force them a few mm more apart than they would otherwise be. I believe that these are factory overclocked cards.
Parts intended to be retained for the new build
A number of the components are either fairly new or still good and do not need upgrading. The parts that I intend (unless some reason becomes apparent not to do so) to use in the new build for their original primary purpose are as follows:
■2x 980Ti in SLI;
■dual monitors: (1) 4k 31" Asus Predator XB321HK; and (2) an Asus 1440p monitor (in vertical orientation)*;
■the PCIe Creative sound card;
■the TSST DVDWBD SH-B123L rewritable DVD drive; and
■the 1.2kW PSU.
* I am likely to replace this with another of similar specification to allow me to use my existing monitor in my new shed with a small Intel i5 NUC, but that should not materially affect this build.
I also intend to migrate all of the storage devices to the new case and use them at least initially to transfer data, although the HDD I plan to disconnect and cease to use once I have transferred the files. I plan to cascade the existing main SSD to be the encrypted SSD after a while and retire the old SSD (but possibly keep it connected as it is silent unlike the HDD and draws much less power). This is significant for the choice of case.
The graphics cards I do plan to upgrade eventually but it seems a little early to do so now.
Room location
The computer will be in my study next to my desk sitting on wooden floorboards. There is enough space for a full tower case, and there will be no real advantage in having a case shorter than necessary.
Budget
I am not heavily constrained by budget, but I do not want to waste money on something that is unlikely ever to be of any noticeable benefit to my current or reasonably likely future use cases.
I tend to build computers to last a long time (my previous major builds being in 1998, 2003 and 2010), with high specifications when initially built that become respectable and then tolerable over the expected lifecycle, which seems to get longer with each generation, so this is relevant to the overall value for money proposition.
Particular requirements
Aside from the use cases given above, my particular preferences are set out below:
■low noise, especially it idle or low loads: I prefer to use "quiet" cases - this is quite a high priority;
■a traditional appearance - I am not a fan of glass sides and RGB lighting;
■very low maintenance: the less often that I have to clean dust filters, replace fans with failed bearings, etc. the better;
■ease of maintenance: accessing the case and adding/removing things should be as non-awkward as possible in every way;
■ease of building: I do not want to have to mess around with custom water cooled setups, for example, or work on a cramped, awkward case;
■very high responsiveness in general use and photograph/video editing (my current computer is unacceptably slow in photograph editing);
■upgradability with relative ease;
■longevity given how long that I like my computer builds to last.
Preliminary specifications
I have put together what I think is a sensible outline idea of the sort of system/components that might be sensible to fulfil my requirements, although I am unsure about a number of things, and I should be grateful for feedback on these. These are the components that are currently planned to be new rather than cascaded from my current system:
■AMD Threadripper 2950x (16 core);
■Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 air cooler;
■Gigabyte AMD AORUS X399 XTREME E-ATX or Asus Prime X399-A motherboard;
■not quite sure about the memory yet, but plenty of it and whatever is recommended to work best with the Threadripper 2;
■not entirely sure about the case yet, but something large enough to take E-ATX and optimised for quiet computing, perhaps something like the Be Quiet! BG012;
■Samsung EVO 850 4TB SSD (for storage of photographs, videos and downloads, not encrypted); and
■a ~1Tb M.2 drive for boot and system applications - I am not sure of which one yet.
I am provisionally planning to use the Precision Boost Overdrive feature to overclock this CPU rather than overclock manually as I have done with my last two builds.
Areas of uncertainty
As will be noted above, I have yet fully to research a number of the components; any thoughts in this regard would be much appreciated.
I am still not entirely sure as to whether the Threadripper is the best architecture as against the Intel given the latter's better per clock performance, although I note some concerns about the latter's thermal performance and the price difference seems to be very great.
I am not sure whether air cooling as specified above would be preferable to an all-in-one water cooler with a very large (~360mm) radiator (an open loop system is not something that I would consider owing to the extra work involved in building and maintaining it). Some tests seem to show little or no thermal improvement with this sort of liquid cooling (although I am not sure whether this includes testing with the larger radiators which a larger case as I am considering should be able to fit), and I note that, given my strong preference for quietness, one has to contend with the noise of the pump as well as the noise of the fans. There is also the question of whether to water cool CPU, GPUs (given the planned upgrade in 1-2 years of these), both or neither, as well as the question of how best to cool the VRMs etc. if not using an air cooler for the CPU. I should be most grateful for people's thoughts on this issue.
Thermal paste seems to be applied differently these days, at least in the Youtube videos that I have watched, than was recommended in the 2000s. I recall the standard advice always being to use a small amount of paste and then manually spread it (with gloved hand) to an even, thin film on the die before fixing the heatsink. This was using compound such as the original Arctic Silver. The standard procedure now appears to be to apply several large dollops of it to the die/heatspreader and let the force of attaching the heatsink squash it into a film: but this appears to produce a very thick film, which I always recall being advised (back in the 2000s) was not good at all for thermal conductivity. What has changed - are people just using bad technique now, or have more modern thermal compounds called for newer methods?
Also - I still have plenty of thermal compound from the 2000s left; is it sensible to use it, or is it better to replace it with new thermal compound?
Finally, the operating system: I am still unsure of whether to use Windows 10 or Ubuntu 18.04. I have used Ubuntu for many years on secondary computers, most recently my i5 NUC that I use for work and some other things (and that will be used in my shed when that has been finished), and in many ways it is quite satisfactory, but I worry about things such as compatibility with photograph editing software (Capture One Pro can run in Virtualbox, but it presumably loses GPU acceleration support when doing so and requires more work to set up the storage to be accessible equally from actual Linux in a sensible place). Gaming is less of a concern as my favourite games are mostly compatible with Linux in any event (e.g. Cities: Skylines, Prison Architect and Civilization VI), and Simutrans-Extended is cross-platform, although I have always used Visual Studio for debugging and am not quite sure how to set up a graphical debugger in Linux or how well that Visual Studio works in a VM. I am somewhat concerned by the lack of control over one's own computer that using Windows 10 entails, however. I also intend to upgrade my tablet from an Android tablet of 2014 vintage to a Surface Pro at some point if this makes any difference.
Conclusion
I should be very grateful for people's input in relation to these matters: it would be much appreciated.
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