Funny Japanese Chips

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I've noticed that some Japanese-style mahjong sets come with an extra set of
16 chips with different colors.

What are these things for and what do they do? Are they part of normal table
play?

You can see an example here:
http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g30179894

(Note: this goes to an auction listing that ends on 4/21/05 and will take
the link with it. I have no connection with the merchandise or the seller,
who does not ship outside of Japan anyway. This item was selected solely as
an illustration.)

Simon Davosi

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American Code Of Laws For Mah-Jongg: http://tinyurl.com/445ld
 
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"Simon Davosi" wrote...
> I've noticed that some Japanese-style mahjong sets come with an extra set
> of 16 chips with different colors.
>
> What are these things for and what do they do? Are they part of normal
> table play?
>
> You can see an example here:
> http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g30179894


I've never seen those before. But I know who to ask.
Tom
 
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Simon Davosi wrote:
> I've noticed that some Japanese-style mahjong sets come with an extra
set of
> 16 chips with different colors.
>
> What are these things for and what do they do? Are they part of
normal table
> play?
>
> You can see an example here:
> http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g30179894

Hmmm... I don't know either. But are you talking about the four rows
of chips in green/red/blue/white in the picture? Looks like a multiple
of 4x5 chips.

But what got my attention in that picture is that they carefully
arranged the tiles in the order 123457689! Is there some Japanese
tradition to swap the 6/7 tiles? Very strange.
 
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:52:31 -0700, "Simon Davosi" <mahjong@nospam.xx>
wrote:

>I've noticed that some Japanese-style mahjong sets come with an extra set of
>16 chips with different colors.


These are markers which are used when the leading player (East) wins a
game, or at least remains East (when he/she had a waiting hand in case
of a remise).
For every time the winning, or not-losing of East goed on, an extra
marker is put on the table.
Whoever discards the winning tile in a game, pays the total of the
markers x 300 points. If it is to East, a new marker is added, and the
party goes on.
If East wins by tsumo, all players pay for the markers (300 / 3 = 100
points). And a new one is added as well.
Why different colors for the markers? Beats me!



|
|Martin Rep
|The Independent Internet Mahjong Newspaper
|Mahjong News:
|www.mahjongnews.com
|The Dutch Championship Riichi Mahjong:
|www.riichi.tk
|The Golden Dragon Hong Kong Mahjong Club:
|www.gouden-draak.nl
 
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"Martin Rep" <mrep@mahjongnews.com> wrote in message
news:1o7t51515qcnsq5j4mfokih657aqb064ub@4ax.com...

> Why different colors for the markers? Beats me!

"When the same dealer (oya) continues to deal it is called renchan.
Consecutive rounds are counted using the counter honba, with 1 [honba] being
the first repeat of the dealer (oya). During each round of renchan, the
losers must pay the winner of the round 100 points each (in the case of ron
the loser pays for everyone).

"For every round of renchan the amount that must be paid by each loser
increases by 100. A commonly used optional rule is that once the game has
entered 5 [honba] that the minimum number of han required to win increases
from 1 to 2."

http://suzume.kirisame.org/mj5.html#5-5

Hmm, is it white-blue-red-green or green-red-blue-white?

Simon Davosi

--
American Code Of Laws For Mah-Jongg: http://tinyurl.com/445ld
 
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"Simon Davosi" wrote
>
> "When the same dealer (oya) continues to deal it is called renchan.
> Consecutive rounds are counted using the counter honba,
> Hmm, is it white-blue-red-green or green-red-blue-white?

I agree with Martin that the honba (one of which is called "ipponba") is
about the only thing I can think of that these chips could be used for. As
for which color stands for which, it's safe to make up your own system. Or
you could just say "any one of them is ipponba, add another one when dealer
doesn't lose again," and don't worry about the colors...

Tom
 
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>> "Simon Davosi" wrote...
>>> I've noticed that some Japanese-style mahjong sets come with an extra
>>> set of 16 chips with different colors.
>>>
>>> What are these things for and what do they do? Are they part of normal
>>> table play?
>>>
>>> You can see an example here:
>>> http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g30179894
>>
>"Tom Sloper" wrote...
>> I've never seen those before. But I know who to ask.

I forwarded the question and the link to Ryan Morris, who lives in Japan and
writes a twice-monthly column on mah-jongg for Kindai Majan. He responded:

>I wasn't sure myself, and I asked around,
>and surprisingly, nobody is absolutely sure.
>
>But the consensus is they are most surely intended to be
>used as chips to keep track of bonus chips for red fives.
>
>You probably know how this works, but to confirm:
>
>1. Each player starts with a predetermined amount of
>chips (thus equal numbers of chips in 4 colors. Each player
>chooses a color and starts out with those chips. Note:
>is not necessary that they be different colors, but it is common
>that they are).
>
>2. One chip is given a denomination. For example, one chip=
>500 yen is a common denomination.
>
>3. When a player goes out, he earns one chip for each red five
>used, one chip for going out ippatsu, and one chip for each
>underside dora. If the player goes out off the wall, the number
>of chips tallied up in this manner equals the number of chips received
>from each player (so it is very nice to go out tsumo when you have
>a couple red fives, because you will receive 1000 yen from each
>player, probably exceeding the intrinsic value of your hand as
>measured in tenbo sticks).
>
>4. At the end of the game, the players count how many
>chips they are up or down and determine their debt/assets
>based on their starting chip count (If a player starts with 5 chips
>and ends with 9, he earns 2000 yen, etc.)
>
>Note that the chips allow for a bonus side-game to go on
>that is unrelated to the exchange of tenbo sticks that will result in
>determining a "winner" and the order of the players in the game.
>This allows for the occasional situation where a player in 2nd or
>3rd (even 4th in some rare cases!) earns more cash than the
>player taking 1st.
>
>Ryan
 
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"Tom Sloper" <tomsterSPAM@sloperamaSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:OOednUIFZKOoufnfRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> I forwarded the question and the link to Ryan Morris, who lives in Japan
> and writes a twice-monthly column on mah-jongg for Kindai Majan.

Bravo! Thanks very much!

My curiousity overwhelms, so I must ask: How did someone named 'Ryan Morris'
get work writing for a Japanese mahjong magazine?

Simon Davosi

--
American Code Of Laws For Mah-Jongg: http://tinyurl.com/445ld
 
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Martin Rep wrote:
> - how good are just 4 chips for each player when you use
> them to keep track of red fives and other dora tiles? When
> you are lucky, you can have 2 or more dora tiles in the way
> Ryan describes, including ippatsu (going out directly after
> a ready declaration) and for ura dora's (tiles that are
> hidden under the ordinary dora tiles)


The idea is not to accumulate chips, but to redistribute them. Each
player starts with 5 chips.

Oya - 5
South - 5
West - 5
North - 5

On RON, only the player who gave the winning tiles pays. For
instance,Oya declared Riichi and makes immediately RON on South's
discard. South pays 1 chips for ippatsu.

Oya - 6
South - 4
West - 5
North - 5

It's a lot harder than you think to win a coloured chip. Even if you
take all the chips from a player in one shot, this player can as easily
win them back later. You cannot take more chips from a player than he
has in his possession. So, if later in the game :

Oya - 9
South - 1
West - 6
North - 4

Oya wins again from South discard, she can only ask a maximum of 1
chip.

Try it yourself next time you play Riichi/Dora Ma-jan. I suggest
replacing the plastic chips with chocolate medals... A lot
tastier...(^_^)

> Otoh, the set on the picture does not contain any markers to keep
track of
> the number of prolonged winnings by East.

100 points sticks are always used as markers to keed track of those.
 
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Hi


On 18-04-2005 23:18, in article OOednUIFZKOoufnfRVn-jA@comcast.com, "Tom
Sloper" <tomsterSPAM@sloperamaSPAM.com> wrote:

>
> I forwarded the question and the link to Ryan Morris, who lives in Japan and
> writes a twice-monthly column on mah-jongg for Kindai Majan. He responded:
>
>> I wasn't sure myself, and I asked around,
>> and surprisingly, nobody is absolutely sure.
>>
>> But the consensus is they are most surely intended to be
>> used as chips to keep track of bonus chips for red fives.


I do not doubt Ryan Morris as an expert, but I still think my answer was
better, because:
- how good are just 4 chips for each player when you use them to keep track
of red fives and other dora tiles? When you are lucky, you can have 2 or
more dora tiles in the way Ryan describes, including ippatsu (going out
directly after a ready declaration) and for ura dora's (tiles that are
hidden under the ordinary dora tiles).
So at the end of the game (at least eight hands) you can have quite a lot of
the 'funny chips'. This also goes for the other players. So players would
run into trouble.
Otoh, the set on the picture does not contain any markers to keep track of
the number of prolonged winnings by East. So, right or wrong, *I* will go on
using them for that purpose. (Of course I could also use matches, or useless
euro-cents.)

Greetz
 
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Martin Rep wrote:
> > 100 points sticks are always used as markers to keed track of
those.
>
> From whom? When a marker is used to keep track of East's winnings, it
is not
> sure yet who will have to pay for it.

Doesn't make sense to ask from whom. The markers(counters) are just
that, counters. They are not given away.

For each consecutive hand with the same Oya, the East players takes one
of his sticks and place it in plain view on his right side of the
table. This stack of sticks is only a way of counting consecutive
hands. Each stick *represents* 300 points. Those sticks won't be given
to other players. They remain the possesion of the East player.

For instance, the East player has been Oya for the last 3 rounds. So,
on his right side of the table, he would have accumulate 2 sticks. Say,
the South player wins with seven pairs on a West discard. He scores
2400 pts for the seven pairs. Therefore West pays 2400(7 pairs) +
2*300(2 consecutive hands without change of Oya) = 3000 pts to South.
The East player takes back his two reminder sticks. South becomes Oya.
East becomes North. West become South. North becomes West.

Have a nice day,
Nath.
 
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hi


On 21-04-2005 04:57, in article
1114052271.594196.104340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "Nath Krismaratala"
<mahjongmontreal@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 100 points sticks are always used as markers to keed track of those.

From whom? When a marker is used to keep track of East's winnings, it is not
sure yet who will have to pay for it.


Your explanation of the exchang of the 'funny chips' does not sound bad. I
surely will give it a shot, the next time. (But for the time being I am
totally concentrated on COMJ)






| Martin Rep
| http://www.mahjongnews.com
| Open European Championship Mahjong
| June 24~26, 2005
 
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"Tom Sloper" <tomsterSPAM@sloperamaSPAM.com> wrote:

> I forwarded the question and the link to Ryan Morris, who lives in Japan
> and writes a twice-monthly column on mah-jongg for Kindai Majan.

Do you know of a way to subscribe to Kindai Mahjong in the US, language
barrier nothwithstanding?

Simon Davosi

--
American Code Of Laws For Mah-Jongg: http://tinyurl.com/445ld
 
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"Simon Davosi" wrote
>
> Do you know of a way to subscribe to Kindai Mahjong in the US, language
> barrier nothwithstanding?


Yes. Through Japanese bookstores. If there isn't one in your area, then no.
I don't.
 

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