Fried Corsair CX600 and Gigabyte Z87 motherboard - power surge or poor PSU?

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joetaxi

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Jan 31, 2014
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Hello Everyone,

After a year and a half of heavily using the build listed below, (rendering 3D’s with Sketchup, Lumion & using Photoshop (all at the same time)) the PSU (Corsair CX600) has died whilst I was using photoshop & InDesign, frying with it my motherboard (Gigabyte Z87-D3HP).
I would like to ask whether a power surge would have been likely to cause the issue, or possibly was it due to the PSU’s (poor?) build quality, which has died ‘naturally’.

A local technician told me that a surge could have likely been the culprit as they tend to occur every now and then where we live, especially in the summer when the electricity demand is high due to our very hot climate. Supply is around 230V-240V but may vary up to 250V in some areas.

He also said that the PSU should have been of higher wattage (750W) to support my 4GB Palit Nvidia GTX 770 VGA. I pointed out that the PSU lasted for 1.5 years prior to this incident. Shouldn't it have failed to supply power to/fry my system way earlier?

NOTE:
I have contacted Corsair for a replacement and asked if I could pay for an upgrade, but they declined and will only offer another CX600. Before accepting and paying postage fees to return the faulty PSU, is it wise to use the CX600 again or is it better for me to invest on another PSU, say EVGA SuperNOVA 750 Watts B2 80+ ?

BUILD:-
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K (4x 3.5Ghz/ 8mb L3 Cache)
Cpu Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper Tx3 CPU Cooler
RAM: 16GB (2x8Gb) DDR3 1600MHz Dual Chnl. Mem. Kingston HyperXBlu
VGA: Palit Jetstream Nvidia GeForce GTX 770 4GB 16xPCIe 3.0
MOBO: Gigabyte Z87 – D3HP
HDD: 2TB SATA III 6.0Gb/s 7200 RPM
Optical Drive: 24x DVD/R/RW
(3.5” drive bay): 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer
Network Card: PCI-E WLAN 802.11n 300Mbps NIC
Fire Wire: 1394a FireWire 400 PCI card
PSU: Corsair CX600

Thanks everyone!
Confused Joe
 
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http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

this is a PSU tier list, read the description of the tiers, the cx series is tier 4, It is known for being pretty bad and craps out quite a lot, Dont get another one, try to get one that is tier 1 or 2 and find a cheap one on pcparpicker.com.

The technician is wrong about you needing 750 watts. That is not true at all 650 watts is PLENTY but again a 650 watt psu that is tier 1 or 2 is what you want to get.
 
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A 650W would be fine but that PSU you have is not really geared towards gaming. Problem is a lot of people buy those Corsairs and assume they are good for gaming when they are made mainly for office use.

That said, you probably had a bad surge kill the PSU and board.

I would do a 650W Seasonic or EVGA G2.
 
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The tier list is basically useless, and there's no such thing as a power supply "geared towards gaming." Power is power, it matters not whether it's drawn while gaming or rendering or whatever.

The Corsair CX600 is sufficient for your system, but the quality is so-so and thus the power supply will on average not last as long as higher-quality units. However, in this case it's much more likely a power surge caused the issue.
 
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I consider a PSU with higher end components geared towards gaming and high stress vs something like the CX series which uses lower end components and is not geared towards high stress/power situations but rather office and low stress systems.

And how is the Tier list useless? It takes into account quality of components, known issues and such. It puts the best PSUs at top and the worst at the bottom.
 
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The CX series uses cheap capacitors, which makes so that lifespan is reduces the more you put it under full load. The best PSU's can sustain full load operation for years without failing. However, the poor ones (like the CX series) can't perform well under full load for a decent length of time without failing.

As for the OP's question, do two things. First, get a surge protector. Regardless of the quality of the power supply, surges can be deadly to computers. Second, buy a good quality one. You don't need more than a 650 watt PSU. In fact, a 550 watt one can do the job. Some good ones are the Corsair series and Seasonic PSU's.
 
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So what you are saying is that if I get a top tier PSU, it would have a better chance to withstand a surge than a lower tier one?
Or would a surge protector suffice with a new CX600 for now? Getting a higher powered PSU means going into a better tier? Apologies for asking many questions but I'm quite tight on budget at the moment considering I have to buy a MOBO as well 🙁
 
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But high stress depends on what load you put the power supply under, which depends on the rated wattage of the power supply and the power draw of the system. In this case, 600W is way the heck more than that system will ever draw, so the power supply was not being stressed that much.

The tier list is pretty useless because it does not adequately take into account quality of components, known issues, and the platform used. It's inaccurate at best. It currently rates the Corsair VS series above the CX series, which is pants on head retarded.

You can check out Jonnyguru's opinion of the tier list here.
 
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A surge protector is the best bang for the buck in terms of surge protection. You don't need to get a top tier psu, but you should get something from tier 3 or 2 just to make sure that the power supply doesn't go belly up on its own.
 
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Tier is about other factors such as reliability, actually doing what its specification numbers claim, and meeting ATX standards. It says nothing about surge protection other than what every PSU must have to meet ATX standards.

Increased wattage also says nothing about withstanding more stress. In fact a much larger supply can be under greater stress than one that is more fully loaded. Relevant details require numbers unique for each supply.

Anything an adjacent protector does should already be part of the PSU design. In fact, a protector too close to a computer and too far from earth ground can even compromise that internal PSU protection. Then we include numbers. Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does the power bar claim to absorb? Hundreds? Thousand? That is near zero protection. In fact, a power supply can simply convert that surge current into rock solid and stable low voltages to power a computer's semiconductors.

Your concern is for a completely different type of surge that can actually overwhelm protection inside a PSU. That solution must connect low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground. Should be rated at least 50,000 amps (because lightning is typically 20,000 amps). And must be part of a larger system that costs about $1 per protected appliance.

This 'whole house' solution is the only solution found in every facility that cannot have damage. And how it was done even 100 years ago. Unfortunately most (who also never learn relevant specification numbers for a PSU) also ignore relevant numbers for surge protection. Effective protection means you know where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Using a properly earthed protector that remains functional even after multiple direct lightning strikes.

 
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Again the CX is not bad it is just cheaper. You can't get the best quality for the lowest dollar, especially in PCs.



But quality of components does matter vastly. Saying the tier list is useless is like saying I can go buy a cheap 850W PSU and it will last just as long as a Corsair AX860i or Seasonic 850W Platinum under the same load conditions. It just is not true. The reason they are so cheap is because the components are cheap, a lot of them have fan failures which end up causing other failures, the craftsmanship is shoddy at best and the overall build is just bad.

The tier list does actually take into account the components used quality that is why the CX V2 dropped down, because it uses cheaper capacitors than the original CX series did.

This is the same for most OEMs. Unless you are buying a top end server most consumer OEMs use the cheapest PSUs they can that will die off with a single surge easily.

And if you are worried about future surges, don't get just a surge protector. Get a UPS, even a small one that can regulate the line power.
 
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No. The tier list doesn't properly take into account the component quality or the quality of the PSU platform, which is why it's useless. People should look at reviews instead of a deeply flawed list that misrepresents the actual performance of the power supplies.
 
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You were doing so well until this. Anyone can read specification numbers. An adjacent protector only claims near zero protection. How many joules does it absorb? Thousand? Then read protection numbers for a UPS? How large are those? Hundreds of joules? Why would a UPS that claims many times less protection be better protection? It is not. Nobdy can provide one spec number that says a UPS protects from destructive type of surges.

But the protection that does protect from all types of surges and that is never necessary to protect a power strip and a UPS - is located where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. This superior protector costs about $1 per protected appliance. How much for less protection from a UPS or power strip? They are marketing to people who do not first learn what a UPS or power strip does. For the same reason so many need 'tiers' because they do not know what is relevant inside a PSU.

All PSUs provide robust surge protection - often superior to what a power strip or UPS do. The OP's concern is a rare transient that can overwhelm that superior protection inside all PSUs. Only a 'whole house' solution provides and claims to provide that protection.

 
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If it did not then why does the list here have OEMs in multiple tiers? If it was just simply a "This OEM is better" then I wouldn't see them in multiple but rather in a single tier. The tier list here has multiple PSUs from the same brand in different spots because there is no such thing as a always great PSU, even Seasonic has some OK ones and they are still considered one of the best in the business.

I personally use the tier list and reviews and normally the reviews on a PSU match up with the tier list in most ways except price of course because price is in the eye of the beholder, I would pay more for better quality hence why I got my AX860i.

Again, the main purpose behind the tier list is to try and lead people away from the generic crap PSUs and OEMs that across all brands have crap PSUs. I can say that I agree with most of the PSUs in the listing they are.

I do not hate the CX series, on the contrary. I used the CX430/600 V1 and V2 to replace the low end shoddy crap OEMs like Dell and HP use with great results, normally no issues for multiple years or ever. I just would not use them in a higher stress situation especially if you are pushing the PSU to its upper load limits. For that you get better quality, usually better 80 Plus rating but sometimes even the higher 80 Plus units can be crap.



Most UPSs come with line load regulation, meaning the power coming in is not the power getting to your systems. It removes the jitter, ripple and surges that come from the wall. Most standard surge protectors do not do that, they just have a fuse that will pop and hopefully stop a big surge from going beyond that which sometimes does not work. Most UPSs also have that built in.

The other benefit is that a UPS has batteries that would allow you to turn the device off properly to avoid any sort of data corruption.

And yes a PSU can offer it as well but I would rather still have something between my PSU and the normal wall electricity coming out. Nothing wrong with that.
 
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Read its numeric specifications. What number says it removes jitter, ripple, or surges? No such claim exists except in hearsay or wild speculation.

What creates ripple? A power supply converts cleanest or dirtiest AC main voltage into well over 300 volt radio frequency spikes. Makes the dirtiest voltage. Then superior filters and regulators in each supply convert that into cleanest 3.3, 5, and 12 volt DC. What is the source of ripple? Even superior regulators inside every PSU leak some ripple voltage - from that intentionally created 300+ volt radio frequency spikes. The poster should have known this presenting assumption as if fact.

A UPS does line regulation. And then we read its numbers. Line regulation is minimal. Electronic PSU connects directly to AC mains to have cleanest power. AC mains voltage varies significantly before a UPS switches to batteries. Of course line regulation can even be worse. Even worst line regulation is more than sufficient for any computer. How much can line voltage vary? Informed also provide perspective (ie numbers). Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. A voltage this low is hard on motorized appliances. And perfectly good for any computer's PSU. As even defined by numbers in ATX standards. He should have known that before making recommendations.

Every reason for a UPS for Is already made irrelevant by what must already exist inside every PC's PSU. Even unexpected power loss does corrupt saved data. This was not true in obsolete technology computers (ie Windows 98). For almost 30 years, standard technology required power loss without corrupting data. But some know otherwise because power loss was a problem with obsolete technologies.
y machine.

Same mythical assumptions apply to a need for 'something between a PSU and AC mains'. Please first learn how this stuff works. When not in battery backup mode, then a computer connects directly to AC mains. Where is that magic 'something'? Just as bad are more expensive line interactive UPSes. To harmful anomalies, that is all but a direct connection. Anything that can overwhelm superior protection in all PSUs will also easily blow through that 'something between PSU and wall electricity'. But then I designed stuff. You did not.

If that 'something between PSU an wall electricity' did something useful, then it was defined .... with numbers. All are cautioned about subjective recommendations. Same logic that proves a UPS does magic protection also proved smoking cigarettes increases health. In that last post, every claim is bogus. One need not even read this to see it. His every claim is subjective; cites no numeric specifications, circuit designs, or even voltage. He even confused the source of ripple voltage - t does not come from AC mains. Obviously not when one first learns how a PSU works rather than recite another's wild speculation - who also provided no numbers.


Tier cites a difference between a Honda and a Chevy. Of course the Honda is statistically better. But that says nothing about that one Honda model and that one Chevy model. Even Honda sometimes manufacturers a lemon - even though it is a top tier product. We should be discussing the unique PSU that is suspect in cause hardware damage; not its tier. However those who do not know how a PSU works will discuss only what they understand - a tier.

Does not matter if it is a top tier or bottom tier PSU. The type of surge that typically causes damage will blow through all. Sometimes an adjacent protector can even bypass protection in that PSU. Provided is where less money does so much better protection. By someone who actually did this stuff. As made obvious by which post describes reality with perspective - the numbers.

 
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You can argue all you want but I speak from experience. I had a customer who would blow through a PSU on a pre-built system we built (Corsair CX600s BTW, probably the most I have ever seen die in a row) once a month and when I asked if he was using anything he said simply a surge protector. He had dirty power, of course the town we lived in was known for that, that would cause surges to hit his equipment.

At my current job we had a site get hit with lightning. They had it on a APC and it got fried. The only other thing that got fried was their router that was on a separate surge strip and not on the APC. Everything that was on the APC survived including ther Buffalo NAS, Security system and switch.

A UPS is better than just a surge strip and a surge strip is better than a direct connection. There is a reason why this stuff is made and used heavily in the IT industry.

I said I know that PSUs can stop most surges but the grade available in a device like an APC is better and I would rather a big surge or lightning strike kill an APC than my PSU and possibly other components.
 
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Observation without first learning how things work is how junk science is created.

Let's discuss how things get damaged. Because a house did not have effective protection, then a surge was inside and incoming to all appliances. According to your reasoning, all should have been damaged. What protected the dishwasher, furnace, bathroom and kitchen GFCIs, dimmer switches, clocks, microwave oven, etc? According to your reasoning, all those without protectors were also damaged. Why were they not damaged when a surge was also incoming to everything? Your conclusions were only based in observation - that intentionally ignored those many other undamaged appliances - to justify an urban myth.

Add how electricity works. To be damaged, an appliance must have both a incoming and an outgoing path to earth. Modem is an excellent connection to earth due to effective protection routinely installed (for free) on all cable and telephone lines (as required by codes and standards). Damage was only on items that made best connections to earth. That modem, essentially, protected an APC UPS, Buffalo NAS, Security system and switch, and even all smoke detectors and recharging electronics. Protection (or damage) is always about how a surge gets to earth. Always.

Using observation, you ignored other appliances that had no protection and were undamaged. Using observation, you ignored what is required to have surge damage: an outgoing path to earth. Using only observation, your recommendations are bogus when forgetting to first learn how things get damaged. Conclusions only made from observation (no numbers and by not learning basic science) is why junk science is alive and well. You even ignored specification numbers that say that UPS only claims near zero protection. Hearsay and advertising explains why some know only using observation.

OP is strongly cautioned about many who somehow know by ignoring how electricity works. We know from over 100 years of well proven science and experience that protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Once a surge is permitted anywhere inside a building, then it goes hunting destructively for earth via appliances - with or without a UPS or power strip protector. Incoming to all. But outgoing only destructively via a few.

A damaged modem was on a protector that may have done what a more experienced engineer warned about. That modem's protector gave a surge more paths to find a potentially destructive path to earth via that modem. Damage due to a computer tech who never learned what defines surge protection (and that is not found in that UPS). Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipates (UPS probably only claims to absorb hundreds). A protector is only as effective as its earth ground which that UPS does not have and will not discuss. Effective protection is unknown where observation alone is sufficient to have knowledge.

Observation (and also making claims by ignoring numbers) is why junk science reasoning is alive and well. OP and others are warned of bogus UPS protection that even its manufacturer says it does not do. An informed poster would have first quoted numbers and learned how electricity works; not use observation to promote junk science conclusions.

Strongly recommended is something completely different, that actually claims to perform that protection, that remains functional even after direct lightning strikes, costs about $1 per protected appliance, and clearly is not that UPS.

 
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Its placement of particular models into particular tiers is illogical. Cooler Master GXII rated above Corsair CX and CXM? How about no. Seasonic S12II in tier 2, right alongside Seasonic G?
 
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The PSU tier list, like any tier list, is simply a quick, mostly accurate, reference for those looking for a power supply that have no idea what to look for and wouldn't understand what's being said in a PSU review in the first place. And there ARE those people. It's not useless. It may be of no use to those who know what they are doing and can draw the necessary testing conclusions from a PSU review but not all users can do that in which case the tier list enables us to NOT have to individually reference reviews for EVERY power supply model they want to ask us about.

If you feel you have the time to do THAT, we'll gladly create a thread for you and you can reference every single power supply review for models that get thrown at you from members in India, Pakistan, upper Europe, Russia and Africa, where the more common high end PSUs are not available and the users generally don't read English well which is what almost all reviews are written in.

And as far as translation of those reviews goes, you should know as well as I that translated reviews are unlikely to look or read anything like the original document and are going to mostly be useless.
 
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Westom, you must live in a totally different world than me -- power sags to very low voltage occur frequently in my area and without a UPS my machines would be a bunch of paperweights.

Nothing, UPS, surge protector, or anything else within reasonable cost will protect you from the energy of a direct lightening hit. I just replaced three gate controller motherboards and 600 feet of buried phone lines and pounded in a new 6 foot copper grounding rod along with all appropriate copper wiring to help reduce future damage from a strike that turned a UPS into a pile of rubble and put the gate out of commission for 2 months. (and I will not detail the damage done to a salt pool chlorinator motherboards from a hit to the water despite extensive earth grounding) Short of that in my area, a UPS is essential on any important electronic equipment due to frequent sags to under 77 volts.

The bottom line, lightening is a bitch.

I generally recommend use of a UPS in any case on important electronics in any area with poor line voltage control.
 
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