News Former Intel directors strongly oppose TSMC takeover, call for Intel fabs spinoff

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Are these the same directors that were behind the node deficit problem in the first place?
Just because someone holds a fancy title doesn't mean everything they say has value.
If these are the directors that made the problem they should be considered less likely to be correct than a dart toss at a board.
 
Co BIY said:
A TSMC takeover would probably not work for a large number of reasons .

It would also never be approved by regulators for creating a huge monopoly in this critical space.
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Yeah normally yes, but...trump/elon... anything could happen.
These dudes be creaaaaazy.
Also the way it is stated it would be a forced alliance between intel/tsmc creating a new (sub/sister) company that would manage both intel and tsmc fabs located on U.S. grounds.
So it wouldn't be a monopoly.
 
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I don't see how it is better than IDM 2.0. Strong Foundry, strong Design, and get the synergy between them. One can afford small slips on either side. Independent board members can be hired to ensure customer fairness. IPs sharing can be standardized, maintain a circle of trustworthy players that respect IPs...

With an ASMC construct, govt will need to subsidies every slip. The firm risks turning into a subsidies seeking institution known as a zombie enterprise. If those experts really want to steer the US into state capitalism, they probably should experiment with smaller industries that don't impact humanity first.
 
This sounds like the last stupid proposition from former Intel board members for splitting the company. The earliest a potential split could even be viable is after the Intel 12 node with UMC is volume ready. The alternative would be Intel guaranteeing wafer buys like AMD did with GF which blew up in AMD's face because GF killed 7nm. This doesn't seem like a particularly smart alternative plan either.

Intel 3 and 18A are the only nodes designed with industry standard tools. Intel 16 (22nm) has had some limited success, but this is not a node which will help the pocketbook. Board members with a wall street slant are why Intel is in the position it is now so they're hardly ones anyone should be listening to.
 
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China is already complaining about Taiwan off-shoring its manufacturing to other countries. It is in Taiwan's interest to make itself look not too valuable to China... where China just can't control its greed from wanting to take Taiwan over. Companies like TSMC need back-up strategies in case China invades Taiwan.

Perhaps fabs located in Australia, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea, the US, Canada and/or Mexico, Brazil, etc.
 
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TerryLaze said:
Yeah normally yes, but...trump/elon... anything could happen.
These dudes be creaaaaazy.
Also the way it is stated it would be a forced alliance between intel/tsmc creating a new (sub/sister) company that would manage both intel and tsmc fabs located on U.S. grounds.
So it wouldn't be a monopoly.
Click to expand...
Sounds a lot like "communism", wasn't that supposed to be the Democrats not the GOP?
 
TerryLaze said:
Yeah normally yes, but...trump/elon... anything could happen.
These dudes be creaaaaazy.
Also the way it is stated it would be a forced alliance between intel/tsmc creating a new (sub/sister) company that would manage both intel and tsmc fabs located on U.S. grounds.
So it wouldn't be a monopoly.
Click to expand...

That smells an awful lot like politics?
 
truerock said:
China is already complaining about Taiwan off-shoring its manufacturing to other countries. It is in Taiwan's interest to make itself look not too valuable to China... where China just can't control its greed from wanting to take Taiwan over. Companies like TSMC need back-up strategies in case China invades Taiwan.

Perhaps fabs located in Australia, Japan, Vietnam, South Korea, the US, Canada and/or Mexico, Brazil, etc.
Click to expand...
Good point. China has more reason to block a TSMC/Intel deal than an Intel/Tower deal, which they did.
 
Dang... when I worked there 10+ years ago I knew this was a poorly run company. Way to top heavy and stuck in it's old ways. But the people who worked their, just kept coming in and it kept going... I suspected this would happen, but it's sad to see it.
 
I wonder if this is karma for all of Intel's past criminal actions? Perhaps they feel they are "Too Big to fail"? Time will tell if they can recover from their many business mistakes.
 
Intel needs to scale down the fab operations (sadly may need a bailout here), and perfect its technology that makes customers want to manufacture at intel and not "forced" to manufacture at Intel. Once when this is accomplished is when a gradual scale up capacity is financially possible.
 
Everyone will remember the GloFo debacle, and Intel itself has failed at least once at becoming a contract fab. Any "guaranteed customer" type of agreement must have a "foundry performance guarantee" as well - if the spun out Intel foundry can't make good chips the fabless customers must be able to leave, and the foundry company be allowed to fall to the process of creative destruction.

But handing it over to TSMC is terrible idea also: that would pretty much eliminate competition in the industry.
 
Poach tsmc. It's really the only way. They are the most successful fab creator for a ton of reasons and their foundational knowledge is what we need.

I think we should move to create a foundry group with all of the major players in tech in the USA and try to get them to all together fun a giant foundry push. Use Intel as the base and get them all to buy in to secure ea supply chain for these foundries. Then use their combine capital to get the right people...Taiwanese people ..to do it right

It's just how it always works. You can't reinvent the wheel faster than the people who currently make the wheels. We ne d sy ergy with these companies not just pure competition and we need some poaching.
 
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thestryker said:
This sounds like the last stupid proposition from former Intel board members for splitting the company. The earliest a potential split could even be viable is after the Intel 12 node with UMC is volume ready. The alternative would be Intel guaranteeing wafer buys like AMD did with GF which blew up in AMD's face because GF killed 7nm. This doesn't seem like a particularly smart alternative plan either.

Intel 3 and 18A are the only nodes designed with industry standard tools. Intel 16 (22nm) has had some limited success, but this is not a node which will help the pocketbook. Board members with a wall street slant are why Intel is in the position it is now so they're hardly ones anyone should be listening to.
Click to expand...

I think Intel would need the process lead before a successful spin off. Otherwise its just a used ASML machine sale.

But if they had the lead they wouldn't have the need.
 
JTWrenn said:
Poach tsmc. It's really the only way. They are the most successful fav creator for a ton of reasons and their foundational knowledge is what we need.

I think we should move to create a foundry group with all of the major players in tech in the USA and try to get them to all together fun a giant foundry push. Use Intel as the base and get them all to buy in to secure ea supply chain for these foundries. Then use their combine capital to get the right people...Taiwanese people ..to do it right

It's just how it always works. You can't reinvent the wheel faster than the people who currently make the wheels. We ne d sy ergy with these companies not just pure competition and we need some poaching.
Click to expand...
no one on the planet can poach TSMC. come back down to reality
 
Co BIY said:
I think Intel would need the process lead before a successful spin off. Otherwise its just a used ASML machine sale.
Click to expand...
They definitely wouldn't need the lead for spinoff to be successful. What they need is all of the equipment and nodes to be usable by anyone and not just Intel. Now I don't think spinning it off would be a good idea at that point, but I don't think it's a good idea period.
Co BIY said:
But if they had the lead they wouldn't have the need.
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Due to being a publicly traded company and one whose valuation got hit hard because "investors" are willfully ignorant means that spinoff is unfortunately still the likely future node leadership or not.
 
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