Mar 4, 2003
<A HREF="" target="_new"></A>

anyone see this? it's an open letter from Gainward in Germany to the press (hence open letter). It pretty much just bashes ATI as being less innovative than Nvidia and a recycler of technology. Any thoughts?

<b>It is always brave to say what everyone thinks. </b> <i>Georges Duhamel</i>



Sep 7, 2003
Basically what he is implying is that the 6800 will vastly improve as new drivers are released which, of course, is pure speculation. He's also trying to defend them by implying that the drivers are immature, which leads us to ask "why would they release something that isn't performing anywhere near its potential?" And as far as NV30 goes, nVidia's CEO acknowledged that the NV30 had some serious engineering bungles, and in this era of prolific shading and DX9 the R300 cards continue to demonstrate top-notch IQ without sacrificing performance.

The battle between R300 and NV30 is far from over as the next-gen titles that these cards were designed for are only beginning to hit store shelves; it will only get more interesting as the year goes by. Sure the 6800 supports some new stuff that R4x0 does not, like PS3.0, among other things- things that won't be implemented in games for quite a while and that have questionable real-world differences in image fidelity. That's nice if you're working on Unreal 3, but let's see if the 6800 gets trumped in Half-Life 2 by its enemy's little brother the X800 Pro. Next-generation feature support is for developers- by the time something like Unreal 3 comes out, we will be pre-ordering Quake 4, and the 6800 will be a mid-range card and there will be a new gen. of cards for enthusiasts to choose from.

Wolfram Tismer criticizes the new ATi cards for their "today performance, an overglorified R300 with double the pipes..." People don't upgrade for games that are coming out in two years, they upgrade to enjoy improved performance in current and upcoming titles, and ideally, hopefully, the card they choose will age gracefully *ahem*. And anyway, in the end, price-to-performance is the ultimate benchmark, and in many cases the X800 Pro beats the pricey 6800U. ATi is no longer the underdog, they are a serious competitor and a threat to nVidia.


Jan 13, 2003
Screw Gainward...we have the <A HREF="" target="_new">Toxic Avenger!</A>

<A HREF="" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>


Mar 2, 2003
This Wolfram guy is an idiot!
Whatever, I'll let Brandon have his cheat card. It still gets beaten in half the benchmarks
I guess that means it also <b>wins</b> in half the benchmarks too!
Mature drivers are all great and wonderful, on release, but this is still the pre-season, time for testing and tuning, and I don't remember anybody winning the Super Bowl in August. Plus, if we look back on NV3X, we know damn well just how much NVIDIA can squeeze out of its cards with every driver release. They went from gimp when the NV30 launched, to being neck-and-neck with ATI now with the 5950 Ultra.
And how did they do that? They cheated!!! They sacrificed IQ for speed!!! Yes they did improve very much, but they had to cheat!!!
NV40 is a wildly different architecture, and I'm willing to bet a Tommyburger and Tommy's chili cheese fries that that NVIDIA will improve the performance of its card a lot more over the coming year than ATI can.
Of course the NV40 is wildly different, it had to be because the NV3x was sh*t.
I mean seriously, what is R420? ATI abandoned the forward-looking R400 in favor of a card meant for "today" performance, an overglorified R300 with double the pipes, one new feature (3Dc) and not even *half* as many shader instructions as the 5950 Ultra has. The cards are so similar, ATI could just stick a new name into the driver file and be as optimized as they'll ever be. So Brandon, if you want to defend technology ATI dug up in archaeological excavations from 2002, you're more than welcome.
Why mess with a great product? He criticized ATI for not changing their card drastically, but why should they? If the R300 technology is still as powerful as it is, why mess with it. If they had an inferior product and still tried to pass it off as cutting edge, and dress it up with optimizations/cheats *cough* NV30 *cough* then there would be something to complain about.

This guy is complaining that ATI is using old tech that still wins 50% of the benchmarks against it's only competitor? Who cares how old the technology is? as long as it performs well and can handle any game that is thrown at it? Where was this guy when NVidia released the GeForce 4 series? Did he criticize NV back then for doing the same thing ATI just did? Same tech, faster card. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
The only thing this guy and anyone else for that matter can criticize ATI for doing, is not supporting PS3.0, but even that remains to be seen.


Feb 24, 2002
Hot ass 60's Muscle car vs. a new Civic with 20g's spent on it. The muscle car wins (and is 1337). Does anyone criticise them for using 'old' technology?

Me: are you saying I can't provide?
Me: cause I know I can provide.
Me: oh and I can provide money too;)
Rachel:): why do we need money when we can just stay in our room and have sex all day?


Aug 4, 2001
ATi is no longer the underdog, they are a serious competitor and a threat to nVidia. would seem to me that ATi has not been the underdog for some time.

and if anything... nVedia is back as a serious competitor.

My take on things though.

PRICE PERFORMANCE! that is the ultimat goal! ATi is king there for what seems a while \.. imho

<b><A HREF="" target="_new">DigitalGunfire-Industrial EBM</A></b>
ASUS P4S8X-P4 2.4B - 2x512M DDR333 - ATI 9500Pro - WD80G HD(8M) - SAMSUNG SV0844D 8G HD - LG 16X DVD - Yamaha F1 CDRW


Jan 4, 2003
ermmm no? anywhere except high-end nVidia owned even during NV3x period. The amount of MX400 and FX 5200, FX5600 sold is many times the amount the R3xx series sold. Its just like Intel VS AMD just because AMD is faster doesn't mean AMD is owning Intel.

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D


Mar 2, 2003
I think I have to agree with BOTH you and cdpage! You're right that more units of NV were sold, but cdpage was right that ATI did hold the price/performance crown with the 9600Pro or XT.
Even though ATI had much better hardware at all price points (IMO), many consumers don't bother to do their homework and just simply replace their card with NV cause that's what they've always had.


Jun 26, 2001
Yes, because from that V8, the muscle car gets say 300 HP. Meanwhile, the new V4 pulls out a good 270HP.

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply