News Forget PS5: PCs With RTX 2070 Super Can Handle Unreal Engine 5 Demo

Thretosix

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There's no doubt that both consoles are doing a great job for the cost. The idea that the technology crushes a PC's performance was laughable. The statement in the video seemed nothing more than a paid promotion. Many people won't look to see if things are true or not. The RTX 2070 is a midrange card for the somewhat current / last generation of GPU's, NVME M.2's are pretty easy to come by. The new AMD Navi GPU's and Nvidia 3000 series will be way ahead of the upcoming consoles. For a price though, which is usually the case for high end PC gaming. Only people they were fooling are people who just hear what they want to hear instead of accepting reality. I don't get the attacks these days. Everyone is going to win this generation regardless of platform.
 
Reactions: Kridian
May 19, 2020
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"You need a nvme ssd, ps5 also has a ssd"
There currently isn't a ssd on the market as fast as the PS5 ssd, so a gaming pc would cut it. You would be able to run this demo, as you would be able to stream data fast enough. The PS5 would even beat a 2080ti in that remark. The future will be in super fast ssd's, gaming pcs will lag behind for a while.
 

GenericUser

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"You need a nvme ssd, ps5 also has a ssd"
There currently isn't a ssd on the market as fast as the PS5 ssd, so a gaming pc would cut it. You would be able to run this demo, as you would be able to stream data fast enough. The PS5 would even beat a 2080ti in that remark. The future will be in super fast ssd's, gaming pcs will lag behind for a while.
It's not that the SSD in the PS5 is necessarily "faster" than a typical desktop PC. The speed primarily comes from a custom controller made for the console that lets developers use some tricks not available on a PC because of said custom hardware. Otherwise, it's more or less the same as any comparable one you could buy for a desktop computer.
 
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Of coarse it can run on a 2070. It's built to scale!!!! UE5 can also run off a smartphone. But for all the extra goodies, like the 3D audio, and SSD specifically, nothing touching the PS5. We BARELY getting simple NVMe 4.0 Drives in. So everything have to "load" into memory.
 
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There is no doubt that PC can run the demo equal or faster than a PS5. This is nothing new to me.

As to why the SSD is faster on the console, I believe it could be due to,
  1. Lighter OS for console - This translates to less disk activities on consoles, unlike on Windows 10
  2. Ram caching - Just my speculation here - SSDs nowadays have very high sequential read/write speed, but this does not translate to a significant improvement as we can see in our day to day PC usage. Since this is a custom design SSD for console, there could be a chance they may have utilized some level of RAM caching considering its got 16GB of GDDR6 to spare.
I doubt any customized software can do miracles with the current SSD technology. If so, we should have seen them in the retail market as well.
 
Apr 27, 2020
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There is no doubt that PC can run the demo equal or faster than a PS5. This is nothing new to me.

As to why the SSD is faster on the console, I believe it could be due to,
  1. Lighter OS for console - This translates to less disk activities on consoles, unlike on Windows 10
  2. Ram caching - Just my speculation here - SSDs nowadays have very high sequential read/write speed, but this does not translate to a significant improvement as we can see in our day to day PC usage. Since this is a custom design SSD for console, there could be a chance they may have utilized some level of RAM caching considering its got 16GB of GDDR6 to spare.
I doubt any customized software can do miracles with the current SSD technology. If so, we should have seen them in the retail market as well.

Isn't just the lighter OS. it is the optimization they did from the 12 channels, to the six prioritization levels, to the I/O and it's coprocessors that is specifically made for the system. PCIe 4.0 WILL be compatible with the PS5, but it has to run at the speed, and the SoC will have to do some stuff to make sure that it run close to the PS5's onboard SSD.

My take though, next year someone will make, if not work with Sony themselves, will make an SSD like the PS5's.

And you 100% right. Current SSD tech, especially on PCIe 3.0 won't be enough to do it.


But the UE5 will run on everything. It is even in movies. So don't know why people mad. There will be stuff like the PS5 and the XSX where it will take advantage of the dedicated hardware that will gibe it a slight edge.

But at the end of the day, how good that game is. The tech is there. It won't matter when we press play!
 

russell_john

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Mar 25, 2018
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"You need a nvme ssd, ps5 also has a ssd"
There currently isn't a ssd on the market as fast as the PS5 ssd, so a gaming pc would cut it. You would be able to run this demo, as you would be able to stream data fast enough. The PS5 would even beat a 2080ti in that remark. The future will be in super fast ssd's, gaming pcs will lag behind for a while.
Actually there are already PCIe 4.0 SSD drives on the market that are just as fast .... The PS5 has a compression chip but it's not going to be utilized properly for at least 2 years because of backwards compatibility with the PS4 that all games are going to have for at least the next two years until game developers drop support for the PS4 ..... By that time the PC will have even faster SSDs and mostly likely there will be Gaming SSD's with a similar compression chip built-in that will exceed the performance of the PS5's SSD compression tech

Game consoles will always be hampered by two things, the need for backwards compatibility for obsolete hardware for the 1st two years and the ridiculously long 7 year Development Cycle which makes backwards compatibility even worse because 7 year old technology in the 21st century is actually obsolete

Meanwhile PC technology is on a 1-2 year development cycle and we'll get 4 upgrades or more in the same time period you get just 1 .... It's always going to win because of that unless Sony shortens their Development Cycle by at least half .... Before the PS5 even releases we'll have the next gen CPUs (Zen 3) and next gen GPUs (Ampere) that will smoke the PS5's Zen 2 and RDNA2 CPU/GPU combo and by the time backwards compatibility with the PS4 is dropped we'll likely have Zen 4 and another new generation of GPUs

And we'll still have the real icing on the cake .... Game Mods that can't be done on consoles ... Witcher 3 on a PS5 is still going to look like Witcher 3 on a PS 4 while my current iteration on PC looks as good as any game released in 2019 and easily does 1440p @60 FPS
 
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Actually there are already PCIe 4.0 SSD drives on the market that are just as fast .... The PS5 has a compression chip but it's not going to be utilized properly for at least 2 years because of backwards compatibility with the PS4 that all games are going to have for at least the next two years until game developers drop support for the PS4 ..... By that time the PC will have even faster SSDs and mostly likely there will be Gaming SSD's with a similar compression chip built-in that will exceed the performance of the PS5's SSD compression tech

Game consoles will always be hampered by two things, the need for backwards compatibility for obsolete hardware and the ridiculously long 7 year Development Cycle which makes backwards compatibility even worse because 7 year old technology in the 21st century is actually obsolete

Meanwhile PC technology is on a 1-2 year development cycle and we'll get 4 upgrades or more in the same time period you get just 1 .... It's always going to win because of that unless Sony shortens their Development Cycle by at least half .... Before the PS5 even releases we'll have the next gen CPUs (Zen 3) and next gen GPUs (Ampere) that will smoke the PS5's Zen2 and RDNA2 CPU/GPU combo
The SSD number of 5.5Gbps is a RAW number and doesn't use the compression chip. Though the Kranken formatting will take full advantage of it. The PS5 will be able in some cases be able to do up to 22Gbps thru compression, though they gave a more realistic number of 10Gbps.

And speed isn't the only thing the PS5 will be concerned with.
 

russell_john

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The SSD number of 5.5Gbps is a RAW number and doesn't use the compression chip. Though the Kranken formatting will take full advantage of it. The PS5 will be able in some cases be able to do up to 22Gbps thru compression, though they gave a more realistic number of 10Gbps.

And speed isn't the only thing the PS5 will be concerned with.

The problem is and I already mentioned this it can't be fully utilized and still have backwards comparability with the PS4 .... It will only work at it's full potential for games and game engines that are PS5 only ..... And you won't be seeing those for a couple more years and PC's will have caught up and exceeded that tech by then ..... The only reason we aren't seeing this compression tech on PCs now is there aren't any game to use it but a year from now there will be and you'll see the same compression technology on PC PCIe 4.0 SSDs especially if they can leverage it for use in servers which is very likely especially when combined with Nvidia's Ampere technology which is for more than just gaming GPUs but also for parallel processing in servers and they are also going to want that high throughput and even more from their SSDs
 
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dhz

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The only reason we aren't seeing this compression tech on PCs now is there aren't any game to use it but a year from now there will be and you'll see the same compression technology on PC PCIe 4.0 SSDs especially if they can leverage it for use in servers which is very likely especially when combined with Nvidia's Ampere technology which is for more than just gaming GPUs but also for parallel processing in servers and they are also going to want that high throughput and even more from their SSDs
what
tons of games use kraken. why do you think sony picked it?

http://www.radgametools.com/oodle.htm

https://cbloomrants.blogspot.com/2018/03/oodle-data-compression-integration-for.html
 

russell_john

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The problem is and I already mentioned this it can't be fully utilized and still have backwards comparability with the PS4 .... It will only work at it's full potential for games that are PS5 only ..... And you won't be seeing those for a couple more years and PC's will have caught up and exceeded that tech by then ..... The only reason we aren't seeing this compression tech on PCs now is there aren't any game to use it but a year from now there will be and you'll see the same compression technology on PC PCIe 4.0 SSDs especially if they can leverage it for use in servers which is very likely especially when combined with Nvidia's Ampere technology which is for more than just gaming GPUs but also for parallel processing in servers
what
tons of games use kraken. why do you think sony picked it?

http://www.radgametools.com/oodle.htm
Only on the server side ... Which actually makes my case that it's also going to be available soon for PCs .... Most SSD's already use some form of compression and obviously it's not at all expensive to implement or you wouldn't see it in consumer grade devices like the PS5 .... The reason it's not on PCs now is there isn't a market for it yet but that's going to change in the near future and it won't be special to the PS5 for long and you still have the backwards compatibility for obsolete hardware issue to deal with for the next couple of years that will keep it from being utilized by which time there will be a market for it on PCs and it will be widely available

It's nothing special really, that's just Marketing Hype
 
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Only on the server side ... Which actually makes my case that it's also going to be available soon for PCs .... Most SSD's already use some form of compression and obviously it's not at all expensive to implement or you wouldn't see it in consumer grade devices like the PS5 .... The reason it's not on PCs now is there isn't a market for it yet but that's going to change in the near future and it won't be special to the PS5 for long and you still have the backwards compatibility for obsolete hardware issue to deal with for the next couple of years that will keep it from being utilized by which time there will be a market for it on PCs and it will be widely available

It's nothing special really, that's just Marketing Hype
The problem with your assumption that "pcs will have the same speed or more" is that only 1% of the PCs will have that same speed, while all PS5s will. So games for PC will probably not run that well for a long time unless game engines are optimised for the 1% (which can happen, but will take a while). Even today you have computers being sold with disk drives, so yeah, not marketing, but I'm sure PS5 and Xbox having fast SSDs will push PCs to catch up.

But my second point is:
The graphics card mentioned goes for around 500 - 600$. An SSD comparable with the PS5s will be at least 200$ more. You'll probably be able to buy 2 PS5s juts for the price of these components on the PC, not even counting with RAM, motherboard and whatever ticks your gaming fancy. After you're finished, wouldn't be surprised the equivalent PC being 3 times as expensive as the console (that will most likely be subsidised by Sony).

The demo is awesome, and I'm sure anyone will be able to build a device with the same specs as the PS5 eventually (even though there is a lot of magic in the tighter integration of RAM with the SSD that is nowhere that I have see on the PC side), but it will cost a LOT more, and that has been the point of this, since the beginning. Affordable gaming for people that don't want to tinker and play with their parts. There is something really awesome in getting home from work and resuming my game from my sleeping console from exactly where I was 100% of the time.
 
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If a 2070 can run it no doubt a GTX 1080 can run it. Don't believe the Unreal/PS 5 hype
Well, to be more precise, they said a "2070 SUPER", which typically performs more on par with a 1080 Ti, or around 30% faster than a regular 1080. Even a 2060 SUPER tends to outperform a 1080. The compute performance of the 10-series cards is also lower than that found in the 20-series and AMD's offerings, so performance might even be a bit lower due to that. And that's assuming the demo wasn't utilizing newer hardware features for things like variable rate shading and raytracing, which the new consoles and the 20-series cards support, but not the GTX 1080.

I do suspect the demo would run on a 1080, but it may need to run at a lower resolution. The demo was apparently running at a dynamic resolution usually close to 1440p, and presumably at 30fps. So, maybe a GTX 1080 could get 30fps at 1080p with those settings? : P
 

Uniblab

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"You need a nvme ssd, ps5 also has a ssd"
There currently isn't a ssd on the market as fast as the PS5 ssd, so a gaming pc would cut it. You would be able to run this demo, as you would be able to stream data fast enough. The PS5 would even beat a 2080ti in that remark. The future will be in super fast ssd's, gaming pcs will lag behind for a while.
You are mistaking storage speed for processing speed. A faster storage device, the <probably Pcie-4 ssd) is going to decrease load times and inter stage times. The actual on screen effects is going to be devoted to the processor and graphics ability. Since most consoles graphics are developed by the same companies that make PC cards, its just rare that a console would be the first to display newer graphic ability b4 a new generations PC graphics cards. Its a no-brainer that a PC will have and be able to surpass what ever next gen console after a while. Although if it understand this correctly, there will be millions of PCIe-4 capable consoles before an appreciable amount of PCIe-4 Pc's. This will be the first time this has happened. PCIe-4 is just now becoming available for the pc. PC's usually lead consoles in all categories.
 

Uniblab

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There's no doubt that both consoles are doing a great job for the cost. The idea that the technology crushes a PC's performance was laughable. The statement in the video seemed nothing more than a paid promotion. Many people won't look to see if things are true or not. The RTX 2070 is a midrange card for the somewhat current / last generation of GPU's, NVME M.2's are pretty easy to come by. The new AMD Navi GPU's and Nvidia 3000 series will be way ahead of the upcoming consoles. For a price though, which is usually the case for high end PC gaming. Only people they were fooling are people who just hear what they want to hear instead of accepting reality. I don't get the attacks these days. Everyone is going to win this generation regardless of platform.
The Unreal Engine 5 demo made the PS5 look really good. But a gaming PC can reportedly run the amazing graphics showcase too.

Forget PS5: PCs With RTX 2070 Super Can Handle Unreal Engine 5 Demo : Read more
My only issue / concern with the title is that it was written by a toms editor who would/should understand the hype he's generating. There is a suprising truth however. Depending on the adoption rate of new pcie-4 capable AMD motherboards and the few pcie-4 ssds that are available today, the next gen sony console will be the home device with the highest ssd load times for a while. Although there will be a few home Pc's with appreciable and even faster storage devices. the number of sony consoles with faster ssd's will be greater by number. Has this ever happened before? Consoles with leading technology in more homes?
 
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The problem is and I already mentioned this it can't be fully utilized and still have backwards comparability with the PS4 .... It will only work at it's full potential for games and game engines that are PS5 only ..... And you won't be seeing those for a couple more years and PC's will have caught up and exceeded that tech by then ..... The only reason we aren't seeing this compression tech on PCs now is there aren't any game to use it but a year from now there will be and you'll see the same compression technology on PC PCIe 4.0 SSDs especially if they can leverage it for use in servers which is very likely especially when combined with Nvidia's Ampere technology which is for more than just gaming GPUs but also for parallel processing in servers and they are also going to want that high throughput and even more from their SSDs
I think everyone knows only PS5 games will take advantage, they made for it. And PS4 games will take more advantage of the SSD faster throughput and load faster. This is proven on the PS4 already!

And if you think that Sony's First Parties won't take full advantage of it, then you need to get off the keys man. They already had Spider-Man Streaming from it, which is a PS4 game. That was the first demo they saw.
 
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The problem with your assumption that "pcs will have the same speed or more" is that only 1% of the PCs will have that same speed, while all PS5s will. So games for PC will probably not run that well for a long time unless game engines are optimised for the 1% (which can happen, but will take a while). Even today you have computers being sold with disk drives, so yeah, not marketing, but I'm sure PS5 and Xbox having fast SSDs will push PCs to catch up.

But my second point is:
The graphics card mentioned goes for around 500 - 600$. An SSD comparable with the PS5s will be at least 200$ more. You'll probably be able to buy 2 PS5s juts for the price of these components on the PC, not even counting with RAM, motherboard and whatever ticks your gaming fancy. After you're finished, wouldn't be surprised the equivalent PC being 3 times as expensive as the console (that will most likely be subsidised by Sony).

The demo is awesome, and I'm sure anyone will be able to build a device with the same specs as the PS5 eventually (even though there is a lot of magic in the tighter integration of RAM with the SSD that is nowhere that I have see on the PC side), but it will cost a LOT more, and that has been the point of this, since the beginning. Affordable gaming for people that don't want to tinker and play with their parts. There is something really awesome in getting home from work and resuming my game from my sleeping console from exactly where I was 100% of the time.
I just tried to build a computer on Newegg for the same price, and I went over just in three components alone.
 
Apr 27, 2020
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You are mistaking storage speed for processing speed. A faster storage device, the <probably Pcie-4 ssd) is going to decrease load times and inter stage times. The actual on screen effects is going to be devoted to the processor and graphics ability. Since most consoles graphics are developed by the same companies that make PC cards, its just rare that a console would be the first to display newer graphic ability b4 a new generations PC graphics cards. Its a no-brainer that a PC will have and be able to surpass what ever next gen console after a while. Although if it understand this correctly, there will be millions of PCIe-4 capable consoles before an appreciable amount of PCIe-4 Pc's. This will be the first time this has happened. PCIe-4 is just now becoming available for the pc. PC's usually lead consoles in all categories.
No You're wrong. TEAser00 is right. Maximum throughput of PCIe Gen 3 is about 3.5GBps on Four lanes. The PS5 can do a minimum of 5.5 with RAW data. And PCIe 4.0 ain't there yet. PCIe 4.0 NVMe can do more, but we don't have them yet.

And it isn't about just speed. Speed on PC is to the kernel but losses a little after that. Sony worked on the bottlenecks to prevent that and made a custom I/O chip with AMD to prevent that. It is a lot more complex than you putting out.
 
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Deicidium369

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No You're wrong. TEAser00 is right. Maximum throughput of PCIe Gen 3 is about 3.5Gbps on Four lanes. The PS5 can do a minimum of 5.5 with RAW data. And PCIe 4.0 ain't there yet. PCIe 4.0 NVMe can do more, but we don't have them yet.

And it isn't about just speed. Speed on PC is to the kernel but losses a little after that. Sony worked on the bottlenecks to prevent that and made a custom I/O chip with AMD to prevent that. It is a lot more complex than you putting out.
Samsung is showing NVMe drive at 6500/5500MB/s read /write. PCie4. 980 Pro.
 

epobirs

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The idea that a console shipping in late 2020 for approximately $500 is going to be a major leap over a gaming focused PC costing 2x to 3x to build in the same period. Unlike a comic book story where a character or group of characters have technology greatly in advance of the entire rest of the world to wield as a great advantage, real life doesn't work that way.

Where these new console generation will excel is in having a homogeneous installed base. If Sony sells through 10 million PS5 units, that's 10 million potential customers that can reliably run a game that exploits the hardware to the fullest ability of the developer. This is a freedom the PC market doesn't offer and thus is harder to ship a game that fully utilizes the latest and greatest hardware available.

So the technically best games on the PS5 and Series X will be remarkable for a while, until PC developers feel confident they can ship a game with base requirements far in excess of what could currently hope to turn a profit. That time is approaching fast and the window for the consoles to exploit their base hardware advantage is possibly less than a year. The PC will still be a highly variable platform but things inexorably move forward. The place to watch is the low end. When AMD ships an APU for the desktop market with an RDNA2 GPU on board, that will be a big message to game publishers as to what they can use for minimum specs.
 

martinch

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Maximum throughput of PCIe Gen 3 is about 3.5Gbps on Four lanes.
I fear that you're getting your units mixed up (bits vs Bytes) - 3.5Gbps is about 440MB/s, which SATA-III drives were capable of (I'm assuming you mean 3.5GBps, which is about 22Gbps)

The idea that a console shipping in late 2020 for approximately $500 is going to be a major leap over a gaming focused PC costing 2x to 3x to build in the same period. Unlike a comic book story where a character or group of characters have technology greatly in advance of the entire rest of the world to wield as a great advantage, real life doesn't work that way.
Not contradicting you, but the reasoning probably has come from it having worked that way in the past (back with the original Playstation), however, at that point consoles were very much custom hardware (custom CPU, etc), and that is less the case these days (although don't forget Sony et al will be buying chips at scale, and will therefore be able to get more tech for the $/£/€ compared to the consumer). Either way, it's an impressive amount of performance they are putting out for the money.
 

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