First time water cooling loop builder, need an experienced water cooling expert to check parts/compatibility

[nemesis_xviii]

Hey all, I've been thinking about water cooling my computer for a while now and have finally saved up enough money (~$450) to start off. rubix_1011, I read some of your threads and would be glad for your input in my question.

My PC build is as follows:

Spoiler

Fractal Design Define S (Windowed)
Asus Z170 Pro Gaming Motherboard
Intel Core-i5 6600K Processor
Asus R9 290 DirectCU II OC
Gigabyte R9 290 Windforce OC (Rev 1.0)
EVGA SuperNove G3 1000W PSU
Seagate 1TB HDD
Kingston HyperX 2666Mhz DDR4 RAM (8gbx1)

I would like to cool my CPU only for now as my budget does not allow for the GPUs to be cooled. Plus, it's really hard to find nice looking waterblocks for the 290s since almost no one carries them anymore. So, I decided to wait until I get a better GPU (maybe RX Vega ) and get a waterblock for it later on. Point of the story, I need a good pump right now so I don't have to replace it later on. I will probably add another 360 rad for the gpu in the future so I hope the pump I picked is enough to go through the loop.

Here's my proposed parts for the loop:

Spoiler

Alphacool Eisbecher 250mm Plexi Reservoir ($62.95)
Swiftech MCP50X ($69.99)
XSPC RayStorm WaterBlock V3 ($59.99)
XSPC RX360 V3 ($84.95)
Bitspower None Chamfer PETG Link Tube, 12mm OD, 500mm, Clear, 4-pack ($21.99)
2x Barrow G1/4" to 12mm Hard Tubing Compression Fitting, Black, 4-pack (2x$19.99)
XSPC G1/4" Ball Valve ($11.99)
XSPC G1/4" Threaded T-Fitting ($9.49)
XSPC G1/4" Plug V2, 4-pack ($10.99)
Barrow Male-to-male 4mm Extender G1/4 ($4.99)
Alphacool Silicon Bending Insert for 10mm (3/8") ID, 30cm ($8.49)
XSPC 1/2" ID Barb Fitting with G1/4" Threads 2-Pack ($6.95)
BXQINLENX 3/8" X 1/2" Water Cooling Tubing Hose ($6.98) (FOR DRAIN VALVE)
XSPC ECX Ultra Concentrate Coolant, Blood Red ($11.95)
2x Arctic F12 PWM PST Case Fan, 5 Pack (2x$21.99)

Are these parts compatible/good? Is this pump enough to later support 2 360 rads a gpu and cpu block? Is the XSPC coolant ok? Or should I go for Mayhems/EK? I know the soft tube and barb don't match up but it's really just for draining/filling the loop so I picked the cheapest hose I could find. If there's something cheaper with 1/2 in ID I'd be glad to get it over this. Also, is it better for the res/pump to be connected via a male-to-male fitting or using two g1/4 fittings and some tube (so the pump isn't hanging in the air)? Also, is it ok for the pump to be floating in the air or not? (beneath the res) I'm scared after the vibrations the fittings will slip off and it will fall down. Thanks in advance!

 

[L0stChild]

sorry to be a buzz kill but I suggest:
+$150 for SSD
+1x DDR4 for dual channel

and yeah wait for rubix to reply

 

[n0ns3ns3]

I hate to ruin the joy, but i'd suggest to scrap the plan.
the reason is that the parts (i5 and r9) are not worth the money and effort. Watercooling is usually done with spare/extra money. Like L0stChild mentioned, it would be better to invest the SAVINGS to improve things like RAM or get and SSD. Well, buying an i7 would be more practical (real benefit) than watercooling components you have (0 practical benefit).
If for some unknown reason you still want to do it, there is no problem with your list IF the reservoir is this :
http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/water-cooling/reservoirs/tubing-reservoirs/60mm-l/19423/alphacool-eisbecher-ddc-250mm-plexi-ausgleichsbehaelter
DDC pump is fine and will do the job with 2 rads and 2 blocks without problem.
The few comments that I have are:
1. this list is "boring". There are much more "fun" components for the purpose for about the same price. Ask if you like to learn more.
2. 2x360 rads in Define S is very tight fit. you picked a 130mm wide rad - might be a problem for RAM/MB VRM heatsink clearance. I'd recommend using slim XFlow radiators for practical reasons like much easier drain/fill and tubing rout. And of course a cleaner look. for the versatility - alphacool nexXxos ST30 XFlow is probably the best - ports on both sides and only 122mm wide. As a second option, HWLabs black ice nemesis GTS 320 XFlow is probably the best looking radiator with best finish, also happens to be top performer in the class.
3. I like the D5 pumps more. you can get one for under 70$. the lowest D5 i've seen is 45pounds - ~57USD.
4. Barrow fittings are no match to more popular brands. I have a bunch of those. and while the only "real" complain about their fittings is mediocre paint job, their rotary fittings, adapters are worse then competitions. Try to use just slightly more expensive fittings like Alphacool Eiszapfen http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/water-cooling/fittings/acylic-tube-fittings/1210mm/21639/alphacool-eiszapfen-12mm-hardtube-anschraubtuelle-g1/4-fuer-carbonrohre-deep-black-sixpack
5. red coolant is bad for anything but showroom. it's the worst color when it comes to staining and residue which also happens to clog the microfins in blocks.
6. those fans are not really a good pick for radiator.

Bottom line, for 300-350$ you can have amazing CPU loop.
There are also a new "gaming" kits from EK that for CPU only will cost about 160$ or about 250 for CPU+GPU.

 

[nemesis_xviii]

I hate to ruin the joy, but i'd suggest to scrap the plan.
the reason is that the parts (i5 and r9) are not worth the money and effort. Watercooling is usually done with spare/extra money. Like L0stChild mentioned, it would be better to invest the SAVINGS to improve things like RAM or get and SSD. Well, buying an i7 would be more practical (real benefit) than watercooling components you have (0 practical benefit).
If for some unknown reason you still want to do it, there is no problem with your list IF the reservoir is this :
http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/water-cooling/reservoirs/tubing-reservoirs/60mm-l/19423/alphacool-eisbecher-ddc-250mm-plexi-ausgleichsbehaelter
DDC pump is fine and will do the job with 2 rads and 2 blocks without problem.
The few comments that I have are:
1. this list is "boring". There are much more "fun" components for the purpose for about the same price. Ask if you like to learn more.
2. 2x360 rads in Define S is very tight fit. you picked a 130mm wide rad - might be a problem for RAM/MB VRM heatsink clearance. I'd recommend using slim XFlow radiators for practical reasons like much easier drain/fill and tubing rout. And of course a cleaner look. for the versatility - alphacool nexXxos ST30 XFlow is probably the best - ports on both sides and only 122mm wide. As a second option, HWLabs black ice nemesis GTS 320 XFlow is probably the best looking radiator with best finish, also happens to be top performer in the class.
3. I like the D5 pumps more. you can get one for under 70$. the lowest D5 i've seen is 45pounds - ~57USD.
4. Barrow fittings are no match to more popular brands. I have a bunch of those. and while the only "real" complain about their fittings is mediocre paint job, their rotary fittings, adapters are worse then competitions. Try to use just slightly more expensive fittings like Alphacool Eiszapfen http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/water-cooling/fittings/acylic-tube-fittings/1210mm/21639/alphacool-eiszapfen-12mm-hardtube-anschraubtuelle-g1/4-fuer-carbonrohre-deep-black-sixpack
5. red coolant is bad for anything but showroom. it's the worst color when it comes to staining and residue which also happens to clog the microfins in blocks.
6. those fans are not really a good pick for radiator.

Bottom line, for 300-350$ you can have amazing CPU loop.
There are also a new "gaming" kits from EK that for CPU only will cost about 160$ or about 250 for CPU+GPU.

Hmm I didn't think about that... I did want to get an M.2 drive since they're relatively cheap right now just for my OS and some games, but about the i5... I really only game. I don't plan to do ANY video editing or streaming. This is the reason I initially went for an i5 and not an i7. Would it really benefit me??? And as for the more fun parts, I'd gladly learn about what they are lol, I was just looking for cheapest things that would give me good temps and silence (and also headroom to add on later). The res is the one you linked. Can you please link me to d5 pumps under $70 or $60? The cheapest I've seen with a top are about $90+. I heard Barrow angle fittings are crap BUT I planned to only use their hard compression fittings as I wanted to bend the PETG myself and not use a single angle fitting. Red coolant bad? Yeah, I thought so. Is there any coolant that isn't bad? Like what about yellow? Or green? Also why are those fans bad? They are relatively silent and have ok pressure if put in push-pull. Plus they are really cheap compared to others (I can get five of these for $20 whereas others it's only 1 fan for the same money). I so the old EK kits which were like $300+ and saw no point in them since they aren't really expandable. Which kit are you talking about specifically? Could you please provide a link? Also, you said it's only $250 for GPU+CPU. If that's the case, that'd be the option I'd go probably after getting another ram stick + M.2 drive. But, from what I've seen, the only way to get a waterblock on my 290s is either buy some from ebay which go for $150+ or get an EK block that covers only chip for the 900 NVidia series and just get a bracket for AMD.

EDIT:I just looked at the kits you suggested from ek and the gpu supported is only the new nvidia series (10 series, titan, and all that jazz) meaning nothing for poor me however, i now think I'll get their cpu 240 kit, get me an M.2, sum moar ram, and call it a day. I'd still have plenty of money left over to save up for vega in this case. Still wondering and cpu though. You say i7 but I don't see any point in it. Will it really improve game performance? (Is it throtting my 290s lol?)

 

[n0ns3ns3]

here is the "news" link on the new EK kit http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ekwb-fluid-gaming-open-loop-kits,34605.html
the only GPUs it will fit, are the nvidia pascal cards with reference PCB (1070,1080,1080Ti, Titan cards).
It is very decently priced for what it is. I wouldn't go for less than https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-kit-l360-r2-0 this one for CPU and GPU. moreover, i'd add another rad to keep things quiet.

cheapest pump i ever seen is out of stock now: https://mayhems.co.uk/pumps/laing-d5-vario-8-24v-pump-w-tach-cable-option-mcp655-and-etc./
the price is including VAT (about 20%) - so if you live outside UK they exclude the VAT when you place an order.
they also do the best coolants/colors. Other than "red" most liquid dies are fine.

of course the D5 with good top + res will cost starting at 150USD.

It's not important what are the "paper" specs of the fans. The question is how they perform on various RPM and how long they last.
for example some fans are "bad" at max values, but very good at low-med RPM and vice versa. So far, I have not seen a fan that can beat noctua's NF-F12 for radiator application in real world use.

the cool things are:
1. CPU block from Aquacomputer - I like the VISION NEXT https://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=3537
2. Tops and reservoirs from Singularity Computers - the frosted version is simply awesome.
3. Glass tube reservoirs from Aquacomputer
4. Lighting from alphacool - eislicht
5. glass tubing - expensive due to no bending and tricky to work with, but is the best looking and does not get stained or damaged with any coolant. PETG is probably the worse hardline tubing.

the list can go on with thermal and flow sensors and nice monitoring/control HW like aquaereo 5 or 6, fittings and other parts with integrated RGB. UV staff etc.

the thing with i5 is that is many modern AAA titles it's already close to 100%. moreover, for 144Hz and up gaming, it simply can not maintain 100+ FPS in quite a few games even as old as crysis 3. That not to mention smoother freezes free gameplay due to much more consistent frame times on i7. So if you happen to own one of those 144Hz monitors or for years to come i7 is really worth it.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not against liquid cooling. I love it and doing it for over a decade. Just want make sure you understand the implications and cost of your choices. and of course prioritize the purchases accordingly.

If you still want to go liquid, my advice is don't try to get it cheap. It does not mean that you should waste or overpay without reason. just practically D5 is undying pump especially the non PWM version. The top from Singularity Computers is versatile - you can use it both with res directly attached and with tube extension. You can reuse it in many configurations/builds. the noctua fans are refusing to die. They have 6 years warranty. I have a couple of them in use for 6-7 years and the only reason i switched them out from my main rig was that I wanted black fans for more consistent look. So I went with their industrialPPC versions. I used one of them as a PSU fan replacement which runs in secondary rig. the CPU block should also allow easy mounting plate replacement and from a company that cares to make new mountings for existing blocks. this approach can save you time and money in the long run.

 

[rubix_1011]

If this is a new build, definitely a m2 NVMe if you can price it out. Otherwise, get a good SSD. Also, more RAM is highly beneficial and I wouldn't do any build today with less than 16GB of DDR4 and at least an i7....depending on your camp, AMD alternative.

So, with that out of the way, shall we dig into this?

Pump: D5 is always a fan favorite, but I am also a big fan of DDC pumps, especially in series and even in series at different points in the loop. The MCP50x is a good choice. Much of this depends on whether you want to run a single pump, multiple pumps, and what size tubing you want to use. Of course, pump tops and fittings really kind of allow you to decide most of this.

Reservoir: debatable as to what you really want, here since it doesn't provide any cooling potential, it merely holds excess liquid and doesn't leak. Also, if you're planning to integrate your pump with your reservoir, good to see if that design is plausible, otherwise, tubing runs take care of that.

CPU block: Raystorm is pretty old, unless there is a new model I haven't seen lately - which is possible since I haven't been shopping around much. Don't get me wrong, it is/was a good block but there have been better designs since it was first released. WaterCool Heatkiller IV, Koolance 380 or EK Supremacy are usually considered some of the best blocks available. But, you're talking a few degrees C at most between almost all, and that is still partial to your thermal paste selection and application.

Radiator: XSPC RX360 is very old...like...over a decade old. Sometimes hard to still find stock, but is still a very highly rated radiator. There are better models but at a price. Alphacool's UT and XT lines are very good and relatively thick radiators. EK also has some good, similar contenders as well. HW Labs has the usual SR2 Black Ice which has held up well like the RX360. Check out the flow rates and fan speed delta charts here - http://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/04/21/xspc-ax360-radiator-review/5/ This is stuff that I really dig and also do when I have hardware to actually test...finding Delta-T curves and performance analysis.

Fittings: As long as you maintain correct ID/OD for your fittings and tubing, you should be fine, here. Not sure what all the extender and insert thingies are that you have listed, but I am assuming they are somewhat for your T-line, which might be a bit extravagant. A simple T-fitting and piece of tubing with a plug does just the same, or, just make sure you have a run that is low in your case, and when you drain, disconnect it. A drain line is often rarely used, even once, because if you're draining your loop for maintenance, you're probably going to be replacing tubing, anyway.

Coolant: I am an advocate for distilled water only. Dye or colored tubing if you want color. Otherwise, some sort of anti-microbial is essential to prevent growth. Killcoil is not needed - anti-microbial accomplishes this.

Here is my advice - if you're going to watercool, do it right. Skimping or buying cheap is going to leave you unhappy or unsatisfied down the road. If you have to plan out and buy components on a budget, do it. Find exactly what you want. In this day and age, watercooling isn't really necessary unless you're really cranking down on a CPU or GPU overclock, however, it will allow you to run a bit cooler even at stock. Is it rewarding and fun as a hobby? Absolutely - the entire reason I've done it for about 14 years. If you're looking for absolute performance from your PC, then use the watercooling money and buy better parts first, and then see what you want to do. Don't skimp on a CPU, RAM or SSD to save money for watercooling because what will happen is you'll end up with mediocre watercooling and a mediocre PC because your budget decided for both at the same time.

 

[nemesis_xviii]

Do you think this is enough for cpu loop? https://m.newegg.com/products/9SIAC8W5SB2261?nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP-Mobile&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-Mobile-_-pla-_-Liquid+%2f+Water+Cooling-_-9SIAC8W5SB2261&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmcTJBRCYirao6oWPyMsBEiQA9hQPbjyXlWVMdUejXXfikCQoxaZGCuJeTy5d8sGIz6ggcHoaAoiL8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds the one with the 360 rad you posted is like twice as much. I only have a 60hz monitor but game at 4k. What would be a good i7 for lga1151? I decided to not do a full loop or do gpus for now because that's just too expensive and the blocks aren't out anymore. The most cpu-intensive games I play are probably Overwatch and BF4. In OW I get 100+ fps in 4K and in BF4 I get around 40, but I think that's my gpus bottlenecking not cpu.

 

[L0stChild]

Just adding to nonsense's comments,
the big picture here is to gain most performance out of each dollar.
You may have your own reason for water cooling and im not trying to pull you away from that.
When it comes down to it, you are able to overclock the 6600k to 4.4-4.5ghz air cooled without dipping into 80c and in turn you can use the money on other upgrades that yield better performance

Watercooling for me really just gives me the ability to overclock my cpu to 4.7-4.8ghz otherwise its mainly just for esthetics and case clearance for my vertically mounted gpu. To be honest, a good portion of water cooled systems arent utilized practically and brings the 'performance per dollar' down.


OP: just curious what temps do you get from the gpus at full load?

 

[nemesis_xviii]

94° C lol, which brings my cpu up higher and I don't wanna OC on air because of that.

Edit: Thanks for the extensive reply rubix, I will use all of the info you provided when I decide to do a full loop in the future. For now I think I'll stick with EK's A240, get a NVME, more RAM, and maybe a better cpu. Again, any suggestions for a decent i7? Or should I stay with i5 and just OC it?

Edit2: I looked up and without upgrading my mobo I'd only be able to use the i7 6700k which is a very minimal increase. The i7 7700k would require a z270 mobo, so right now the question is should I go for the A240 kit or the ek liquid 360? The latter is twice as costlier but supposedly has better materials (?)

Edit3: Would it be a good choice to get two kraken g10's with h55's to cool my gpus? Or wait and get one better gpu?

 

[n0ns3ns3]

the 60Hz does not require more than i5 atm in most cases.
And you can put an i7-7700k on your mother board - it supports the 7th gen. all you have to do is to update the BIOS before you put the new CPU in.
Not sure that G10 supports your GPU, G12 definitely does. but I guess your GPU is already aging and you probably want to upgrade it soon to have the maxed out graphics on 4K. For a cleaner look and better performance, you probably want to have a single loop. So that A240 is a good start.

As a side note: Unfortunately, EK have not announced the spare parts like fittings and radiators for this loop (and you can not use normal copper parts in this loop due to galvanic corrosion) so you will be stuck with flex tubing until EK will release those if at all.

 

[rubix_1011]

Edit 1: i7 6700k is a great CPU, what I have. i5 6600 - would have been better to jump to the i7 initially rather than buying 2 CPUs. Perhaps wait and see what your next build will be, or plan to upgrade and sell? This is where planning out is highly beneficial.

Edit 2: Mostly the same as Edit 1, also, both of those EK kits are good quality, mostly depends on choice for you.

Edit 3: If your question is only around what lies on this line, Wait and get one better GPU. I know people like to argue the AIO cooler option for GPUs, but if you're going to liquid cool a GPU, do it properly, not with a cooler that isn't designed for a TDP of 150-250 or higher. Most AIOs are designed for TDP of 75-125w simply based on radiator size of 120mm.

 

[nemesis_xviii]

Thank you rubix_1011, n0ns3ns3, and L0stChild for all your help! I have decided to get the A240, a samsung m.2, another 8gb ram stick, and some noctua fans. This will all be around $300 over $150 cheaper than my planned loop. Thank you all again! As this thread is done you can close it rubix_1011.