First Water Cooling Setup

[sardonicjester]

Background - Looking to build a WC loop for an older build that will be able to be re-used (mostly) in future builds.

Current Setup:

Case - CM HAF X
CPU - AMD 1100T @ 4.11 OC
CPU Cooler - CM V8
GPU - MSI R9 290 Rev 2.2 OC
MOBO - ASUS Sabertooth 990FX
PSU - Seasonic 1050 (Used to have a crossfire setup)

Here are the parts that I found that I think would work.
Please let me know if you see anything that is incorrect or if you have better recommendations.

I am planning on doing a single loop build, with connection to the CPU and 1 GPU.
I want it to be internal, with a push/pull fan setup. (So that means rad must be under 50mm width)

CPU Block: EK-Supremacy EVO - Nickel
Res: XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir
Pump: Swiftech MCP35X Pump
Rad fans: Rosewill Hyperborea 140mm Fan (Need 3)
Rad: Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper Radiator 420
GPU Block: EK MSI / Gigabyte Radeon R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Block Rev 2.0
GPU Plate: EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling RAM Backplate
GPU misc: EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Reinforcer
Tubing/Fittings: Don't think it really matters what I choose, but will be 1/2"in or 7/16"in and 3/4"od

Thanks in advance WC gurus.

 

[geofelt]

I am by no means a WC guru.
But... I might ask what do you wish to accomplish?
If you just want to experiment go for it.
If you are looking for better performance then
considering the cost of the WC components, you will be better off spending those funds on a faster Intel cpu in the first place.

 

[sardonicjester]

I am by no means a WC guru.
But... I might ask what do you wish to accomplish?
If you just want to experiment go for it.
If you are looking for better performance then
considering the cost of the WC components, you will be better off spending those funds on a faster Intel cpu in the first place.

Sorry, looks like I missed the part of why I am doing this. ha.

Combination of getting better performance out of the hardware I currently have (would like to see how much further I can push it) + getting better performance out of the hardware I may get in the future + would like to experiment with a form of cooling that I have never tried before.

I most likely will switch to intel at some point, but right now my AMD build meets my needs. (mostly)

 

[geofelt]

What is your budget?
How much do you estimate those parts will cost?
It is entirely possible that the water blocks for your current cpu and gpu will not be able to be used on a future build.

I can understand the desire to experiment and the challenges it brings.
"experience is what you get when things don't work out as planned"

I think you would be better served if your tried your OC experiments on a cpu chip that is intrinsically better.
Here is an older report which shows that the 1100T is not much better in gaming than a i3-2120.
The comparison was at stock, and you are considerably faster than that. perhaps by 25% But compared to an older intel stock 3350? The 3350 is also 25% better, and a newer gen haswell is faster yet at stock, and can also oc by 25%

p.s. Your sig needs updating to R9-290 from 6870.

 

[sardonicjester]

What is your budget?
How much do you estimate those parts will cost?
It is entirely possible that the water blocks for your current cpu and gpu will not be able to be used on a future build.

I think you would be better served if your tried your OC experiments on a cpu chip that is intrinsically better.
Here is an older report which shows that the 1100T is not much better in gaming than a i3-2120.
The comparison was at stock, and you are considerably faster than that. perhaps by 25% But compared to an older intel stock 3350? The 3350 is also 25% better, and a newer gen haswell is faster yet at stock, and can also oc by 25%

Budget is fairly open.
I don't want to spend an extreme amount (over $700), but enough to get me a better than average setup with the ability to re-use most of it.

Current total is ~$550 with shipping. (Without any fittings/tubing)

Spoiler

EK-Supremacy EVO - Nickel $79.99 http://www.frozencpu.com/products/19631/ex-blc-1444/EK_Supremacy_EVO_Universal_CPU_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Nickel_EK-Supremacy_EVO_-_Nickel.html#blank
XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir $34.50 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003LMNL8C/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3R2VS61L5ME3U&coliid=IQOA856UXRX2L
Swiftech MCP35X Pump $93.99 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004N6ST8W/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3R2VS61L5ME3U&coliid=I1TS084MNCYJEW
Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm Fan $17.31 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008G3OLRQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3R2VS61L5ME3U&coliid=IDSC8PJNCQNEB&psc=1
Rosewill Hyperborea 140mm Fan (Need 3) $32.97 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006CSKM20/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3R2VS61L5ME3U&coliid=I2UFYEU1LQU7GE
Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper Radiator 420 $114.95 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007R780GU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3R2VS61L5ME3U&coliid=I3H7UTH517VCML
EK MSI / Gigabyte Radeon R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Block Rev 2.0 $122.99 http://www.frozencpu.com/products/24127/ex-blc-1715/EK_MSI_Gigabyte_Radeon_R9-290X_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_Rev_20_-_Nickel_EK-FC_R9-290X_-_Nickel_Rev20.html?tl=g30c357s922
EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling RAM Backplate $30.99 http://www.frozencpu.com/products/21680/ex-blc-1569/EK_R9-290X_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_RAM_Backplate_-_Black_EK-FC_R9-290X_Backplate_-_Black.html
EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Reinforcer $7.49 http://www.frozencpu.com/products/23385/ex-blc-1686/EK_R9-290X_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Reinforcer_-_Black_EK-FC_R9-290X_Reinforcer_-_Black.html

The GPU block will not be able to be re-used if I upgrade. But I don't see the need to upgrade it for a while.
The CPU block can be re-used as long as I stay within the following sockets:
Intel LGA-775
Intel LGA-1150/1155/1156
Intel LGA-1366
Intel LGA-2011
AMD Sockets

(Which would be fine if I were to upgrade to lets say a i5-4690k)

Hmmm. You are really making me re-consider WC and just upgrading to intel. haha.
Wish I had unlimited funds to just do both.....

p.s. Your sig needs updating to R9-290 from 6870.

Yea, I haven't logged into TH for a quite a while before this thread. Mainly have been just trolling the news.

 

[geofelt]

Consider, that with your budget, you can have a i7-4790K and a Z97 motherboard.
With $200 left over. The 4790K runs at 4.0/4.4 turbo at stock.
Your cm V8 will allow you to overclock, at least as to safe vcore which will be 1.25-1.30.
That will be about 4.6 depending on your luck in the bin lottery.

I do not see a SSD in your rig. A 240gb ssd will make all the difference in the world for everyday usage. Files will open instantly, levels will load faster.
Samsung or intel are the most reliable brands.

 

[sardonicjester]

Consider, that with your budget, you can have a i7-4790K and a Z97 motherboard.
With $200 left over. The 4790K runs at 4.0/4.4 turbo at stock.
Your cm V8 will allow you to overclock, at least as to safe vcore which will be 1.25-1.30.
That will be about 4.6 depending on your luck in the bin lottery.

I do not see a SSD in your rig. A 240gb ssd will make all the difference in the world for everyday usage. Files will open instantly, levels will load faster.
Samsung or intel are the most reliable brands.

But that doesn't seem as much "fun" as a WC loop. haha.
I will definitely reconsider upgrading my hardware first before WC.

I am actually lacking a ssd right now. Was looking at the Crucial MX100 256GB for $112.99 shipped.
Do you think the Samsung 840 Evo 256GB for $128.99 shipped is a better deal?
(Looks like it is 20MB/s faster writes, but 10MB/s slower reads)

Thank you for your help and input. I greatly appreciate it and most likely will end up upgrading my hardware first.
(Is the i7-4790K really worth the premium over the i5-4690K?)

But for future use then, I would still like to see if what I have listed for WC components are sufficient for above average (<=10°C delta-T) performance of a single loop cpu/gpu setup.
From my "research" it should be sufficient, but I just want to make sure that it really is. (Since I have no experience in this area)

 

[Ellis_D]

The EK Supremacy EVO has pretty good compatibility right out of the box but I wouldn't be surprised if Intel goes with a new socket for Broadwell, which would cause the mounting bracket for existing Intel sockets to become obsolete. Fortunately, EK is also pretty good about selling dedicated mounting brackets so you won't be forced to buy a whole new CPU block.

From my personal experiences with the Phenom II x6 1100t, It's really not worth it to push it much further because the gains by today's standards just aren't that great, especially if you need to invest $500 in a watercooling loop to squeeze out 200-300mhz. You can upgrade to a Z97 platform with a high end i5 or even an i7 for that price or you could even upgrade to a an FX 8350 for less than $200 and have a much better system. Also, bare in mind that air-coolers and AIO water coolers are both viable options and are a fraction of the cost of a custom-built loop.

My personal philosophy on custom water loops is that they're more of a modding hobby than anything else. I recently upgraded from my 1100t to a i7 4790k and put it on water and spent close to $800 on the endeavor ($500 for the mobo+CPU and $300 for the loop). For that kind of money, I could have upgraded to x99 with a 5820k. Now that I have my water loop, I was only able to squeeze out an additional 100mhz from the 4790k from what I was using before with an AIO liquid cooler. While my system is much, much cooler, the CPU I have just won't stay stable with a higher overclock. If what I wanted was a more powerful system, I would have been better off investing in more powerful hardware rather than trying to push less-powerful hardware above its limit.

Now if you want to watercool your 1100t so you can thrash it and practice overclocking before upgrading to a system you wouldn't want to damage, then by all means, that's not a bad plan. Just be advised that there are cheaper cooling options out there that will still allow you to get decent overclocks. Also be aware that once you start pushing into the upper reaches of a CPU's performance, there are a lot of contingencies that could potentially prevent you from properly utilizing a large waterloop such as the quality of the silicone in your CPU. There are many other factors that go into a stable overclock besides temperatures.

 

[sardonicjester]

....

Thank you very much for the response.
That's crazy that you only got an additional 100mhz out of your cpu after WC.

I never expected that this thread was going to steer me away from WC. haha.
I guess I didn't realize how "behind the times" my system is. :/

 

[geofelt]

To answer your questions:

Really, all ssd's currently perform the same, or at least so close that you can't tell the difference without a synthetic benchmark.
Do not be much swayed by vendor synthetic SSD benchmarks.
They are done with apps that push the SSD to it's maximum using queue lengths of 30 or so.
Most desktop users will do one or two things at a time, so they will see queue lengths of one or two.
What really counts is the response times, particularly for small random I/O. That is what the os does mostly.
For that, the response times of current SSD's are remarkably similar. And quick. They will be 50X faster than a hard drive.
In sequential operations, they will be 2x faster than a hard drive, perhaps 3x if you have a sata3 interface.
Larger SSD's are preferable. They have more nand chips that can be accessed in parallel. Sort of an internal raid-0 if you will.
Also, a SSD will slow down as it approaches full. That is because it will have a harder time finding free nand blocks to do an update without a read/write operation.
My take is that intel and Samsung are more likely to be trouble free.
That is because they have control over the whole process of nand chips and controllers.
One plus for Samsung is that their software has a rapid mode option that can use ram to cache operations to their ssd's.
They also have a migration option that can clone your current "C" drive to their ssd. It has an option(which I have not used) to exclude such files as videos if your source is too large to fit on the new ssd.
Is the 850 pro or 840 pro worth it? Probably not, the main advantage is greater endurance. That is a moot point since 15 year endurance vs. 10 year means little. both will be obsolete by then.

Worth is something only YOU can determine.
For the extra $100 price premium of the 4790K you will get a better binned chip that runs at 4.0 stock.
You also get more l3 cache which I can't evaluate, and hyperthreading. Since few games will use more than 4 cores, that may not be that useful.
Still, if $100 is not a budget killer, I recommend the 4790K; if you don't, you will forever wonder if you should have.

 

[sardonicjester]

Sold.

Looks like I will be going with a ssd + i7-4790K + Maximus VII Hero for ~$700 instead of WCing my old system for the same price.

Thank you for pointing me in the direction of most performance for the dollar.

 

[geofelt]

 

[Ellis_D]

Thank you very much for the response.
That's crazy that you only got an additional 100mhz out of your cpu after WC.

I never expected that this thread was going to steer me away from WC. haha.
I guess I didn't realize how "behind the times" my system is. :/

To be fair, the system is running almost 20C colder @ 4.7ghz than it was at 4.6ghz thanks to the custom loop. If you care at all about system longevity, nothing kills processors like excessive heat so there is always that factor when considering watercooling your system.

 

[geofelt]

I think it is not so much high heat as it is high voltage that is damaging.
Which comes first?? voltage or heat?
When you oc, the voltage needs to increase to sustain the higher multiplier. Once you get past 1.30v vcore, the heat increases rapidly.
Yes, exotic cooling can keep your temps down, but you still are running at high voltage.
That is my reasoning for suggesting that a decent air cooler is all you need for a safe OC.
After all, how much higher than stock 4.0 do you really need for good gaming?

 

[Rhinofart]

Background - Looking to build a WC loop for an older build that will be able to be re-used (mostly) in future builds.

Current Setup:

Case - CM HAF X
CPU - AMD 1100T @ 4.11 OC
CPU Cooler - CM V8
GPU - MSI R9 290 Rev 2.2 OC
MOBO - ASUS Sabertooth 990FX
PSU - Seasonic 1050 (Used to have a crossfire setup)

Here are the parts that I found that I think would work.
Please let me know if you see anything that is incorrect or if you have better recommendations.

I am planning on doing a single loop build, with connection to the CPU and 1 GPU.
I want it to be internal, with a push/pull fan setup. (So that means rad must be under 50mm width)

CPU Block: EK-Supremacy EVO - Nickel
Res: XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir
Pump: Swiftech MCP35X Pump
Rad fans: Rosewill Hyperborea 140mm Fan (Need 3)
Rad: Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper Radiator 420
GPU Block: EK MSI / Gigabyte Radeon R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Block Rev 2.0
GPU Plate: EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling RAM Backplate
GPU misc: EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Reinforcer
Tubing/Fittings: Don't think it really matters what I choose, but will be 1/2"in or 7/16"in and 3/4"od

Thanks in advance WC gurus.

I've been watercooling computers sinc 2001, so I may have a bit of experience with this. You state that you wanted it all internal? Push/Pull fan configuation? For a full Push/Pull config you would need 6 fans not 3. After looking at that case, it looks like you would be having a top mount RAD, and have your fans below the Radiator correct? Where is this case going to be located? Will it be under your desk, or on top? Will there be enough space above and behind for ventalation? The reason I'm asking is you could have your fans situated a couple ways on the RAD. Traditionaly you would suck cool air in through the RAD on the top, and orient your back fan as an exhaust. Another thing you could do is reverse those. Have the back fan suck air in through the back / and others on the front, and have your fans attached to the RAD blow the air out through the RAD on top. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it works well. It also generates a more fluid airflow through your case which can help cool other components such as RAM, Northbridge Heatsinks, etc.

I built a system for a customer in a rather large Lian-Li case where they didn't want the radiator to be visible at all. I wound up mounting the radiator inside the top half of the case, pulling cool air through the top back, through the rad (I created some ducting out of acrylic), over the motherboard / RAM / Chipsets, and exhausting out the front of the case. The whole setup was a bit louder than I personaly like, but based on their requirements this fit the bill perfectly. He had an Intel 980x (Hexacore Extreme processor) 3.33 stock running at 4.5, and an XFX R9 290x Core edition. After benchmarking for 2 hours straight the CPU temp maxed out at 58 C and it was all a single loop as well. So moral of the story, think of everything in a big picture as to how you want it to look, function, and also take into account the environment where the case will be. Will there be enough space around and of the sides of the case for good airflow? Do I mind if the warm exhaust air comes out the bottom of my PC and blow gently across my desk. (Like my oldschool Lian Li PC65 case does right now)

Hope it helps you, and enjoy the watercooling adventure!! I'll never go back to air!!!

 

[Rhinofart]

Background - Looking to build a WC loop for an older build that will be able to be re-used (mostly) in future builds.

Current Setup:

Case - CM HAF X
CPU - AMD 1100T @ 4.11 OC
CPU Cooler - CM V8
GPU - MSI R9 290 Rev 2.2 OC
MOBO - ASUS Sabertooth 990FX
PSU - Seasonic 1050 (Used to have a crossfire setup)

Here are the parts that I found that I think would work.
Please let me know if you see anything that is incorrect or if you have better recommendations.

I am planning on doing a single loop build, with connection to the CPU and 1 GPU.
I want it to be internal, with a push/pull fan setup. (So that means rad must be under 50mm width)

CPU Block: EK-Supremacy EVO - Nickel
Res: XSPC 5.25" Bay Reservoir
Pump: Swiftech MCP35X Pump
Rad fans: Rosewill Hyperborea 140mm Fan (Need 3)
Rad: Alphacool NexXxoS XT45 Full Copper Radiator 420
GPU Block: EK MSI / Gigabyte Radeon R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Block Rev 2.0
GPU Plate: EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling RAM Backplate
GPU misc: EK R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Reinforcer
Tubing/Fittings: Don't think it really matters what I choose, but will be 1/2"in or 7/16"in and 3/4"od

Thanks in advance WC gurus.

I've been watercooling computers sinc 2001, so I may have a bit of experience with this. You state that you wanted it all internal? Push/Pull fan configuation? For a full Push/Pull config you would need 6 fans not 3. After looking at that case, it looks like you would be having a top mount RAD, and have your fans below the Radiator correct? Where is this case going to be located? Will it be under your desk, or on top? Will there be enough space above and behind for ventalation? The reason I'm asking is you could have your fans situated a couple ways on the RAD. Traditionaly you would suck cool air in through the RAD on the top, and orient your back fan as an exhaust. Another thing you could do is reverse those. Have the back fan suck air in through the back / and others on the front, and have your fans attached to the RAD blow the air out through the RAD on top. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it works well. It also generates a more fluid airflow through your case which can help cool other components such as RAM, Northbridge Heatsinks, etc.

I built a system for a customer in a rather large Lian-Li case where they didn't want the radiator to be visible at all. I wound up mounting the radiator inside the top half of the case, pulling cool air through the top back, through the rad (I created some ducting out of acrylic), over the motherboard / RAM / Chipsets, and exhausting out the front of the case. The whole setup was a bit louder than I personaly like, but based on their requirements this fit the bill perfectly. He had an Intel 980x (Hexacore Extreme processor) 3.33 stock running at 4.5, and an XFX R9 290x Core edition. After benchmarking for 2 hours straight the CPU temp maxed out at 58 C and it was all a single loop as well. So moral of the story, think of everything in a big picture as to how you want it to look, function, and also take into account the environment where the case will be. Will there be enough space around and of the sides of the case for good airflow? Do I mind if the warm exhaust air comes out the bottom of my PC and blow gently across my desk. (Like my oldschool Lian Li PC65 case does right now)

Hope it helps you, and enjoy the watercooling adventure!! I'll never go back to air!!!

 

[Ellis_D]

I think it is not so much high heat as it is high voltage that is damaging.
Which comes first?? voltage or heat?
When you oc, the voltage needs to increase to sustain the higher multiplier. Once you get past 1.30v vcore, the heat increases rapidly.
Yes, exotic cooling can keep your temps down, but you still are running at high voltage.
That is my reasoning for suggesting that a decent air cooler is all you need for a safe OC.
After all, how much higher than stock 4.0 do you really need for good gaming?

I still can't wrap my mind around the AMD FX 9590BE with its stock vcore of 1.5v

 

[welshy46]

the EK MSI / Gigabyte Radeon R9-290X VGA Liquid Cooling Block Rev 2.0 will not fit the 2.2. I know you decided to put your into new hardware, props for that, but the noise of those fans will soon get old and you'll want to water cool it. Up till now there is no block to fit that revision of the 290x. I've been trying to find one after a buying this card following an untimely passing of my rev 1 290x. i have the rev 1 EK water block from it, which now makes a nice ornament.