First water cooling loop am i on the right track?.

[Tommy Marriner]

OK so I have a enthoo primo with a Asus maximus formula vii and a Intel i7 4790k I would like to cool so that I can begin overclocking.
I have never run a custom loop and I am a bit unsure about part compatibility etc. I have done some reading on the subject and come up with part of my shopping list.
I wish to expand this loop in the future to overclock some graphics cards so I have gone fore a dual loop. Probably more trouble than it is worth but it seems like a nice idea.
For now each loop will cool a different part the motherboard and the CPU then in the future the motherboard and some GPUs.

If someone could give my shopping list a quick look that would be great.
Also if you know of any good guides to picking parts and setting up that would be great. I do not know many people interested in this lucky them because I would be picking their brain on this topic.
I hope this is not to noobish as this probably gets asked a lot but any opinions would be great.

EK Supremacy EVO CPU Waterblock x1
EK CoolStream PE 120 Single Radiatorx1
XSPC Acrylic Dual 5.25in Reservoir Pump Combo with Two Laing DDC x1
EK Ekoolant Pastel Concentrate 250ml White x1 or 2?
XSPC G1/4 Chrome 3/8in ID 5/8in OD Compression Fitting x10
PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT maximusClear 3/8ID 5/8OD 3m x1
EK CoolStream PE 480 Quad Radiator x1
distilled water a biocide of course a silver a coil and quick disconnects.
Any suggestions on fittings such as brand etc would be great.

 

[06yfz450ridr]

doesnt look to bad, I wouldnt use the ek pastel liquid I havent heard good things about it if i remember correctly.

also you really dont need to cool you mobo, its nice but isnt really needed.

a nice single loop even with your gpus will be a much better idea in my eyes.


the lrt tubing is some of the best you can buy,that is what i run and it wont break down after a while.

 

[faalin]

Your going to what at least a 240mm or 2x120mm radiator for your cpu. I would only use a single 120mm radiator if your going to keep the cpu at stock speeds.

Compression fittings are fine just make sure you get a good bite on them, wiggle the hose around to make sure its not going to come loose. I always stuck with the good old barb and hose clamp

Don't use dyes in the coolant, they will stain the tubing, reservoir, and blocks. Learned this the hard way with one of my builds. If you want color then get colored tubing.

 

[06yfz450ridr]

Your going to what at least a 240mm or 2x120mm radiator for your cpu. I would only use a single 120mm radiator if your going to keep the cpu at stock speeds.

Compression fittings are fine just make sure you get a good bite on them, wiggle the hose around to make sure its not going to come loose. I always stuck with the good old barb and hose clamp

Don't use dyes in the coolant, they will stain the tubing, reservoir, and blocks. Learned this the hard way with one of my builds. If you want color then get colored tubing.

hes got 1 120 and 1 480 overkill for now even if he does add a single gpu to it

 

[faalin]

Your going to what at least a 240mm or 2x120mm radiator for your cpu. I would only use a single 120mm radiator if your going to keep the cpu at stock speeds.

Compression fittings are fine just make sure you get a good bite on them, wiggle the hose around to make sure its not going to come loose. I always stuck with the good old barb and hose clamp

Don't use dyes in the coolant, they will stain the tubing, reservoir, and blocks. Learned this the hard way with one of my builds. If you want color then get colored tubing.

hes got 1 120 and 1 480 overkill for now even if he does add a single gpu to it

yeah I see it know, just kinda did a quick read through on the list

 

[Tommy Marriner]

Ok good idea with the dye i thought it would look cool but thinking it just adds more cost.
And yes the 120 is for the motherboard its there to be cooled so I thought I may as well. And the cover on the board does not exactly help keep it cool i have noticed.
With the barbed fittings I'm just so worried I will mess one up. Peace of mind i suppose.

 

[06yfz450ridr]

Ok good idea with the dye i thought it would look cool but thinking it just adds more cost.
And yes the 120 is for the motherboard its there to be cooled so I thought I may as well. And the cover on the board does not exactly help keep it cool i have noticed.
With the barbed fittings I'm just so worried I will mess one up. Peace of mind i suppose.

both fittings are fine, compression are much more expensive but are much easier to remove the tubing from than the barbed.

the barbed you really need to heat them

what are your mobo temps like?

ohh and dont forget to add a spot at the bottom of your loop to drain, will save you time when refilling

 

[Tommy Marriner]

Also I will be adding cards in sli not long after this loop goes in probably 970s but maybe 980s if i have the money and can justify it.

 

[faalin]

I never had an issue getting the tubing off a barb, but I use tygon 3606 3/8id 5/8od tubing, its not cheap but very flexible.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

I have the Maximus VI Formula with 4770k in Enthoo Primo

1. I recommend against the dual loop. Instead I would use a Swiftech 35X2. Piped as folllows:

2. Great choice on water block

3. For twin 780s / 980s, you will want:

420mm radiator on top
280mm radiator on bottom

They fit perfectly, they fit the Phanteks 140mm fans (best fans on the market) and provide 36% more cooling capacity than your 1 +4 x 120 option. You also retain the ability to use the top 5.25" bay for a fan controller, or display as well as the ability to access the top radiator ports for filling. With the 280 you can also see the quik-disconnect fitting which is used to drain the system.

I used Bitspower fittings

You will need 2 bottles of EK / Mayhems pastel

You want radiators with both top and bottom ports. I used the XT45-420 on top and the UT60-280 on bottom. They have better performance than the EK rads and have top and bottom ports as well as screw protectors. You will want to use the Mayhems Blitz kit to clean them.

4. I recommend against pump / res combos. In the pic above you can see I used rigid acrylic tubing and tho you can't see it, I used flexible tubing to connect the pump in order to isolate pump vibration from the rest of the system. That's the EK RES-3 250mm in the pic above which mount's perfectly


Pump Parts:

Pump(s) - Swiftech Dual Extreme Duty Small Form Factor 12 VDC Industrial PWM Pump - Black (MCP35X2-BK)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14961/ex-pmp-173/Swiftech_Dual_Extreme_Duty_Small_Form_Factor_12_VDC_Industrial_PWM_Pump_-_Black_MCP35X2-BK.html

Pump Heat Sink - Swiftech MCP35x2 Dual Pump Heatsink (MCP35X2-HS)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16233/ex-pmp-195/Swiftech_MCP35x2_Dual_Pump_Heatsink_MCP35X2-HS.html

Heat Sink Fan - Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro PC-P 80mm x 15mm Ultra Silent PWM Fan - 2500 RPM
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/image/16392/fan-1017_4.jpg/fan-1017/Noiseblocker_NB-BlackSilentPro_PC-P_80mm_x_15mm_Ultra_Silent_PWM_Fan_-_2500_RPM.html

Reservoir parts

Reservoir - EK-MultiOption RES X3 250 - Liquid Cooling Reservoir - White Acetal (6 Total Ports) w/ (2) EK Extender Fittings
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21672/ex-res-677/EK-MultiOption_RES_X3_250_-_Liquid_Cooling_Reservoir_-_White_Acetal_6_Total_Ports.html?tl=g57c615s1940#blank

Reservoir Top - EK X3 Reservoir Multiport Replacement Top - White (EK-RES X3 - Multiport TOP WHITE)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18485/ex-res-481/EK_X3_Reservoir_Multiport_Replacement_Top_-_White_EK-RES_X3_-_Multiport_TOP_WHITE.html?id=4NiLmkLB&mv_pc=1254

Reservoir Fill Tube Internal Tube 12/16 - 140mm (EK-RES-X3-TUBE-140
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_1165_1162&products_id=36312

EK - Extender Fitting - EK G1/4 Thread Fitting Extender - Nickel - 8mm (Fitting Extender G1/4 (Ni)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18760/scr-701/EK_G14_Thread_Fitting_Extender_-_Nickel_-_8mm_Fitting_Extender_G14_Ni.html?id=4NiLmkLB&mv_pc=1256

Radiator parts

CPU Radiator @ Case Bottom - Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper Double 140mm Radiator 324 x 144 x 60mm (Radiator Watts at 10C, 1250 rpm = 206)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16825/ex-rad-426/Alphacool_NexXxoS_UT60_Full_Copper_Dual_140mm_Radiator.html

GPU Radiator @ Case Top - Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper Triple 140mm Radiator 468 x144 x 46mm (Radiator Watts at 10C, 1250 rpm = 302)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16830/ex-rad-431/Alphacool_NexXxoS_XT45_Full_Copper_Triple_140mm_Radiator.html

Temperature Probes (6) - Bitspower G 1/4" Temperature Sensor Stop Fitting - Matte Black (BP-MBWP-CT)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10373/ex-tub-620/Bitspower_G_14_Temperature_Sensor_Stop_Fitting_-_Matte_Black_BP-MBWP-CT.html?tl=c229s579b145&id=kISyRgfV&mv_pc=643

Temperature Probes Air - Bitspower G 1/4" Temperature Sensor Stop Fitting - Matte Black (BP-MBWP-CT)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10373/ex-tub-620/Bitspower_G_14_Temperature_Sensor_Stop_Fitting_-_Matte_Black_BP-MBWP-CT.html?tl=c229s579b145&id=kISyRgfV&mv_pc=643

G1/4 Fitting Extender (2) - Bitspower G 1/4" Thread Fitting Extender - Matte Black (BP-MBWP-C40)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10371/ex-tub-618/Bitspower_G_14_Thread_Fitting_Extender_-_Matte_Black_BP-MBWP-C40.html?tl=c101s1354b145#options

Fill Port Plug (2) - Bitspower G1/4" Low Profile Matte Black Stop Plug w/ O-Ring (BP-MBWP-C09)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10362/ex-tub-610/Bitspower_G14_Low_Profile_Matte_Black_Stop_Plug_w_O-Ring_BP-MBWP-C09.html

Skipping Water Blocks as you have chosen a great one..... suggest EK for your GFX cards

I used these disconnects for the radiator bottom drain with a 90 elbow and 40mm extender as above (will need to Blue Loctite (the stuff that lets you disassemble) to keep THD fittings from turning when ya twist on / twist off disconnects

Quick-Disconnect for Drain - Bitspower Matte Black Quick-Disconnected Male w/ Inner G1/4 (BP-MBQDMIG14)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17966/ex-tub-1636/Bitspower_Matte_Black_Quick-Disconnected_Male_w_Inner_G14_BP-MBQDMIG14.html ex-tub-1636

Quick-Disconnect for Drain - Bitspower Matte Black Quick-Disconnected Female w/ G1/4 Thread (BP-MBQDFG14)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17965/ex-tub-1635/Bitspower_Matte_Black_Quick-Disconnected_Female_w_G14_Thread_BP-MBQDFG14.html ex-tub-1635


Do NOT use kill coils biocides or anything else with the Mayhems (EK) Pastel. Again you must use the Mayhems Blitz kit to clean the rads.

And no.... I still haven't gotten around to sleeving the cables . But they are all installed.....testament to the cable routing abilities of the Primo

The EK pastel is Mayhems pastel.... it is fine it will not break down, it will not stain decent tubing (Tygon 2475). It will not stain blocks or anything else. It will change color if you don't properly clean the rads.

Oh yes almost forgot..... when you use the built in reservoir mount, you will want to use cards that will not hit the reservoir. That means:

60mm diameter max.
10.6" maximum lengths (MSI 970 is best of the bunch and it fits)

 

[Tommy Marriner]

The room is very hot double brick walls no air con and dry Australian heat. Deppending on the time of day 38-45cel

 

[faalin]

Also I will be adding cards in sli not long after this loop goes in probably 970s but maybe 980s if i have the money and can justify it.

when buying a card do your research first to make sure they make a block for it. It easier to buy a block and find the card that fits it then to get the card and hope the make a block for it.

 

[Tommy Marriner]

I have a feeling that is a bit above my current skull level. That is beautiful system though jack.
I will have this case for a few years maybe down the track when I am more confident in my ability.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Acrylic tube is a piece of cake.

I wasn't expecting you to use rigid tube as you said you were using flex tube. All comments parts recommendations I made were in anticipation of using flexible tuning.

-You still want rads with top parts
-I still advise using two pumps in series rather than two separate loops.
-I still advise 140mm rads .. will allow SLI water cooling (my GPUs at 39C under Furmark CPU at 72C max core at 4.6 Ghz w/ 1.48 volts (under AVX loadings)

 

[Ellis_D]

Whatever you do, DO NOT buy a nickel-plated EK waterblock. I got Supremacy Evo about 4 months ago and the nickel platting is already flaking off.

Also, before buying your GPUs, make sure there are waterblocks available for the specific version you are buying. Reference cards have waterblocks and I believe more common custom versions like Gigabyte Windforce also have waterblocks available. There's nothing worse buying two GPUs only to find out waterblocks don't exist for them.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

EK will replace any block that is flaking .... I have 3 .... none flaking....I have other builds out there... post 2012, no flaking. I'd send it back.


They had made a change to their process some years ago which didn't work out too well .... the then switched to a more expensive electroless method and the problem has not appeared since.

hhttp://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/07/28/ek-introduces-electroless-nickel-plating/1

Anyone I knew who was affected (that is for flaking not discoloration) had their block replaced.

WB's generally always exist for the top two cards in the line. The Windforce is a great card but it will not fit in the Primo if using a reservoir.

 

[Ellis_D]

EK will replace any block that is flaking .... I have 3 .... none flaking....I have other builds out there... post 2012, no flaking. I'd send it back.


They had made a change to their process some years ago which didn't work out too well .... the then switched to a more expensive electroless method and the problem has not appeared since.

hhttp://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/07/28/ek-introduces-electroless-nickel-plating/1

Anyone I knew who was affected (that is for flaking not discoloration) had their block replaced.

WB's generally always exist for the top two cards in the line. The Windforce is a great card but it will not fit in the Primo if using a reservoir.

I've already tried to RMA this thing once because a bunch of the micro-channels are bent and mashed together (which just so happens to be where the platting is flaking off) but they refused, citing that it shouldn't affect performance. I'm not exactly thrilled with EK products at the moment.

Also, Windforce should work so long as a waterblock is on it. The PCB itself isn't 13" so without the heatpipes and fan shroud, it should be the standard length. Of course, don't quote me and make sure you do your research.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Where did you buy it ? Any time I have had an issue with any product from FCPU it was quickly and satisfactorily resolved. never had to go to EK.

The is a fit issues, as i said, **if** you are using a reservoir on the provided bracket in the Enthoo. Look at the picture above. There is 0.1" between the card edge and the reservoir and that's a 10.5" card.... the G1 is 12.28" long and as can be seen in the image below, ya not gonna pick up 1.75" losing the heat sink

 

[Ellis_D]

Where did you buy it ? Any time I have had an issue with any product from FCPU it was quickly and satisfactorily resolved. never had to go to EK.

The is a fit issues, as i said, **if** you are using a reservoir on the provided bracket in the Enthoo. Look at the picture above. There is 0.1" between the card edge and the reservoir and that's a 10.5" card.... the G1 is 12.28" long and as can be seen in the image below, ya not gonna pick up 1.75" losing the heat sink

http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=12538&admin=0a8fcaad6b03da6a6895d1ada2e171002a287bc1

You might lose 1.75"

And with the EK waterblock for it

And if that's not enough, You could opt out for a skinnier Res. I know both Phobya and Bitspower both make Tube Reservoirs that are more compact than others on the market.

And in regards to my Waterblock, I ordered it from Performance PCs. Since I went through EK first, I exceeded my window of opportunity of sending it back to them while waiting on a reply from EK. Nor was I really in the mood to spend additional shipping and handling charges getting that thing replaced since I would have been required to by their policy.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

I looked at both the Phobya and Bitspower units are 50mm and while they exist, I wouldn't use one ... but still you only pick up 5mm. I can't see a reason where I'd give up reservoir quality and size to get the G1 over the MSI which I'd rather have in the 1st place (EK will be releasing shortly). It's wasn't enough space when I did my 780 build in the Primo. Here's my test mock up ..... you will see here that you don't only have a length issue you have a thickness issue. The full length block hits the bracket

Of course the only way to tell is to get an actual measurement. Pisses me off that they do tear down reviews and no one bothers to publish this.

That's the EK near full length block for the G1 which uses the same blocks as the WF. This is what they also show in their cooling configurator

Short Block

Near Full Length Block

But the block length doesn't affect anything as far as the reservoir clearance, the PCB does. However, if definitely can NOT use the full length block in in SLI with the reservoir ... it hits the bracket.

I seem to have it in my head that a user on the OCN forum (Enthoo thread) said it didn't fit.....I wasn't about to go thru a 7500 + post thread tho.

As for PPC ... there's a half dozen threads here on the topic

http://www.overclock.net/t/1402150/performance-pc-customer-service
http://www.overclock.net/t/1293835/performance-pc-customer-service-is-a-joke
http://www.overclock.net/t/1432609/my-horror-story-with-performance-pcs-com-and-swiftech

 

[Ellis_D]

What's wrong with Phobya? I got one to mount in a spot with exactly 52mm of clearance and I can't see anything wrong with it. Maybe the aesthetics aren't as strong as an EK res but it still functions as a perfectly good reservoir.

But back to the issue of my waterblock, I still hold it against EK, not PPCs. I ordered close to $400 worth of parts from them and everything else was in good condition and my waterblock came sealed and untampered in its original box. If anyone should eat the cost of replacing EK's defective product, it should be EK, especially when it's under a two year warranty.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Phobya:

1. There were no multi-port tops and no drop tubes ... w/o that, no way to return coolant on the loop from the top which is a deal killer for me.

2. It's smaller ... thereby reducing it's effectiveness since it holds less coolant and therefore less of a thermal sink. With larrgher volumes, coolant temps stay more stable as larger volume takes longer for coolant to heat up / cool down. When coolant is subject to varying loads from the processor GPU / CPU with itty bitty reservoirs you often find yaself with a condition where fans / pump speed up / slow down chasing their tails so to speak....a 50mm holds 70% of the volume of a 60mm. No great shakes bit more is better.

3. Look and feel - holding it in my hand, it just looked like it's price tag .... almost half what everyone else charges.

4 Routing - With no ability to use the top as an inlet, tube routing would get a lot more complicated.

5. Customer support..... when I built my box, FCPU had few but limited Phobya options .... now almost none and no tube reservoirs. For my money, I need to know that I am going to get local support, preferably from within my state in case I have to take action, I don't wanna have to be in a position of threatening action against a company in Slovenia. As EKs largest vendor I know i can get that support from FCPU and I know that they can use their clout to get EK to get off the dime. I'll buy items from other vendors but when it comes to the bigger ticket items, I want to deal w/ a vendor who will fight my battles for me.

As for EK ..... Yes, as good as any company may or may not be, with so many water cooling products manufactured overseas, we are not in a very strong bargaining position. My EK CPU block I was lucky to notice had plastic washers of different thicknesses which would have resulted in a terrible mount. I called FCPU and they sent 4 new washers, ones they measured the thickness of to make sure were all the same and sent out via priority mail.

I have talked often with the EK rep on OCN and follow the threads there .... in every instance I can remember they promptly addressed a user's concern. Now I also read newegg reviews and see dozens of negative reviews where users claim "the cpu pins were bent in the box".... I have seen posts here were the poster says he broke something off the MoBo or bent the pin and asking if we think he can get away with sending it back under warranty. I have seen peeps say they used the Mayems Blitz Kit on their entire loop and now they are asking forum members for ideas on how to get EK to replace the block because the acid stripped the nickel

Not suggesting that the problem was in any way your fault, but you have to understand why the RMA group is oft skeptical. Timing is important here .... if the package is delivered on the 6th, you are gonna get a lot more response if you contact them on the 7th than the 17th.

My suggestion, tho late now would be to contact the EK rep on the EK Owners Club thread on OCN. From following that thread over the past year, customers seem to have a very high satisfaction rate. I haven't seen any plating failure posts in years .... questions about it yes and there's hundreds of old posts around .... but other than yours I can't remember any. Then again, I haven't been keeping up much there since October.