forget ddr

[wysecracker]

i've been planning on making ddr system for months now, waiting for it to mature, but i don't think i want to wait any longer (price ain't going down either). so i'm planning on a system with amd t-bird around 1.1G ('c' version?). is getting a pc-133 system now worth it? any suggestion for the motherboard?

 

[Guest]

I personally think it would be worth it to go with DDR...I don't even think the 165$ for the 128 is that bad right now...but hey...Personally, I figure a DDR mobo will also be better for the longterm.

=Quantum
AO Admin
The Dr.Twister Network
http://ao.drtwister.com

 

[wysecracker]

should i just get K7Master-S or wait just a little bit more (perhaps for revised asus a7m266 or something)

BTW I too have about $2000 to build a system, it'll be my first time building all by myself

 

[stable]

In our minds here, the following sums up it up.

A7V133 - Puma Sneaker. Built for speed on a budget, fast and getting faster all the time, reliable, and you don't have to bend over all the way to get into it.
A7M266 - Ishtar. Famous names, but torture and death await after a long walk in the desert with no end in sight and no help to be found.
K7Master-S - Arnold Schwarzenegger. Follows nobody, blows away competition, well built and reliable, also great at crunching big things with ease.

Steve Benoit

Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by stable on 02/21/01 01:27 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[bw37]

Stable, your support of this board (K7 Master) is reassuring, but where do I find one, or when?

the more I learn, the less I'm sure I know...

 

[mbaha]

Personally I don't feel that DDR is worth the extra $250+ system cost and the performance jump has been over exaggerated. I would go with a ASUS A7V133 and spend the extra cash a cdrw or better video card or bigger monitor ect. instead of getting the latest and a little better mb while only having enough cash for a 8meg video card. Unless you have tons of cash then get the K7Master but if don’t check out the a7v133.*
mbaha

*note personal opinion used

 

[Booky]

If you don't need the SCSI then the K7 Master is a little cheaper, but if you have to have the SCSI then the K7 Master-S is for you. I believe I seen the K7 Master for $185 but not positive and I am pretty sure the K7 Master-S is around $235. stable what you got for prices?

Someday I will stop asking all the questions!

 

[Booky]

For one, the price difference for the K7 Master(without SCSI) is not much from the A7V133. The performance difference hasn't been exagerated it is just that its only visable in high memery applications. If DDR wasn't better than SD then why do all of the best vidio cards use DDR? DDR will also be a better bet at upgrading in the future. The only reason I could see someone buying a SD board would be a fine budget, (one that couldn't spare $200).

Someday I will stop asking all the questions!

 

[mbaha]

(256MB PC2100 266MHZ DDR DIMM $303.00)-
(PC133 256MB SDRAM DIMM $80.00) = $223

(K7T Master (MS6347) $ 238)- (ASUS A7V133 $145.00) = $93
$223+ $93= $316*

Your right I was wrong the DDR system would cost around $316 more. I believe I said yes DDR is cool but not if don’t have the cash. I was just giving wysecracker another option besides the MHZ junky DDR choice.
Mbaha

*real facts not opinion

 

[Guest]

Lets not forget...The Master and DDR Ram will have a longer upgrade life and lasting life...it's a matter of if you have the extra cash....and how long you want your new computer.

=Quantum
AO Admin
The Dr.Twister Network
http://ao.drtwister.com

 

[bw37]

Careful what you're pricing. I can't find a K7 Master (MS-6341 w/SCSI) on Pricewatch. I CAN find K7T Master (MS-6347) on Pricewatch. The difference is SDR vs. DDR memory. Steve's (Stable) talking about the DDR versions, we're pricing the SDR versions so mbaha's points are even more valid. That's exactly what I'm struggling with. I tend to keep one system for quite a few years, but even the SDR versions are going to seem like lightning compared to my old 200mhz P5. But I'm thinking that memory bandwidth may be important to me over the next few years (video editing). But I just can't bring myself to spend all that money for the memory and "C" Athlon, knowing that in 6 months they might cost half what they do today. Maybe I'll just have to wait.

the more I learn, the less I'm sure I know...

 

[Guest]

I just spoke (on the phone) to MSI Sales and Marketing and the K7 Master/Master-s (MS-6341) is not yet available for retail. She told me that it should be coming out in the middle or end of March (or within a month or so). That would explain why it can't be found yet!

 

[bw37]

:lol: Thanks! I saw your post on the other thread just after I submitted mine.

the more I learn, the less I'm sure I know...

 

[stable]

I have K7Master-S motherboards now and a new shipment coming in next week. My AMD guy told me to expect the Boxed CPUs in about 2 weeks and I have DDR 2100 from Mushkin and Corsair.

Steve Benoit


Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'

 

[Guest]

How much are the K7 Master S & K7 Master going for?

 

[dhlucke]

So....if I'm upgrading around this summer, is DDR what I should be looking at? IS DDR GOING TO BE IT? I guess I'm worried that DDR isn't going to make it and won't be very long term, but I'm reasured by all the videocards today.

Maybe by then Asus will have gotten their act together...

 

[Booky]

I was pricing the K7 master(6341) without the SCSI, thats the difference between the K7 Master and the K7 master-s. Never did I even mention the K7T Master, that is a totally different board. The K7 Master and K7 Master-S are identicle all except the Master-S has onboard SCSI makeing it more expensive. Hope this clear it up for you, oh and I haven't found it on pricewatch but am guessing around $185 for the K7 Master. stable what is your price for the MS-6341 without onboard SCSI?

Someday I will stop asking all the questions!

 

[Crashman]

Don't forget the Iwill KA266, with the ALi MAGiK 1 chipset!

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Guest]

Let's also not forget that the $300 will be able to buy most of his next system.......should he need one anytime soon. Which he won't. If this is his first system, I recommend he buys the 133A board and DO IT. Besides, there is no guarantee that either AMD OR Intel will be pushing DDR a year or more from now. But hey, that SDRAM has been around for nearly four years and counting.........

SCSI will be a total waste of your money, and unless you are a proficient system builder, you don't want to mess with SCSI. The expense of the drives could end up making that system $600 more instead of just $300.

You can wait, and wait, and wait. The prices never stop falling and there will always be a product that comes out tomorrow that you will wish you'd have purchased. If you have the money, the time, and the desire, DO IT NOW.

 

[Sumadin]

I agree
You gotta draw the line somewhere.
I was ready to purchase an A7V or K7T when it looked like all the KT133 boards were out.
Then came DDR.
I watched and waited for a bit.
I figured it was to expensive and too early in its development for me.
Plus I was starting to get anxious on getting the ball rolling.
BINGO! KT133A comes out.
This is where I decided to draw the line.
Its a matured chipset. It's upgradeable enough for me.
I figure I can start with 800MHz cpu, then when prices fall on the better cpu's I can upgrade.
SDRAM prices are falling at a nice pace.
I'm spending more than I originally figured on, but I'm getting more too.
I'm spreading out the purchase of my components over a one month span. Got most of them now.
This way I can live with the slightly more expensive upgrade
and spread out the pain(paying).
And the kids still get to eat!


<font color=red>Sumadin</font color=red>


<font color=blue>"A mind is a terrible thing"</font color=blue>

 

[Booky]

Did you see the review and benchmarks for that chipset and board? They sucked bigtime, didn't even seem to use the DDR what so ever. The PC133 was just as fast. Unless you think toms benchmark was not fair for some reason.

Someday I will stop asking all the questions!

 

[Booky]

Dont bet on DDR not sticking around. Its been in vidio cards for 2 years now and major dealers like Compaq are setting up DDR systems. Say what you want to hear but DDR is here to stay.

Someday I will stop asking all the questions!

 

[Crashman]

I believe Tom mentioned that it was an early board revision with early driver revisions and early bios revision. So it would not be uncommon for it to run a little slower in the test than later production versions with later bios revisions and later drivers. Besisdes, ALi has a better reputation for stability, compatability, and reliability in the real world.

Suicide is painless...........

 

[Booky]

Ok that makes sense, maybe I should just shut up :-(). I got lots to learn still, I try to help too much and maybe im just makeing things worse.

Someday I will stop asking all the questions!

 

[stable]

I went back to the original question and never saw any mention of price. There are several issues that come to mind from all of the follow up.

1) DDR-RAM should be considered in the baby stage, NOT the infant stage. There have already been revisions in the design and it has been in use on video for over 6 months now so we are seeing some major benefits of time realized.

2) While DDR-RAM is more expensive than SDRAM, it is probably the design of the future. DDR-RAM IS the replacement of SDRAM (directly from the mouths of the SDRAM manufacturers). In their minds, this is the product that will (hopefully) get rid of RAMBUS once and for all. It is automatic that once boards using DDR go into high production, the price will drop. You have to keep in mind, presently, these folks are trying to re-coup their expense of developing the product. Once mass volumes are in full swing, the competition will grow and prices will come down. The DDR RAM video card people can attest to this as have you looked at THEIR prices lately? Half of what they were only 6 months ago, a direct result of price reductions of the DDR chips.

3) DDR RAM will help the 'C' Athlon reach it's potential. Those of you that will want one of these puppies should visit AMD's web site for the detailed explanation of the CORE design. DDR is important to AMD and is the basis for (most) AMD future designs.

As for the K7Master-S... Yes, this board has SCSI! And that's one of the BIG things that make it great! Its main advantage is the SCSI chip is 64-bit and NOT 32-bit which would be a huge difference if you wanted to add SCSI later (go ahead and just try to get the whole 64-bit card to fit into one of those 32-bit slots). Additionally, should you look at both (having a card or using the onboard) side by side you will discover that WOW.. this is one hell of a deal for getting SCSI ESPECIALLY with its' legacy SCSI support. Finally, being integrated removes 99% of the hassles associated with SCSI which are interrupt control, device settings, device initial setup and SCSI BIOS, all things that are taken care of FOR YOU AUTOMATICALLY or performed much easier by having on-board SCSI.

Finally, AMD has told distributors that the new CPUs will be the same price as current 200MHz CPUs so you know that the prices on that stock will drop considerably in the near future, making a 266MHz DDR-RAM based system look more an more appealing. In the big picture, what you are looking at around $300-$350 more for a 266MHz DDR-RAM based system INITIALLY (over let's say an A7V133 with Corsair PC133 CAS2 RAM) for a fairly good improvement in performance. In as little as 2 months, this should become much more competitive, let's say $150-$250 more. Now you just have to ask yourself, "Is it worth it TO ME?"

Steve Benoit

Stable Technologies
'The way IT should be!'