Games sort of like Elite

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Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Hi,

I am in the early stages of creating a game (how many times have you heard
that before) in the genre of space trading, fighting, pirate, mercenary,
missions... blah blah blah.

I am trying to learn from all the games that have already been done in the
area. If you could help me identify some more, I would appreciate it.

Basically, there are three camps of games that I have identified:

1. Elite-like - Space flight simulator with trading and missions
2. "Top down" versions of Elite (e.g. Escape Velocity)
3. Abstract Turn based versions of Elite (e.g. Smugglers 3)

Games I know of:

Group I:
Elite - in all it's versions (commercial)
Hardwar (commercial)
Privateer (commercial)
Freelancer (commercial)
X2 (commercial)
VegaStrike (Indie)
StarWraith (Indie)
Freeform Space (Indie)

Group II: (almost all independent developers as far as I can tell, with the
exception of Starflight)
Escape Velocity (Nova)
Jack of All Trades
Starflight (sort of...)
Wazzal

Group III:
Smugglers III
Space Trader (for the Palm)

Any new games that you can add to any category would greatly help me out.
Also, if you are aware of any turn based games of category '2' (like SSIs
old Interceptor game, but with trading/missions), I would love to know
about - since that is the game I am trying to make.

Thanks,
Michael
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Michi Kossowsky proclaimed...

>
> Hi,
>
> I am in the early stages of creating a game (how many times have you heard
> that before) in the genre of space trading, fighting, pirate, mercenary,
> missions... blah blah blah.

Good luck.

> I am trying to learn from all the games that have already been done in the
> area. If you could help me identify some more, I would appreciate it.
>
> Basically, there are three camps of games that I have identified:
>
> 1. Elite-like - Space flight simulator with trading and missions
> 2. "Top down" versions of Elite (e.g. Escape Velocity)
> 3. Abstract Turn based versions of Elite (e.g. Smugglers 3)
>
> Games I know of:
>
> Group I:
> Elite - in all it's versions (commercial)
> Hardwar (commercial)
> Privateer (commercial)
> Freelancer (commercial)
> X2 (commercial)
> VegaStrike (Indie)
> StarWraith (Indie)
> Freeform Space (Indie)
>
> Group II: (almost all independent developers as far as I can tell, with the
> exception of Starflight)
> Escape Velocity (Nova)
> Jack of All Trades
> Starflight (sort of...)
> Wazzal
>
> Group III:
> Smugglers III
> Space Trader (for the Palm)
>
> Any new games that you can add to any category would greatly help me out.
> Also, if you are aware of any turn based games of category '2' (like SSIs
> old Interceptor game, but with trading/missions), I would love to know
> about - since that is the game I am trying to make.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael

What are you trying to make here?
A new Elite or something different, I'm confused.
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

If you are going to create a game, what do you plan to use to program the
game? Or do you plan on using someone's game engine, while you do the story
line, art, etc?

Also, what are your qualifications? Do you have a degree, experience, etc?
Have any demo's of your own work?

Let me know.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:25:01 +0300, "Michi Kossowsky"
<michi@no.spam.isdn.net.il> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am in the early stages of creating a game (how many times have you heard
>that before) in the genre of space trading, fighting, pirate, mercenary,
>missions... blah blah blah.
>
>I am trying to learn from all the games that have already been done in the
>area. If you could help me identify some more, I would appreciate it.
>
>Basically, there are three camps of games that I have identified:
>
>1. Elite-like - Space flight simulator with trading and missions
>2. "Top down" versions of Elite (e.g. Escape Velocity)
>3. Abstract Turn based versions of Elite (e.g. Smugglers 3)
>
>Games I know of:
>
>Group I:
>Elite - in all it's versions (commercial)
>Hardwar (commercial)
>Privateer (commercial)
>Freelancer (commercial)
>X2 (commercial)
>VegaStrike (Indie)
>StarWraith (Indie)
>Freeform Space (Indie)

>Any new games that you can add to any category would greatly help me out.
>Also, if you are aware of any turn based games of category '2' (like SSIs
>old Interceptor game, but with trading/missions), I would love to know
>about - since that is the game I am trying to make.
>
>Thanks,
>Michael
>
Terminus is one you forgot. It's vaguely elite-like, and has one of
the best flight models to date in a space-sim (IMO).

X-wing: Alliance is a pretty good one too, but it's basically on
rails.

Battlecruiser: Millenium or Universal Combat, but they are basically
tactical based and I've been told hard to learn, and some-what buggy.

Independence War2 is another one with a very good flight model, but
the trading system is barter only, and it's pretty much on rails as
well.

Freespace and Freespace 2

Trade War 2002v2 is a text-based, ANSI onliine trading game, which I
think was the very first online space-sim.

...and a few others I can't think of right now.
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Strider" <email-address@signature.okay> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b5b353df666e08a989fca@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
[snip]

> What are you trying to make here?
> A new Elite or something different, I'm confused.


Something different actually.

The best way I could define it as would be a turn based blend of Origin's
Space Rogue and New World Computing's Planet's Edge with Elite First
Encounter's freeform trade/military/pirate/explorer plot (or lack thereof).

It has a top down display, but unlike Escape Velocity and it's clones, the
space combat would be turn based (think SSI's Intereceptor). Since it would
be boring to travel around the solar system in turn-based, I have two
different ideas for that - one would be the Elite time compression concept
combined with real time movement, or I could go the "Smugglers 3" route and
make it abstract. I am leaning to option #1, even tho it is more work.

On the ground, (planets, space stations), the display would change to a
basic isometric (think indie RPGs like Avernum/Exile) view ... for
repetitive tasks like trading cargo, ship upgrades, etc rather than have to
walk around the space station, that could be done via a menu ("Terminal")...
the walking would mainly be for the RPG/exploration elements or other unique
activities.

That help?

Thanks,
Michael
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Michi Kossowsky proclaimed...

> Something different actually.
>
> The best way I could define it as would be a turn based blend of Origin's
> Space Rogue and New World Computing's Planet's Edge with Elite First
> Encounter's freeform trade/military/pirate/explorer plot (or lack thereof).
>
> It has a top down display, but unlike Escape Velocity and it's clones, the
> space combat would be turn based (think SSI's Intereceptor). Since it would
> be boring to travel around the solar system in turn-based, I have two
> different ideas for that - one would be the Elite time compression concept
> combined with real time movement, or I could go the "Smugglers 3" route and
> make it abstract. I am leaning to option #1, even tho it is more work.
>
> On the ground, (planets, space stations), the display would change to a
> basic isometric (think indie RPGs like Avernum/Exile) view ... for
> repetitive tasks like trading cargo, ship upgrades, etc rather than have to
> walk around the space station, that could be done via a menu ("Terminal")...
> the walking would mainly be for the RPG/exploration elements or other unique
> activities.
>
> That help?

It's a nice idea, but not what I'm personally looking for something
else.

Good luck with the project
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Michi Kossowsky wrote:

> Something different actually.
>
> The best way I could define it as would be a turn based blend of Origin's
> Space Rogue and New World Computing's Planet's Edge with Elite First
> Encounter's freeform trade/military/pirate/explorer plot (or lack thereof).
>
> It has a top down display, but unlike Escape Velocity and it's clones, the
> space combat would be turn based (think SSI's Intereceptor). Since it would
> be boring to travel around the solar system in turn-based, I have two
> different ideas for that - one would be the Elite time compression concept
> combined with real time movement, or I could go the "Smugglers 3" route and
> make it abstract. I am leaning to option #1, even tho it is more work.
>
> On the ground, (planets, space stations), the display would change to a
> basic isometric (think indie RPGs like Avernum/Exile) view ... for
> repetitive tasks like trading cargo, ship upgrades, etc rather than have to
> walk around the space station, that could be done via a menu ("Terminal")...
> the walking would mainly be for the RPG/exploration elements or other unique
> activities.

Sounds like a great idea, and there's no reason why it shouldn't work if
the gameplay is there. Of course, there's gonna have to be a ton of
artwork done. I had a similar idea of a game (Trek themed), and here's a
few ideas I've pondered on to make it easier on you:

1) Instead of having to create each ship (interior and exterior) by
hand, use templetes. Let's say you have one ship, the SS
MasterSpaceShip, that's a Exploration-class vessel. You create the
interior layout minus any consoles or other objects and use it as the
master "object". When it comes time to create a new ship of the same
class, you can use this as a base. Then you yourself can set up objects
throughout the decks, or let the player do it after it's purchased new.
Same goes for space stations. Planets, OTOH, I haven't a clue.

2) If the game is going to support clans or groups, consider
implimenting a customizable Chain of Command for each. Not only would it
be useful for businesses, but also any military organizations.

3) Why not use an isometric engine for both space and first/third player
gameplay? Kind of like Starfleet Command when it comes to space. If
space is going to be 2D, then it might be the way to go.

4) To avoid extremely large numbers when it comes to in-game space
coordinates, use a proper coordinate system. One that's used on
text-based space engines involves the use of Quadrants, and that
includes four sections: Alpha, Beta, Delta, and Gamma. Then within each
quadrant, use a "sector" of whatever size you want. Finally, within a
"sector" use a XY position. Since your space engine will only use XY
coords, then it may look something like:

Quadrant: Gamma
Sector: 6:2
X: 10.78
Y: 93.1

5) Teleporters could be an extremely fun toy to play with, and open a
door to exciting gameplay. Knocking one of your enemies shields down to
zero in ship-to-ship combat, then beam onto his vessel and try to take
it over...

6) Jobs. Jobs. Jobs. Give players something to do outside of the
standard fare of "kill this and get a reward" or "trade to get rich".
Not everyone is interested in killing and blowing up stuff. Don't forget
to reward those who explore, interact and learn.


All of it's just my opinion, of course. Braben, are you listening? :)


-Will
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

> If you are going to create a game, what do you plan to use to program the
> game? Or do you plan on using someone's game engine, while you do the story
> line, art, etc?
>
> Also, what are your qualifications? Do you have a degree, experience, etc?
> Have any demo's of your own work?
>
> Let me know.
>
>
Out of interest, what are your qualifications? Oh, and if you want to
work with me, you have to be a member of the free masons.
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Michi Kossowsky" <michi@no.spam.isdn.net.il> wrote in message
news:40f1146d$1_1@127.0.0.1...

>
> Group II: (almost all independent developers as far as I can tell, with
the
> exception of Starflight)
> Escape Velocity (Nova)
> Jack of All Trades
> Starflight (sort of...)
> Wazzal


Starflight II more than Starflight I, since the sequel added trade routes.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Shingen" <Shingen@aolsukd.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:rnl2f0ht1dgd17q6kohctaki34almdonhq@4ax.com...
hard to learn, and some-what buggy.
>
> Independence War2 is another one with a very good flight model, but
> the trading system is barter only, and it's pretty much on rails as
> well.
>

There are mods available which add a full trading system into I-War 2, and
even one that allows trading between players in a multiplayer game.

Go to the fan site www.i-war2.com for details.

Best regards,

-- Steve
Stephen Robertson
Senior Designer
Argonaut Sheffield
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Kahlil" <kahlil@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h0lIc.19551749$Of.3241838@news.easynews.com...
> "Michi Kossowsky" <michi@no.spam.isdn.net.il> wrote in message
> news:40f1146d$1_1@127.0.0.1...
>
> >
> > Group II: (almost all independent developers as far as I can tell, with
> the
> > exception of Starflight)
> > Escape Velocity (Nova)
> > Jack of All Trades
> > Starflight (sort of...)
> > Wazzal
>
>
> Starflight II more than Starflight I, since the sequel added trade routes.

Agreed. Two other Indie games that I have found in this catgory are:
Flatspace
Space Empires : Star Fury
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Michi Kossowsky" <michi@no.spam.isdn.net.il> wrote:
>On the ground, (planets, space stations), the display would change to a
>basic isometric (think indie RPGs like Avernum/Exile) view ... for
>repetitive tasks like trading cargo, ship upgrades, etc rather than have to
>walk around the space station, that could be done via a menu ("Terminal")...
>the walking would mainly be for the RPG/exploration elements or other unique
>activities.

Megatraveller and Megatraveller 2 have that.
--
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/ /| | |`. \ | | |/ | ||_.-'
/ / | | | `. `. F F | |==============================
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FJ | | | |L J/ / | \ :::::::. :::::::\
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| F | .-'_ \ | | LJ | / L :::::::: :::::::J
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J | |J:::::::|| | | | _/\ | :::::::: ::::::::| /(@ o`.
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| `.`-.____|.-'.-' | | | <`. \ :::::::: ::::::::| | |
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L \| >|| `--' J |' .`::\ `.:' .::::::::/ .' F
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`-.-' K I N G O F T H E M O N S T E R S
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Comm. Alg <amorris916@aol.com> wrote in article
<794141a2.0407121015.72ba7631@posting.google.com>...
>
> just have a look see, let me know what you think.
>
> http://starfighter.home.att.net/
>

I'd heard about it as it was being developed. Glad it actually got made : )

Morgane
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

if you strip 3-D mode you can check some MMORPG games - Merchant Empires -
http://www.advancedpowers.com/
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:25:01 +0300, "Michi Kossowsky"
<michi@no.spam.isdn.net.il> wrote in message <40f1146d$1_1@127.0.0.1>:

>I am in the early stages of creating a game (how many times have you heard
>that before) in the genre of space trading, fighting, pirate, mercenary,
>missions... blah blah blah.
>
>I am trying to learn from all the games that have already been done in the
>area. If you could help me identify some more, I would appreciate it.
>
>Basically, there are three camps of games that I have identified:
>
>Group II: (almost all independent developers as far as I can tell, with the
>exception of Starflight)

Sundog (Apple II/Atari 800)
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Add 3D gfx and you have EVE Online at www.eve-online.com

"GargoyleBG" <minkov@haskovo.spnet.net> wrote in message
news:2lg6m3Fc4o4jU1@uni-berlin.de...
> if you strip 3-D mode you can check some MMORPG games - Merchant Empires -
> http://www.advancedpowers.com/
>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:25:01 +0300, "Michi Kossowsky"
<michi@no.spam.isdn.net.il> wrote:
>
>Group III:
>Smugglers III
>Space Trader (for the Palm)
>
>Any new games that you can add to any category would greatly help me out.
>Also, if you are aware of any turn based games of category '2' (like SSIs
>old Interceptor game, but with trading/missions), I would love to know
>about - since that is the game I am trying to make.

You might want to have a play with Rules of Engagement:

http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Rules+of+Engagement+2

--
Crayfish
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Petter Nilsen" <pettern@thule.no> wrote in message
news:SKIIc.3475$Mq3.71680@news4.e.nsc.no...
> Add 3D gfx and you have EVE Online at www.eve-online.com
>
> "GargoyleBG" <minkov@haskovo.spnet.net> wrote in message
> news:2lg6m3Fc4o4jU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > if you strip 3-D mode you can check some MMORPG games - Merchant
Empires -
> > http://www.advancedpowers.com/
> >

adding 3d gfx will require VISA platinum, otherwise it's free B-)
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:53:30 -0700, Bret Ripley <ripley@olywa.net>
wrote:

>I think you should market a space sim called "Realistic, Real-Time
>Spaceflight to Alpha Centauri" in which the player stares at a blank screen
>until he eventually dies in the hope that perhaps some of his descendants
>will someday see Alpha Centauri. Hell, you could even promise a working
>multi-player mode right out-of-the-box.

Even Derek could code that.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

On or about 7/14/2004 10:13:29 AM, bp <none@comcast.net> said:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:53:30 -0700, Bret Ripley <ripley@olywa.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I think you should market a space sim called "Realistic, Real-Time
>>Spaceflight to Alpha Centauri" in which the player stares at a blank screen
>>until he eventually dies in the hope that perhaps some of his descendants
>>will someday see Alpha Centauri. Hell, you could even promise a working
>>multi-player mode right out-of-the-box.
>
> Even Derek could code that.

Some may claim he already did.

Bret


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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"bp" <none@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1dqaf05usbknbg826rgqtbfi0r6ind3afu@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:53:30 -0700, Bret Ripley <ripley@olywa.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I think you should market a space sim called "Realistic, Real-Time
> >Spaceflight to Alpha Centauri" in which the player stares at a blank
screen
> >until he eventually dies in the hope that perhaps some of his descendants
> >will someday see Alpha Centauri. Hell, you could even promise a working
> >multi-player mode right out-of-the-box.
>
> Even Derek could code that.

I thought that was what he did code?
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

"Bret Ripley" <ripley@olywa.net> wrote in message
news:hagpv4alb3w4.1xw5futory5md.dlg@40tude.net...
> On or about 7/14/2004 10:13:29 AM, bp <none@comcast.net> said:
> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:53:30 -0700, Bret Ripley <ripley@olywa.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>I think you should market a space sim called "Realistic, Real-Time
> >>Spaceflight to Alpha Centauri" in which the player stares at a blank
screen
> >>until he eventually dies in the hope that perhaps some of his
descendants
> >>will someday see Alpha Centauri. Hell, you could even promise a working
> >>multi-player mode right out-of-the-box.
> >
> > Even Derek could code that.
>
> Some may claim he already did.
>

Like me, I guess.
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg Petter Nilsen <pettern@thule.no> wrote:
> Add 3D gfx and you have EVE Online at www.eve-online.com

You know, I'd love to have a single player version of EVE. "EVE Offline" so
to speak.

--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
anba@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Andreas Baus <anba@cip123.studcs.uni-sb.de> wrote in

> You know, I'd love to have a single player version of EVE. "EVE
> Offline" so to speak.

Ditto for City of Heroes. It'd be nice to indulge in mindless baddie-
beating every now and then, but it's not important enough for me to pay
$15/month just to have 'other players' running around too.

--
Samy Merchi | samy@iki.fi | http://www.iki.fi/samy | #152235689
Reader of superhero comic books, writer of superhero fanfiction
"*Astrolabe*...whirls...*twirls*!"
 
Archived from groups: alt.fan.elite,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.space-sim (More info?)

Andreas Baus <anba@cip123.studcs.uni-sb.de> writes:

> You know, I'd love to have a single player version of EVE. "EVE Offline" so
> to speak.

Freespace?
 
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