[SOLVED] Frustration...

[no0va.bhamade]

I'm getting frustrated for over a month now trying to lower my package temps and it's always on 44+ with a lot of spikes of 10 + degrees out of nowhere. i have a AMD Ryzen 7 3800x on a Asus TUF Gaming x570 plus (Wifi) weirdly the psu i have (powerspec 750W 80+ Gold) only have 1x8 cpu connector and i see on the mobo a 1x8 + 1x4 for the cpu. last month i got it overclocked to 4.45GHZ on 1.325 v and it was stable for 3 weeks, then i tried to mess around a little bit more and try to get the advertised speed of 4.5GHZ and it kept crashing while playing with voltage! so i went back to my original settings (4.45 and 1.325) then it crashed and kept on heating more and more i even tried 4.325 GHZ on 1.350V and it crashed so i went to bios and reset to default and only had the xmp enabled to get the 3600 out of my ram and getting lowest temperature of 47 and spikes up to 62 even tho i'm using a liquid cooler with liquid metal between IHS and AIO... HELP!!!
Specs :
AMD Ryzen 7 3800x
Corsair H150i pro rgb
32 GB Corsair vengeance pro RGB 3600Mhz
ASUS TUF Gaming x570 plus (Wifi)
250 GB SSD (with costume heatsink)
2 TB HDD
PowerSpec 750 W 80+ Gold PSU
6 Total fans (3 intake on Radiator 2 Top exhaust and 1 back exhaust)
Corsair Carbide 275r case

 

[Phaaze88]

1)Don't overclock Ryzen 3000. It's not worth it, and it's inferior to the combination of:
-great cooling, which you already have
-memory tweaking. Look up Ryzen Dram Calculator guides.
-PBO. Heck, some people even say PBO isn't even worth it - that the 2 points above are good enough.
Pushing it that hard can ruin the chip...

2)4.5ghz is the advertised boost frequency on ONE core, not all.
But, the cpu DOES TRY to boost to that on it's own across all cores IF power and thermal headroom allows. It follows a stringent boost curve so as not to kill itself.

3)You're too used to the cpus of old. The reason for the 'strange temps' is a combination of:
-the very 'bursty' boost behavior of Ryzen 3000.
-the greater thermal density produced in the 7nm package VS a larger one.

4)Why Ryzen 3000 cpus degrade from overclocking:
3800X, Stock
Light loads: high voltage, high current, but few threads are active at a time and boost to the advertised 4.5ghz.
Heavy loads: low voltage, low current. Most, or all threads, are active, and the cpu will try to boost all active threads towards 4.5ghz depending on it's status on the earlier mentioned frequency curve.

3800X, Manual OC
Light loads: high voltage, high current, but few threads are active at a time. Cpu can no longer boost to the advertised max on it's own due to the user's manual input. Sacrifices some single core performance for more multithread.
A manual OC at the advertised single core boost usually isn't possible, but you achieved it temporarily... but it may have come at a cost...

Heavy loads: low voltage, high current. Most, or all threads, are active, and a slight bump in multithread performance is achieved at the cost of some single thread - in most cases.

What I've underlined is the problem with manually OC'ing these cpus. These cpus regulate their current draw - OC, and that feature is lost. High current draw on heavy loads can't be sustained on these cpus.
And no, voltage and current aren't the same. Even if one reduces the vcore on an overclock, current draw can still be high, which is what happens here.

People have managed to quickly degrade and destroy their Ryzen 3000 cpus from manual OCs.

5)If I recall correctly, the Corsair H150i Pro RGB is not a performance-focused AIO, but one of silence. The fans aren't that strong, but necessary to be as quiet as possible. The pump's doing most of the work here...
It won't do much good to get stronger fans, since the radiator on this unit was optimized for low rpm fans.


TL;DR: Remove the overclock. Your thermals are fine - nice setup too!

 

[no0va.bhamade]

Update: So I took off the battery let it sit for 10 mins re-applied new liquid metal above ihs installed fresh windows 10 pro enabled xmp didnt overclock left it on stock except voltage to offset mode -0.1125 and now computer is at its best with temps low as 37 degrees stable and on cinebench not more than 77 degrees and on normal loads between 55 and 65 while gaming. So inguess Asus TUG Gaming x570 Plus (Wifi) is not for overclocking -_- am getting my self an aorus elite.

 

[Phaaze88]

So inguess Asus TUG Gaming x570 Plus (Wifi) is not for overclocking -_- am getting my self an aorus elite.

That's not the problem, but good luck in your endeavor...

 

[no0va.bhamade]

That's not the problem, but good luck in your endeavor...

what do you mean that's not the problem? did i miss something or did something wrong? it would help if u tell. Thanks.

 

[Phaaze88]

It was all in my first post.

The Aorus Elite will change very little, as neither of those boards has trouble with a 3800X.
There may be some slight differences in base clocks between the 2 boards, but that's about it.

Ryzen 3000 does not react well to Intel-style overclocking.
You've already got a good cooler, so make use of PBO - or don't, and tweak the ram, a-la Ryzen 3000 Dram Calculator.

 

[Karadjgne]

As Phaaze was kind enough to mention, you have a Ryzen, not an intel. And that's an important distinction.
Intel at idle lower clocks/voltage on all cores, but all cores remain active. So any background tasks get split up amongst the varied cores and you'll only see the hottest reported. The spikes are services starting up, so that's the core usually reported.

Ryzen differs, almost opposite (go figure amd not doing things the way Intel does...). At idle it'll put all the cores Inactive, off the grid asleep. Except one. That one gets the full load of everything running in the background, all 80+ tasks, and being the full load it'll see higher temps than the few tasks on any single Intel core. So it naturally runs in the 40°C range±. Meaning spikes can be 2 or 3 services starting up simultaneously, so spikes over 60°C are also totally normal.

You are freaking out about package temp, when package temp is normally the hottest running core, which happens to be the only running core on a Ryzen until you apply a load, like move the mouse, and that instantly wakes up all the other cores.

You don't have temp issues. No more than any other Ryzen user. You just failed to understand the difference to Intel way of doing things. Intel picks the hottest running core, Ryzen picks the only running core. The rest of the cpu is asleep at barely over case temps.

As far as mobo's go, Gigabyte cheats in its bios, Asus does not. AMD set guidelines to regulate exactly what power limits a stock cpu should be. Asus sticks to those factory guidelines like glue, Gigabyte and MSI do not. In the bios they artificially set a limit far beyond what they are supposed to be. For instance the power limit on a 10600k might be 95w and have a turbo duration of 56 seconds. That's factory Intel specs. Gigabyte changed that to 4095w and turbo duration of 999......... seconds. That means an all core turbo of 5.1GHz for a second or 2 then gets 4.7GHz permanently, whereas on Asus boards you get 5.1GHz for a second or 2, 4.7GHz for 56 seconds then 4.2GHz for the rest of the test. Gives Asus a bad reputation for underwhelming performance by Gigabyte artificially raising bios limits, technically not an overclock as it's a factory optimized default setting.

Which also brings the heat and some above average voltage, which can mess with actual manual OC ....

Ryzens are built to handle upto 1.5v at idle/extremely light loads with low current use. 1.325v at a more medium load with more medium current use. Gaming is an extreme load, extreme current use, 1.2v should be max. You are cpu limited to 125w use, so with a 90A load maxing out PBO/current use, you don't want to be in the 1.3v+ range or you can create instability, premature damage to the cpu etc.

As said prior, it's a Ryzen not an intel, it has a use for current limits so doesn't behave or OC like an intel will.

 

[andy0x2a]

As others have mentioned, you're more likely to see improvements using PBO instead of a manual OC.
1.325V might damage your CPU. People have seen degredation at 1.3 and 1.28, but it all depends on your FIT voltage.

I have a 3800X. I have found that I get a higher performance improvement with PBO instead of a manual overclock. I set the PPT and TDC to 330, and EDC to 140, with a 2x scalar, -0.1250V offset, and +100Mhz

However, with your cooling, you might want a higher (10X scalar), or try the EDC hack, where you set EDC to 10 to unlock better PBO boosts.

 

[Karadjgne]

Some bios have multiple PBO levels,

 

[no0va.bhamade]

As others have mentioned, you're more likely to see improvements using PBO instead of a manual OC.
1.325V might damage your CPU. People have seen degredation at 1.3 and 1.28, but it all depends on your FIT voltage.

I have a 3800X. I have found that I get a higher performance improvement with PBO instead of a manual overclock. I set the PPT and TDC to 330, and EDC to 140, with a 2x scalar, -0.1250V offset, and +100Mhz

However, with your cooling, you might want a higher (10X scalar), or try the EDC hack, where you set EDC to 10 to unlock better PBO boosts.

So I reset my bios to default, enabled dcop and set ppt and tdc to 350 and edc to 150 with x10 scalar and +200mhz and set power to offset mode -0.1250 and now pc smoother stronger with decent temos thank you for the advice man! And yeah I tried to put edc to 10 but it didn't work it shows that its stronger but actual speed don't exceed 3.3 ghz while cenabencg r20 score dropped by 1509 points on multi cores i the k its just visual bug that actually slows ur pc. But anw thanks for the advice now all smoother

 

[andy0x2a]

So I reset my bios to default, enabled dcop and set ppt and tdc to 350 and edc to 150 with x10 scalar and +200mhz and set power to offset mode -0.1250 and now pc smoother stronger with decent temos thank you for the advice man!

Glad to hear it is working.
You should try adjusting the offset, -0.1250V works for me, but you should try playing around with it, try higher and lower offsets until you find the one that perfectly fits your setup.

 

[Karadjgne]

Boost speeds are not determined by temp alone. They also boost according to voltages, current and the relationship between all that. So you might set higher limits, and even get a better boost, but that boost might not be on all cores, only the preferred cores, and the non-preferred cores now suffer from the 1°C higher temp, so don't boost as high as before. This ends up dropping the C20 multithread score, even with a seemingly higher boost.

It's a dance. All partners must be in perfect step or somebody gets their toes stepped on no matter how beautifully your partner is dancing.

OC on a Ryzen isn't about the numbers themselves, it's about how those numbers are used and the affect of the numbers to the other factors.

 

[no0va.bhamade]

So... i found out what was wrong with my PC, now I overclocked all cores to 4.425 ghz at 1.325 v got 5133 multi core score on cinebench r20 and 506 single cote 10.14x ratio, and ran aida64 for 30 mins and no errors stressed it using cpu-z stress for 4 hours and all stable! Tens are as low as 34.5 and max at 77 on cinebench and 81.8 while stressing it!
The problem was that I didn't know you can play with the pump settings (corsair h150i pro) it was defaulted to quiet. I put it to balance it ramp it up from 900 rpm fixed to 2010 and temperature went down so rapidly. And when I put it on extreme it ram up to 2800 rpm and an extra 2 - 3 degrees down.
How i did it?
D.C.P.O Enabled
Preformance enhancer at level 3 (oc)
Core multiplier at 44.25
Voltage manual to 1.325
I cant offset - cause if I do that pc won't boot. So stuck with manual voltage.

 

[Phaaze88]

What is the purpose of this overclock? Are you pursuing benchmark records? Is this for everyday use?
If the purpose is the latter, that is not sustainable for everyday use because the current draw gets too high under heavy loads. The cpu no longer regulates it's current draw with manual frequency settings.

 

[no0va.bhamade]

What is the purpose of this overclock? Are you pursuing benchmark records? Is this for everyday use?
If the purpose is the latter, that is not sustainable for everyday use because the current draw gets too high under heavy loads. The cpu no longer regulates it's current draw with manual frequency settings.

Just benchmarking stats

 

[Phaaze88]

Ok, that's fine then.