Flipping through the DCIJUDGE-L archives

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, All!
Thanks to some earlier post today, I found a link to DCIJUDGE-L archive
(didn't even know it's open for general populace) and was surprised to
see *judges* there having doubts about Grafted Wargear attached to a
temporarily animated creature case (whether that permanent is destroyed
when it stops being a creature).

Isn't the following rule applicable in this case?

202.2a If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as "this
[something]" to identify an object, where [something] is a category or
characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it
isn't the appropriate category or characteristic at the time.

Grafted Wargear
{3}
Artifact -- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +3/+2.
Whenever Grafted Wargear becomes unattached from a creature, sacrifice
that creature.
Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
sorcery.)

This thing kills even Darksteel Brute!

Can't kill opponent's creatures with this and Magnetic Theft, though: it
triggers when you attach it back to one of your guys, but you can't
sacrifice what you don't control...

Regards,
Arkady.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Arkady Zilberberg" <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> writes:
> Hello, All!
> Thanks to some earlier post today, I found a link to DCIJUDGE-L archive
> (didn't even know it's open for general populace)

It's not very publicized, but it is linked from the Archives section
of the Judge section of the DCI's web site I think.

> and was surprised to see *judges* there having doubts about Grafted
> Wargear attached to a temporarily animated creature case (whether
> that permanent is destroyed when it stops being a creature).

Well, it isn't destroyed, regardless. It will get sacrificed.

> Isn't the following rule applicable in this case?
>
> 202.2a If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as "this
> [something]" to identify an object, where [something] is a category or
> characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it
> isn't the appropriate category or characteristic at the time.
>
> Grafted Wargear
> {3}
> Artifact -- Equipment
> Equipped creature gets +3/+2.
> Whenever Grafted Wargear becomes unattached from a creature, sacrifice
> that creature.
> Equip {0} ({0}: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a
> sorcery.)

That rule covers the "sacrifice that creature" part, yes. The debate
(I think) was mostly over the trigger condition (unattached from a
creature)... If it's getting unattached from a non-creature, then it
seems like the trigger condition might not occur, if you read it that
way.

--
Peter C.
"Well, yeah, if you want to look at it from a purely *correct* point
of view."
-- Jessi

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks to some earlier post today, I found a link to DCIJUDGE-L archive
>(didn't even know it's open for general populace) and was surprised to
>see *judges* there having doubts about Grafted Wargear attached to a
>temporarily animated creature case (whether that permanent is destroyed
>when it stops being a creature).

It's being discussed. What is clear is that -as worded- the Wargear won't
trigger if a creature it's on stops being a creature... as in that case it
will become attached only after the permanent's not a creature any more.

>Isn't the following rule applicable in this case?
>
>202.2a If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as "this
>[something]" to identify an object, where [something] is a category or
>characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it
>isn't the appropriate category or characteristic at the time.

That's what you use to determine that if it DOES trigger, it will make you
sacrifice 'that creature' if you can. That's not really in question here; it's
the trigger condition that's causing discussion...

>Can't kill opponent's creatures with this and Magnetic Theft, though: it
>triggers when you attach it back to one of your guys, but you can't
>sacrifice what you don't control...

Exactly.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, David!
You wrote on 27 May 2004 14:05:00 -0400:

DD> It's being discussed. What is clear is that -as worded- the
DD> Wargear won't trigger if a creature it's on stops being a
creature...

Yes, I actually realized that after posting the message. So it's the
case of description not matching intentions, isn't it? (Like "letter vs.
spirit of the law)

On the other hand, Wargear is great on self-bouncers like Viashino
Sandstalker and Quicksilver Behemoth - when it becomes unattached,
there's nothing to sacrifice already

Regards,
Arkady.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrncbc7j4.imo.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Thanks to some earlier post today, I found a link to DCIJUDGE-L archive
> >(didn't even know it's open for general populace) and was surprised to
> >see *judges* there having doubts about Grafted Wargear attached to a
> >temporarily animated creature case (whether that permanent is destroyed
> >when it stops being a creature).
>
> It's being discussed. What is clear is that -as worded- the Wargear won't
> trigger if a creature it's on stops being a creature... as in that case it
> will become attached only after the permanent's not a creature any more.
>

Except that if you look at the definition of "unattached" from the June 1
version of the CR, it says "an equipment becomes unattached if it was
attached to a creature and then is not".

That actually happens when the animated creature deanimates, not when the
equipment falls off the noncreature permanent as an SBE a moment later. At
that point it gets "unattached from a creature" and will thus trigger. Due
to rule 202.2a the permanent-that-used-to-be-a-creature will then have to be
sacrificed.