[SOLVED] Fractal Vector RS thermals

[bumblebee953]

Hi all, I am seriously considering this case. It strikes just the right amount of size and RGB and future-proofing among the number of cases I've looked at.
My only concern is its very restrictive air design. Is the open layout mode by replacing the top glass panel with vents and installing top exhaust fans pretty much required (otherwise rear fan being the only exhaust) for decent thermal performance?
Are the included fans (2x front, 1x rear) also not strong enough to efficiently suck in and push out air? What would you guys recommend as aftermaret fans in that case?

 

[Phaaze88]

Looks like a lazy redesign of their Define series, and they didn't have issues with thermals...

As for the rest, you've left it too vague. No one knows what you're putting in there.

 

[bumblebee953]

Looks like a lazy redesign of their Define series, and they didn't have issues with thermals...

Hehe I take it you're not a big fan of the case? This would be my first Fractal case so I'm coming in with fresh pair of eyes so the iterative design doesn't bother me, though I am reading that due to the front and top panel design of this case it is worse in thermals compared to the Define models?

As for the rest, you've left it too vague. No one knows what you're putting in there.

Apologies. Here are my specs (some existing, some on the shopping list):

MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi
i7 10700K
NH-D15
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (2x16gb)
MSI 980Ti 6GB
Corsair HX 860 80+ Gold
Samsung 860 Evo SSD 1 TB
Crucial M4CT128 SSD 120 GB
WD HDD 1 TB
Samsung HDD 1 TB

 

[Phaaze88]

It's not that I'm not a fan of their chassis, but Fractal's already been flamed for recycling/refreshing current designs, charging more, and not really adding anything to justify the higher price tag.

Worse in thermals? Really? It looks a lot like their Define models though.
Huh, can't judge a book by it's cover, I guess... hmm, maybe they're using weaker fans in there?

MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge Wifi
i7 10700K
NH-D15
G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32GB (2x16gb)
MSI 980Ti 6GB
Corsair HX 860 80+ Gold
Samsung 860 Evo SSD 1 TB
Crucial M4CT128 SSD 120 GB
WD HDD 1 TB
Samsung HDD 1 TB

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't use the top glass panel on that - except if the gpu is a blower model, because we know those dump most of their heat right out the back.
With the axial fan models, having only a rear exhaust wouldn't get the heat out fast enough, leading to subpar thermals.

You do have some flexibility with this chassis though.
A)IF the gpu is a blower model:
-2 front intakes
-top glass panel
[Use the exhaust fan only if the fan is stronger than the fans on the D15. I've found that just having rear chassis exhaust isn't enough; if they are actually weaker, or not moving as much air as the fan(s) on a tower cooler, they more or less just get in the way.]

B)IF the gpu is a blower model:
-2 front intakes
-top mesh panel: the tower cooler will draw air from both the front and the top
-rear exhaust: refer to the point in part A

C)IF the gpu is axial fan:
-2 front intakes
-top mesh panel: 2 top exhaust. While axial fan coolers have generally cooled better than the blower models, they do so while screwing with the cpu cooler anyway. Plus they produce more heat than the cpu tends to, so the quicker you can get it out, the better.
-Rear exhaust: part A

D)???
-2 front intakes
-top mesh panel: no fans
-rear: none
This one might seem quite off. Sometimes what works best in a particular chassis isn't always obvious, but you won't know without personal testing.
This is basically what mine is, though my hardware config(first spoiler tag) is a bit different from most users.
I played around with different fan configs in my chassis and found that front intake was all I needed; more intakes or exhausts got in the way and lead to slightly worse cpu and gpu thermals overall.

 

[bumblebee953]

Use the exhaust fan only if the fan is stronger than the fans on the D15. I've found that just having rear chassis exhaust isn't enough; if they are actually weaker, or not moving as much air as the fan(s) on a tower cooler, they more or less just get in the way.

I've never thought of this. Does it matter that much? Are stock rear exhaust fans generally designed to be stronger than most tower cooler fans for this reason? I can't tell if my D15 (planning to use single fan mode) will move more air than my exhaust fan or not. How do I compare? Do I use RPM or CFM? How do those metrics change if I use dual fan vs single fan mode on the D15?

C)IF the gpu is axial fan:
-2 front intakes
-top mesh panel: 2 top exhaust. While axial fan coolers have generally cooled better than the blower models, they do so while screwing with the cpu cooler anyway. Plus they produce more heat than the cpu tends to, so the quicker you can get it out, the better.
-Rear exhaust: part A

I think mine is an axial(aka open air?) model. From the product details I can't tell any exposed fins aside from those heat dissipating pipes so I'm guess it's axial. This might change though as I am saving up for 3090.

In any case, the stock fans are all 1000 RPM so I think I may need to replace them all (especially the front ones). Do you have recommendations on brands? I read somewhere that the high static pressure fans from Phanteks are among some of the best around? Technically I'd also have one availabe from my D15 if I run it in single-fan mode, which is an obvious pick because Noctua fans.

 

[Phaaze88]

I've never thought of this. Does it matter that much? Are stock rear exhaust fans generally designed to be stronger than most tower cooler fans for this reason? I can't tell if my D15 (planning to use single fan mode) will move more air than my exhaust fan or not. How do I compare? Do I use RPM or CFM? How do those metrics change if I use dual fan vs single fan mode on the D15?

1)No.

2)The fans included with a chassis usually aren't as good as custom fans in build quality. Some of them can move more air than custom fans, but usually do so while being louder.
In my situation, it was NF-A15(1500rpm version) VS NF-A14 rear exhaust, and these 2 are technically the same fan.
I saw no real benefit with the rear fan, but my gpu is also liquid cooled and it's heat is being dumped into the chassis in a different manner. It's not as bad as it sounds for my D15S, as the temp of the air going into it from the gpu is in the 30s instead of the 60s now.

3)You won't know without testing with and without the rear fan installed.

4)Easy enough, set fans to max, and run the system through a benchmark like Asus Realbench(V 2.56 is the latest), or in a game or 2. Take note of cpu and gpu thermals(max).

5)It doesn't change too much. Dual fan has like a 2C edge over single.

I think mine is an axial(aka open air?) model. From the product details I can't tell any exposed fins aside from those heat dissipating pipes so I'm guess it's axial. This might change though as I am saving up for 3090.

In any case, the stock fans are all 1000 RPM so I think I may need to replace them all (especially the front ones). Do you have recommendations on brands? I read somewhere that the high static pressure fans from Phanteks are among some of the best around? Technically I'd also have one availabe from my D15 if I run it in single-fan mode, which is an obvious pick because Noctua fans.

1)Yes, it's axial.

2)Rpm alone isn't enough to determine a fan's performance, as far as 100% speed is concerned anyway. There's also static pressure, CFM, and noise level.
Generally, the higher the rpm is, the higher everything else is too. So find a balance between noise and performance. Unfortunately, hearing perception varies from person to person, so even though a particular fan may be 'quiet', you may be sensitive to the frequency of the hum associated with it's motor - sorry, I'm not making this easier...

3)Brands: Arctic, be quiet!, Corsair, Noctua, Scythe

4)That note about Phanteks is news to me...

 

[bumblebee953]

1)No.

2)The fans included with a chassis usually aren't as good as custom fans in build quality. Some of them can move more air than custom fans, but usually do so while being louder.
In my situation, it was NF-A15(1500rpm version) VS NF-A14 rear exhaust, and these 2 are technically the same fan.
I saw no real benefit with the rear fan, but my gpu is also liquid cooled and it's heat is being dumped into the chassis in a different manner. It's not as bad as it sounds for my D15S, as the temp of the air going into it from the gpu is in the 30s instead of the 60s now.

3)You won't know without testing with and without the rear fan installed.

4)Easy enough, set fans to max, and run the system through a benchmark like Asus Realbench(V 2.56 is the latest), or in a game or 2. Take note of cpu and gpu thermals(max).

5)It doesn't change too much. Dual fan has like a 2C edge over single.


1)Yes, it's axial.

2)Rpm alone isn't enough to determine a fan's performance, as far as 100% speed is concerned anyway. There's also static pressure, CFM, and noise level.
Generally, the higher the rpm is, the higher everything else is too. So find a balance between noise and performance. Unfortunately, hearing perception varies from person to person, so even though a particular fan may be 'quiet', you may be sensitive to the frequency of the hum associated with it's motor - sorry, I'm not making this easier...

3)Brands: Arctic, be quiet!, Corsair, Noctua, Scythe

4)That note about Phanteks is news to me...

Thanks for those tips!

Another case I was considering is the Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2. The panel design obviously lends itself to way better airflow, and with no stock fans it'd be the same as me replacing the ones in the Fractal case anyway except with no wasted fans.

I am looking at the Corsair LL series RGB fans. I think Corsair uses the iCUE program to coordinate the RGB? Does the fact that I'm planning to get the MSI mobo make that not possible? Am I stuck with the program that the board comes with? ie. Mystic Lights for MSI, Aura for ASUS...etc

 

[Phaaze88]

I am looking at the Corsair LL series RGB fans. I think Corsair uses the iCUE program to coordinate the RGB?

Yeah, they kinda force you to use it.

Does the fact that I'm planning to get the MSI mobo make that not possible? Am I stuck with the program that the board comes with? ie. Mystic Lights for MSI, Aura for ASUS...etc

No, you don't need Mystic light, etc.

 

[bumblebee953]

No, you don't need Mystic light, etc.

Ahh so I can still download iCUE program and use that? I guess I misunderstood how the RGB sofware compatibility works. Anyone can download any of the programs iCUE, Mystic Light, Aura Sync, RGB Fusion etc. You just have to make sure the RGB hardware you have can be supported by the program you choose?

I see some boards with RGB headers called "Corsair RGB Header" or "JRGB header" or "RAINBOW RGB header" etc. Aren't these just 3pin 5v aRGB headers? What's with the special names? I hope the Corsair RGB Header doesn't mean that it'll only accept RGB hardware from Corsair?

 

[Phaaze88]

Ahh so I can still download iCUE program and use that?

Yes.

I'm glad it didn't catch on with me. That RGB stuff can be a real headache, what with the possible compatibility issues.
-5v ARGB. You can't plug 5v LED power into a 12v header, or the LEDs will get fried.
-12v RGB. Plug 12v LED power into a 5v header, and the LEDs simply won't work, because they're not getting enough power.
-I know Corsair and NZXT hybrid coolers require their respective software; nothing else will work.
-Some of these companies do design their stuff to lock you into using only their products on purpose. Thankfully, Corsair doesn't have their own motherboards... yet.
-Try to stick with one brand for everything. It'll make the whole thing go more smoothly. You want to use some Corsair fans, use only Corsair fans. Don't go mixing fans up - the D15's fans don't count.
-Motherboards only have so many RGB/ARGB headers. You'll likely need a HUB to go along with it, like Corsair's Commander Pro.

I see some boards with RGB headers called "Corsair RGB Header" or "JRGB header" or "RAINBOW RGB header" etc. Aren't these just 3pin 5v aRGB headers? What's with the special names? I hope the Corsair RGB Header doesn't mean that it'll only accept RGB hardware from Corsair?

I've no idea why the special names. I think it's pretty silly and just adds confusion.
Corsair doesn't have their own motherboards, so how could they do that?