Found a one-minute cheater online

G

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Either that or we have some guy out there who is booked up to move 30 in
every line and can play all the moves perfectly in about 6.7 seconds.

--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women

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G

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There are no cheaters, only cheetees... :)

"Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:c8tre.24406$IX4.21622@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Either that or we have some guy out there who is booked up to move 30 in
> every line and can play all the moves perfectly in about 6.7 seconds.
>
> --
> Ray Gordon, Author
> http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
> Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women
>
> Seduction Made Easy: http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
> Get this book FREE when you purchase ANY affiliated product!
>
> Visit our FREE SPEECH SEDUCTION REVIEW message boards at:
> http://cybersheet.com/eve/ubb.x
> Compare over a dozen different seduction e-books and get SME for FREE if
> you buy!
>
> http://www.cybersheet.com/chess.html
> Free Chess E-book: Train Like A Chess Champion
>
> Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
>
 
G

Guest

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In other words..he beat you and you are pissed.

john
"Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:c8tre.24406$IX4.21622@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Either that or we have some guy out there who is booked up to move 30 in
> every line and can play all the moves perfectly in about 6.7 seconds.
>
> --
> Ray Gordon, Author
> http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
> Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women
>
> Seduction Made Easy: http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
> Get this book FREE when you purchase ANY affiliated product!
>
> Visit our FREE SPEECH SEDUCTION REVIEW message boards at:
> http://cybersheet.com/eve/ubb.x
> Compare over a dozen different seduction e-books and get SME for FREE if
> you buy!
>
> http://www.cybersheet.com/chess.html
> Free Chess E-book: Train Like A Chess Champion
>
> Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

> In other words..he beat you and you are pissed.

Not pissed at all. Just commenting that if there is a real player out there
like that, he should beat the world champion easily.

I can hang with GMs and IMs rather easily for the first 20-30 moves of a
game, and they take time to think about their moves. This one was obviously
a program and played like it (instantaneous perfect moves, super tactics,
etc.).


--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women

Seduction Made Easy: http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Get this book FREE when you purchase ANY affiliated product!

Visit our FREE SPEECH SEDUCTION REVIEW message boards at:
http://cybersheet.com/eve/ubb.x
Compare over a dozen different seduction e-books and get SME for FREE if you
buy!

http://www.cybersheet.com/chess.html
Free Chess E-book: Train Like A Chess Champion

Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
 

terry

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"Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:nMKre.9952$jU5.2531658@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>> In other words..he beat you and you are pissed.
>
> Not pissed at all. Just commenting that if there is a real player out
> there like that, he should beat the world champion easily.
>
> I can hang with GMs and IMs rather easily for the first 20-30 moves of a
> game, and they take time to think about their moves.

You are talking a load of bollocks.
 
G

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Guest
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>> Not pissed at all. Just commenting that if there is a real player out
>> there like that, he should beat the world champion easily.
>>
>> I can hang with GMs and IMs rather easily for the first 20-30 moves of a
>> game, and they take time to think about their moves.
>
> You are talking a load of bollocks.

Would you like to give me 1,000-1 odds on $500 (put in escrow) on me making
GM by the time I turn 45 years old? I'm 38 now.


--
Ray Gordon, Author
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
Four FREE books on how to get laid by beautiful women

Seduction Made Easy: http://www.cybersheet.com/easy.html
Get this book FREE when you purchase ANY affiliated product!

Visit our FREE SPEECH SEDUCTION REVIEW message boards at:
http://cybersheet.com/eve/ubb.x
Compare over a dozen different seduction e-books and get SME for FREE if you
buy!

http://www.cybersheet.com/chess.html
Free Chess E-book: Train Like A Chess Champion

Don't buy anything from experts who won't debate on a free speech forum.
 

terry

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"Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:YbVre.9990$jU5.2556679@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>>> Not pissed at all. Just commenting that if there is a real player out
>>> there like that, he should beat the world champion easily.
>>>
>>> I can hang with GMs and IMs rather easily for the first 20-30 moves of a
>>> game, and they take time to think about their moves.
>>
>> You are talking a load of bollocks.
>
> Would you like to give me 1,000-1 odds on $500 (put in escrow) on me
> making GM by the time I turn 45 years old? I'm 38 now.

That is very tempting, What does Sam Sloan think about this ?

Regards
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Ray

I played someone on ICC who accused me of being a computer. His ID was
something like IshTayn and he was rated 2350 at bullet. I was around
1950. I beat him twice and he said I was a computer .. even though I
lost a piece early on. By the way my ICC id is geemurfi.

Geemurfi

Terry wrote:
> "Ray Gordon" <ray@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
> news:YbVre.9990$jU5.2556679@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> >>> Not pissed at all. Just commenting that if there is a real player out
> >>> there like that, he should beat the world champion easily.
> >>>
> >>> I can hang with GMs and IMs rather easily for the first 20-30 moves of a
> >>> game, and they take time to think about their moves.
> >>
> >> You are talking a load of bollocks.
> >
> > Would you like to give me 1,000-1 odds on $500 (put in escrow) on me
> > making GM by the time I turn 45 years old? I'm 38 now.
>
> That is very tempting, What does Sam Sloan think about this ?
>
> Regards
 

terry

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
630
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"eldritch" <gmurfi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118951686.635193.13000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ray
>
> I played someone on ICC who accused me of being a computer. His ID was
> something like IshTayn and he was rated 2350 at bullet. I was around
> 1950. I beat him twice and he said I was a computer .

The reason he accused you of being a computer is because
you beat him twice. Some people will always blame somebody else
when they lose - never themselves.

Dont let the 'buggers' get you down :)

Regards
 
G

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Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

As I started to play online I was not aware
of the possibility to make a move in
advance (I was using Shredder software
for the online games), so that it can be
executed directly after the response has
reached the computer.
Not knowing about that option I was
wondering how people are able to
respond within some small fraction of
a second with a move, when even the
mouse movement alone lasts longer.
After I started to use this option myself
I was able to win many games and
my ELO rised dramatically.
Theoretically if knowing enough about
the opponent it will be probably even possible
to win an online game by time without
considering what the opponent actual
did at all.

Claudio

"Terry" <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d8uccu$9tn$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "eldritch" <gmurfi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118951686.635193.13000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Ray
> >
> > I played someone on ICC who accused me of being a computer. His ID was
> > something like IshTayn and he was rated 2350 at bullet. I was around
> > 1950. I beat him twice and he said I was a computer .
>
> The reason he accused you of being a computer is because
> you beat him twice. Some people will always blame somebody else
> when they lose - never themselves.
>
> Dont let the 'buggers' get you down :)
>
> Regards
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0? By the way Lshtayn
played me again the other day at 1/0 and beat me, but as I was censored
(due to me being a computer still) couldn't talk to him. Bet its the
guy above as he's keeping quiet. G

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> As I started to play online I was not aware
> of the possibility to make a move in
> advance (I was using Shredder software
> for the online games), so that it can be
> executed directly after the response has
> reached the computer.
> Not knowing about that option I was
> wondering how people are able to
> respond within some small fraction of
> a second with a move, when even the
> mouse movement alone lasts longer.
> After I started to use this option myself
> I was able to win many games and
> my ELO rised dramatically.
> Theoretically if knowing enough about
> the opponent it will be probably even possible
> to win an online game by time without
> considering what the opponent actual
> did at all.
>
> Claudio
>
> "Terry" <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:d8uccu$9tn$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "eldritch" <gmurfi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1118951686.635193.13000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > Ray
> > >
> > > I played someone on ICC who accused me of being a computer. His ID was
> > > something like IshTayn and he was rated 2350 at bullet. I was around
> > > 1950. I beat him twice and he said I was a computer .
> >
> > The reason he accused you of being a computer is because
> > you beat him twice. Some people will always blame somebody else
> > when they lose - never themselves.
> >
> > Dont let the 'buggers' get you down :)
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

> Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0?
Does 1/0 mean one minute for all moves, no
additional time for a move?
Yes, if you use Shredder and play at playchess.com,
you can use this option, but I think it is not cheating,
because actually your choosen move is done,
_before_ you see the move of the opponent,
so if your guess was wrong, you are in deep trouble.
I was not able to play myself 1/0 on playchess.com
because of the large lag I had playing there, inspite
of a high-speed Internet connection -
I just lost much time due to the lag and therefore
had no chance to win even if doing all the moves
immediately, but I played often 3/0 or 3/1.
If you use this option, only the clock of
the opponent consumes time, not yours, so if he
is not able to use the advantage he has because
of your not optimal moves, he will loose on time
or beeing under time pressure start to do stupid
things himself and then you can take over, use
time yourself a checkmate him.
I think, that playing 1/0 you have no chance if you
have to perform all your moves _after_ you see
what your opponent did, because it is impossible
to perform all necessary moves within the minute
(especially if you have some lag) if you are not a
world champion in performing fast mouse moves
and clicks.
Any hints how to avoid, that lag and the time one
needs to move the mouse is counted as ones own
time when playing at playchess.com? I would
_love_ to be able to play 1/0 having a chance
to win.

Claudio


"eldritch" <gmurfi@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1119383725.237019.204300@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0? By the way Lshtayn
> played me again the other day at 1/0 and beat me, but as I was censored
> (due to me being a computer still) couldn't talk to him. Bet its the
> guy above as he's keeping quiet. G
>
> Claudio Grondi wrote:
> > As I started to play online I was not aware
> > of the possibility to make a move in
> > advance (I was using Shredder software
> > for the online games), so that it can be
> > executed directly after the response has
> > reached the computer.
> > Not knowing about that option I was
> > wondering how people are able to
> > respond within some small fraction of
> > a second with a move, when even the
> > mouse movement alone lasts longer.
> > After I started to use this option myself
> > I was able to win many games and
> > my ELO rised dramatically.
> > Theoretically if knowing enough about
> > the opponent it will be probably even possible
> > to win an online game by time without
> > considering what the opponent actual
> > did at all.
> >
> > Claudio
> >
> > "Terry" <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:d8uccu$9tn$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > > "eldritch" <gmurfi@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1118951686.635193.13000@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > Ray
> > > >
> > > > I played someone on ICC who accused me of being a computer. His ID
was
> > > > something like IshTayn and he was rated 2350 at bullet. I was around
> > > > 1950. I beat him twice and he said I was a computer .
> > >
> > > The reason he accused you of being a computer is because
> > > you beat him twice. Some people will always blame somebody else
> > > when they lose - never themselves.
> > >
> > > Dont let the 'buggers' get you down :)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
 

terry

Distinguished
Mar 31, 2004
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Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

"Claudio Grondi" <claudio.grondi@freenet.de> wrote in message
news:3hrf1fFiac0rU1@individual.net...
>> Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0?
> Does 1/0 mean one minute for all moves, no
> additional time for a move?
> Yes, if you use Shredder and play at playchess.com,
> you can use this option, but I think it is not cheating,
> because actually your choosen move is done,
> _before_ you see the move of the opponent,
> so if your guess was wrong, you are in deep trouble.
> I was not able to play myself 1/0 on playchess.com
> because of the large lag I had playing there, inspite
> of a high-speed Internet connection -
> I just lost much time due to the lag and therefore
> had no chance to win even if doing all the moves
> immediately, but I played often 3/0 or 3/1.
> If you use this option, only the clock of
> the opponent consumes time, not yours, so if he
> is not able to use the advantage he has because
> of your not optimal moves, he will loose on time
> or beeing under time pressure start to do stupid
> things himself and then you can take over, use
> time yourself a checkmate him.
> I think, that playing 1/0 you have no chance if you
> have to perform all your moves _after_ you see
> what your opponent did, because it is impossible
> to perform all necessary moves within the minute
> (especially if you have some lag) if you are not a
> world champion in performing fast mouse moves
> and clicks.
> Any hints how to avoid, that lag and the time one
> needs to move the mouse is counted as ones own
> time when playing at playchess.com? I would
> _love_ to be able to play 1/0 having a chance
> to win.
>
> Claudio
>

Why is lag a problem with 1/0 or any other time limit.
Lag is not deducted from your time.

Regards
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

> Why is lag a problem with 1/0 or any other time limit.
> Lag is not deducted from your time.

I have tried to get evidence of problem with the lag,
but I must admit, that applying only measurement
I was not able to get any.

So I think, that my opinion was based of intution
and bad estimation of the time I need to do a move
myself. Apparently in time and position critical situations
I slow a bit down instead to speed up. In simple positions
it's less the case.

Thank you for pointing it out to me.

I'm currently probably too slow to play all the moves
of a game in 1/0 time, so I always loose on time.
Playing 2/0 gives me much better chances, but
going up with time over 3/0 results in problems
again (mostly with the position). So the range I
am good at is 2/0 - 3/0 and some variations
of them (2/1, etc).

Can someone explain to me how it comes?

Claudio

"Terry" <terry@tbean.freeserve.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d9b7mp$mo1$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Claudio Grondi" <claudio.grondi@freenet.de> wrote in message
> news:3hrf1fFiac0rU1@individual.net...
> >> Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0?
> > Does 1/0 mean one minute for all moves, no
> > additional time for a move?
> > Yes, if you use Shredder and play at playchess.com,
> > you can use this option, but I think it is not cheating,
> > because actually your choosen move is done,
> > _before_ you see the move of the opponent,
> > so if your guess was wrong, you are in deep trouble.
> > I was not able to play myself 1/0 on playchess.com
> > because of the large lag I had playing there, inspite
> > of a high-speed Internet connection -
> > I just lost much time due to the lag and therefore
> > had no chance to win even if doing all the moves
> > immediately, but I played often 3/0 or 3/1.
> > If you use this option, only the clock of
> > the opponent consumes time, not yours, so if he
> > is not able to use the advantage he has because
> > of your not optimal moves, he will loose on time
> > or beeing under time pressure start to do stupid
> > things himself and then you can take over, use
> > time yourself a checkmate him.
> > I think, that playing 1/0 you have no chance if you
> > have to perform all your moves _after_ you see
> > what your opponent did, because it is impossible
> > to perform all necessary moves within the minute
> > (especially if you have some lag) if you are not a
> > world champion in performing fast mouse moves
> > and clicks.
> > Any hints how to avoid, that lag and the time one
> > needs to move the mouse is counted as ones own
> > time when playing at playchess.com? I would
> > _love_ to be able to play 1/0 having a chance
> > to win.
> >
> > Claudio
> >
>
> Why is lag a problem with 1/0 or any other time limit.
> Lag is not deducted from your time.
>
> Regards
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

>> "Claudio Grondi" <claudio.grondi@freenet.de> wrote in message
>> news:3hrf1fFiac0rU1@individual.net...
>> >> Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0?
>> > Does 1/0 mean one minute for all moves, no
>> > additional time for a move?
>> > Yes, if you use Shredder and play at playchess.com,
>> > you can use this option, but I think it is not cheating,
>> > because actually your choosen move is done,
>> > _before_ you see the move of the opponent,

<snip>

This is new to me, tho admittedly I haven't delved into all the options at
playchess.com. I use Fritz8 on that site. Do you know if I can do the same
with Fritz?

As I understand it, what you're saying is that you can set up Shredder
essentially to make conditional moves? And if your foe doesnt make the move
you're expecting, then you play the rest of the game manually?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

> playchess.com. I use Fritz8 on that site. Do you know if I can do the same
> with Fritz?
No idea, but I suppose, that because it is the same
software house behind it, you can.

> As I understand it, what you're saying is that you can set up Shredder
> essentially to make conditional moves? And if your foe doesnt make the
move
> you're expecting, then you play the rest of the game manually?
I advise you to fully read the help files provided with Fritz.
The mentioned feature will be probably explained
there in the very detail.
I have seen yesterday some apparently playing
at playchess.com this method (including me :).
The outcome is sometimes very fun, because if one
assumes a classical opening pre-preselecting e.g. the
first five moves and the opponent chooses a crazy
response, your queen may be gone at that time you
take over manually ...
I think this is something you can play having ELO
below 1000 with good chances to win against others
who don't know this feature.
Sometimes the position is so, that you can develop
independently from what your opponent does, so here
you can really save time for moving the mouse if you
know your moves in advance.
I can't imagine, that you can be very good
at 1/0 without using this feature, especially
if you are forced to play many moves in
an endgame with a small number of pieces
and you are running out of time.

Claudio

"D Persica" <dennispersica@bellsouth.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:hEnue.125122$CR5.89336@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> >> "Claudio Grondi" <claudio.grondi@freenet.de> wrote in message
> >> news:3hrf1fFiac0rU1@individual.net...
> >> >> Claudio do you mean that you can cheat at 1/0?
> >> > Does 1/0 mean one minute for all moves, no
> >> > additional time for a move?
> >> > Yes, if you use Shredder and play at playchess.com,
> >> > you can use this option, but I think it is not cheating,
> >> > because actually your choosen move is done,
> >> > _before_ you see the move of the opponent,
>
> <snip>
>
> This is new to me, tho admittedly I haven't delved into all the options at
> playchess.com. I use Fritz8 on that site. Do you know if I can do the same
> with Fritz?
>
> As I understand it, what you're saying is that you can set up Shredder
> essentially to make conditional moves? And if your foe doesnt make the
move
> you're expecting, then you play the rest of the game manually?
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

D Persica <dennispersica@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> As I understand it, what you're saying is that you can set up Shredder
> essentially to make conditional moves? And if your foe doesnt make the
> move you're expecting, then you play the rest of the game manually?

We should note here that by `Shredder', we mean the interface not the
engine. From what I understand, he is describing `premoving'. Here, you
tell the interface what your next move will be before your opponent makes
their move. It's not conditional: whatever move your opponent makes, your
move will be made, as long as it's legal.

It's useful if your opponent has only one move or his move can't affect
your move (e.g., you've just moved your knight to attack your opponent's
queen and give a discovered check that can't be blocked). You can also
use it to make `slightly conditional' moves like this. Suppose I have a
piece on e2, protected by my rook on e1 and I make the premove Rxe2. This
means that, if you take my piece on e2, I will automatically recapture
with my rook but if you don't take the piece, Rxe2 is not a legal move for
me so won't be played.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Love Dictator (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ totalitarian leader that you can share
with someone special!
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

> We should note here that by `Shredder', we mean the interface not the
> engine. From what I understand, he is describing `premoving'.

Thank you for pointing it out.

Now _ I _ understand why the word "cheating" in one
of the previous posts was used. Sorry, I am a newbie
here, so don't know (yet) the appropriate vocabulary.

Claudio

"David Richerby" <davidr@chiark.greenend.org.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6cf*RyWRq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> D Persica <dennispersica@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > As I understand it, what you're saying is that you can set up Shredder
> > essentially to make conditional moves? And if your foe doesnt make the
> > move you're expecting, then you play the rest of the game manually?
>
> We should note here that by `Shredder', we mean the interface not the
> engine. From what I understand, he is describing `premoving'. Here, you
> tell the interface what your next move will be before your opponent makes
> their move. It's not conditional: whatever move your opponent makes, your
> move will be made, as long as it's legal.
>
> It's useful if your opponent has only one move or his move can't affect
> your move (e.g., you've just moved your knight to attack your opponent's
> queen and give a discovered check that can't be blocked). You can also
> use it to make `slightly conditional' moves like this. Suppose I have a
> piece on e2, protected by my rook on e1 and I make the premove Rxe2. This
> means that, if you take my piece on e2, I will automatically recapture
> with my rook but if you don't take the piece, Rxe2 is not a legal move for
> me so won't be played.
>
>
> Dave.
>
> --
> David Richerby Love Dictator (TM): it's like a
> www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ totalitarian leader that you can
share
> with someone special!
 
G

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Archived from groups: rec.games.chess.computer (More info?)

I note that our original contributor has not given out his ICC handle,
perhaps it was he that I played. His actual handle was Lshtayn not
Ishtayn. I played him recently and he beat me, but I was still
censored!!! And I don't use a computer on ICC else I'd be over 3000!!

Geemurfi

Claudio Grondi wrote:
> > We should note here that by `Shredder', we mean the interface not the
> > engine. From what I understand, he is describing `premoving'.
>
> Thank you for pointing it out.
>
> Now _ I _ understand why the word "cheating" in one
> of the previous posts was used. Sorry, I am a newbie
> here, so don't know (yet) the appropriate vocabulary.
>
> Claudio
>
> "David Richerby" <davidr@chiark.greenend.org.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:6cf*RyWRq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> > D Persica <dennispersica@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > As I understand it, what you're saying is that you can set up Shredder
> > > essentially to make conditional moves? And if your foe doesnt make the
> > > move you're expecting, then you play the rest of the game manually?
> >
> > We should note here that by `Shredder', we mean the interface not the
> > engine. From what I understand, he is describing `premoving'. Here, you
> > tell the interface what your next move will be before your opponent makes
> > their move. It's not conditional: whatever move your opponent makes, your
> > move will be made, as long as it's legal.
> >
> > It's useful if your opponent has only one move or his move can't affect
> > your move (e.g., you've just moved your knight to attack your opponent's
> > queen and give a discovered check that can't be blocked). You can also
> > use it to make `slightly conditional' moves like this. Suppose I have a
> > piece on e2, protected by my rook on e1 and I make the premove Rxe2. This
> > means that, if you take my piece on e2, I will automatically recapture
> > with my rook but if you don't take the piece, Rxe2 is not a legal move for
> > me so won't be played.
> >
> >
> > Dave.
> >
> > --
> > David Richerby Love Dictator (TM): it's like a
> > www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ totalitarian leader that you can
> share
> > with someone special!
 

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