[SOLVED] Gaming PC Upgrade help appreciated! (budget around 1500-2000€)

[LordOfLostSocks]

Hello,

I am looking for advice on upgrading my current PC. As I have not thought about PC parts actively since I bought my PC in 2016 I feel a bit rusty and out of date and would like some support.
I have done some preliminary part picking, so I would like to see if those make sense in any way. I have listed them at the end of the template.

Feel free to question me on anything.

Approximate Purchase Date: Within a couple of months (later if you guys think it's worth waiting, my current rig is still doing OKish)
Budget Range: around 1500-2000 euros (preferrably closer to 1500 euros)
System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, netflix/youtube and such.
Are you buying a monitor: No
Parts to Upgrade: CPU, GPU, MOBO, RAM, maybe PSU?
Do you need to buy OS: I have retail Windows 10
Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Amazon.de, jimms.fi, verkkokauppa.com
Location: Finland
Parts Preferences: I would like to stick with Nvidia GPUs but can be conviced. Not too fussy with other parts.
Overclocking: Maybe, current CPU overclocked, but only did last year after 4-5 years of usage.
SLI or Crossfire: No
Your Monitor Resolution: 24" 1920x1080@165Hz currently, but potentially upgrading later on. Also have a 1080p@75Hz screen as secondary monitor.
Additional Comments: Don't care about looks at all.
And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Latest games starting to struggle running at 60 fps at high. Warzone currently running around 60-70fps average on medium/low.

Include a list of any parts you have already selected with descriptively labeled links for parts:

My current build:

1. CPU: Intel Core i5 6600K 4x 3.50GHz (overclocked to 4.3GHz)
2. GPU: GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1070 Gaming 8GB GDDR5 256bit
3. RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX schwarz DDR4-3200 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit
4. Mobo: Asus Z170 Pro Gaming Intel Z170 So.1151 Dual Channel DDR4 ATX Retail
5. CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU-Cooler
6. PSU: Seasonic SSR-650RM Active PFC G-650 PC-Netzteil (650 Watt, ATX 12V)
7. HDD: 2000GB Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 64MB 3.5" (8.9cm) SATA 6Gb/s
8. SSD: Samsung EVO 120 GB SSD (with only Windows 10 installed)
9. SSD: Samsung EVO 1 TB SSD
10. Box: Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition Midi Tower

Currently the parts I have been looking at are:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X Box Processor 270 euros
GPU: ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 3070 TI 8GB OC Version Gaming Graphics Card 1000 euros
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 135 euros
Mobo: Asus ROG Strix B550-F Gaming Motherboard Socket AM4 170 euros
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper Air Cooler 40 euros

Total cost: 1615 euros

Questions:

• Do above upgrades make sense together?
• Do I need to upgrade my PSU? Will it all be compatible?
• 3070 TI should last me for a long time on 1080p and leave me room to upgrade to 1440p, correct?
• Is the Ryzen 5 5600X a good pair for the graphics card? No "bottlenecking"? I tried checking the difference between the 5600X and 5800X and it seemed negligible, correct?
• Am I still correct that as long as it's a 3070 TI it will always be compatible with the rest of the build even if I ended up taking a different deal from above link?
• I know nothing about RAM and Coolers so I just picked some stuff from PCPartPicker.
• Anything I missed?

Thank you for any help you can offer! I remember in 2016 I got some good advice here.

 

[geofelt]

Your build can work,
I have some thoughts:

The ryzen 5600x was a great processor, but I think the recent intel 12th gen I5-12600K at a similar price would be superior for your games. The single thread performance is better, and that is what games need most.
Here is a review:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12600k_processor_review,21.html

There is always a limiting factor in games.
Usually the cpu or gpu. A 5600x class cpu is about as good as it gets for gaming.
12 threads is plenty. Most games can effectively only use 4-6 threads.
If you play multiplayer with many participants, then more threads are good.
5800X mainly gives you 4 threads more.
Single thread performance is the most important cpu factor for gaming.
On your 6600K run the CPU-Z bench and look at the single thread rating.
You should get something like 518.
https://valid.x86.fr/bench/k0kyrp
You can see what other processors can do.



You would want a Z690 or B660 based DDR4 motherboard.

Do you really need more than 16gb of ram?
Most will not unless you are multitasking while gaming.

Intel does not depend on fast ram for performance.
Your currentDDR4 ram is fine. No need to change it out initially. See how you do first.
If you decide that you want 32gb, then you will want a 32gb replacement kit.
Adding another 16gb is not guaranteed to work; ram must be matched to work properly.

GTX3070ti would be a great card for gaming.
Only if you were to contemplate 4k resolution gaming would you want more.
But, I think I would hold on to the current gpu just a bit; it seems that with the advent of intel discrete cards coming and the decline of mining, graphics cards pricing should get better.

Your 650w psu should do the job:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
But, it seems that the 3000 series cards can have high temporary power spikes so possibly a stronger psu might be warranted.

You can probably reuse your hyper cooler if you kept all of the other mounting parts.
It was a decent cooler that was very cheap at the time.(nasty to install properly; I did it once)

I would plan on a better cooler, regardless.
Modern processors are binned and designed to turbo up without the need or benefit from overclocking.
To do so, the cpu temperature must be relatively cool.

I love the noctua coolers.
Noctua keeps a list of which coolers are suitable for which processors.
Here is the list for the i5-12600K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i5-12600K-1581
There is a similar list for the 5600x.

Some air coolers will have clearance issues with tall ram.
Best to look at low profile ram like corsair LPX.

 

[Lafong]

The longer you are willing to wait, the more likely DDR 5 will become a plausible option...it's roughly triple the price of DDR 4 now. No one knows for sure when that gap might close.

I'm in your shoes with a 6600K and facing some of the same questions as you.

DDR 5 might not be much lower for 7 to 10 months and we might see 13th generation Raptor Lake by then.

If your budget is semi-tight, I'd likely cut back on 32 GB RAM and put that money toward a better cooler and maybe some quality case fans.

 

[helper800]

This Should be a good place to start. Note that if you want all new great quality parts this is about how much it will cost from amazon.de;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor (€289.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler (€53.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€219.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€134.35 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€112.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 215 ATX Mid Tower Case (€94.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€129.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1034.03
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-02-22 18:34 CET+0100

This is about as down-costed as I would go with a 12600k for your intentions though a 3070 TI is about as power hungry as I would go with a 12600k on a 750 watt PSU (amazon.de again);

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor (€289.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO CPU Cooler (€41.80 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€219.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€69.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial P2 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€79.98 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: BitFenix Nova Mesh SE ATX Mid Tower Case (€46.14 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€96.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €842.46
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-02-22 18:38 CET+0100

This is a dowcosted 12400f build that would not be as fast as the 12600k but is very competitive with the 5600x and save a fair bit;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (€180.63 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO CPU Cooler (€41.80 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€169.85 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€69.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial P2 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€79.98 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: BitFenix Nova Mesh SE ATX Mid Tower Case (€46.14 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€96.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €684.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-02-22 18:43 CET+0100

 

[LordOfLostSocks]

Thanks a lot for the support everyone!

This place is such a great resource.

Your build can work,
I have some thoughts:

The ryzen 5600x was a great processor, but I think the recent intel 12th gen I5-12600K at a similar price would be superior for your games. The single thread performance is better, and that is what games need most.
Here is a review:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12600k_processor_review,21.html

There is always a limiting factor in games.
Usually the cpu or gpu. A 5600x class cpu is about as good as it gets for gaming.
12 threads is plenty. Most games can effectively only use 4-6 threads.
If you play multiplayer with many participants, then more threads are good.
5800X mainly gives you 4 threads more.
Single thread performance is the most important cpu factor for gaming.
On your 6600K run the CPU-Z bench and look at the single thread rating.
You should get something like 518.
https://valid.x86.fr/bench/k0kyrp
You can see what other processors can do.



You would want a Z690 or B660 based DDR4 motherboard.

The suggestion for the CPU I believe I'll follow. Based on what I read the Z690 is needed for overclocking which may be a route I will go down later as I did with my current.
Though both the CPU and Z690 cost a bit more than my initial parts, it's probably a good cost to take based on the CPU benchmarks you posted.

Do you really need more than 16gb of ram?
Most will not unless you are multitasking while gaming.

Intel does not depend on fast ram for performance.
Your currentDDR4 ram is fine. No need to change it out initially. See how you do first.
If you decide that you want 32gb, then you will want a 32gb replacement kit.
Adding another 16gb is not guaranteed to work; ram must be matched to work properly.

Point taken. A good spot to save on cost. Thanks

GTX3070ti would be a great card for gaming.
Only if you were to contemplate 4k resolution gaming would you want more.
But, I think I would hold on to the current gpu just a bit; it seems that with the advent of intel discrete cards coming and the decline of mining, graphics cards pricing should get better.

Your 650w psu should do the job:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
But, it seems that the 3000 series cards can have high temporary power spikes so possibly a stronger psu might be warranted.

Are the expectations that intel will be able to compete with the AMD and Nvidia? I was also wondering if I could expect some price drops when 4000-series start coming out.

I feel like the past year I've been waiting for prices to drop and now have seen some actual progress (3070 Ti finally available at 1000 euros after being around 1400 euros early last year) and am worried prices would go up again. But I guess no one can promise anything about the future.

I am also a bit scared about PSUs since I remember that they are some of the parts you shouldn't skimp on since they can fry your PC if they fail. Would you recommend then to upgrade to a 750W PSU or are my worries unfounded?

You can probably reuse your hyper cooler if you kept all of the other mounting parts.
It was a decent cooler that was very cheap at the time.(nasty to install properly; I did it once)

I would plan on a better cooler, regardless.
Modern processors are binned and designed to turbo up without the need or benefit from overclocking.
To do so, the cpu temperature must be relatively cool.

I love the noctua coolers.
Noctua keeps a list of which coolers are suitable for which processors.
Here is the list for the i5-12600K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i5-12600K-1581
There is a similar list for the 5600x.

Some air coolers will have clearance issues with tall ram.
Best to look at low profile ram like corsair LPX.

Any specific cooler you would recommend out of the list? I remember last time with coolers I went with what people recommended since it's more of a thing if you're into heavy overclocking but otherwise doesn't affect performance that much. Is that the right attitude to have?

The longer you are willing to wait, the more likely DDR 5 will become a plausible option...it's roughly triple the price of DDR 4 now. No one knows for sure when that gap might close.

I'm in your shoes with a 6600K and facing some of the same questions as you.

DDR 5 might not be much lower for 7 to 10 months and we might see 13th generation Raptor Lake by then.

If your budget is semi-tight, I'd likely cut back on 32 GB RAM and put that money toward a better cooler and maybe some quality case fans.

I've heard about DDR5 for a while, I feel, but I don't really know the difference. Does it affect gaming performance?

This Should be a good place to start. Note that if you want all new great quality parts this is about how much it will cost from amazon.de;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor (€289.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler (€53.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€219.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€134.35 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€112.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 215 ATX Mid Tower Case (€94.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€129.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €1034.03
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-02-22 18:34 CET+0100

This is about as down-costed as I would go with a 12600k for your intentions though a 3070 TI is about as power hungry as I would go with a 12600k on a 750 watt PSU (amazon.de again);

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor (€289.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO CPU Cooler (€41.80 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€219.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€69.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial P2 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€79.98 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: BitFenix Nova Mesh SE ATX Mid Tower Case (€46.14 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€96.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €842.46
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-02-22 18:38 CET+0100

This is a dowcosted 12400f build that would not be as fast as the 12600k but is very competitive with the 5600x and save a fair bit;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (€180.63 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer 34 eSports DUO CPU Cooler (€41.80 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Motherboard: MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€169.85 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€69.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial P2 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€79.98 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: BitFenix Nova Mesh SE ATX Mid Tower Case (€46.14 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€96.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €684.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-02-22 18:43 CET+0100

Thanks for the builds! I am hoping to reuse my hard drives (even though I don't think my SSDs are NVME) + case at least or is there a need to change the case?
When it comes to the mobos, are all Z690 mobos pretty much equal? I am thinking that for example this mobo:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/MSI-PRO-Z690-DDR4-Motherboard/dp/B09HK6VKNX/ref=sr_1_14?crid=3FWCOKPYK4WX0&keywords=z690&qid=1645550210&s=computers&sprefix=z690,computers,160&sr=1-14

Same brand but slightly cheaper. Only difference seems to be lack of wifi.

With the PSU, I currently have a Seasonic SSR-650RM Active (650 Watt, ATX 12V). Do you think that will be stretching it with a 3070 Ti + i5-12600k? I am a bit scared about PSUs since I remember that they are some of the parts you shouldn't skimp on since they can fry your PC if they fail.

 

[helper800]

Thanks for the builds! I am hoping to reuse my hard drives (even though I don't think my SSDs are NVME) + case at least or is there a need to change the case?
When it comes to the mobos, are all Z690 mobos pretty much equal? I am thinking that for example this mobo:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/MSI-PRO-Z690-DDR4-Motherboard/dp/B09HK6VKNX/ref=sr_1_14?crid=3FWCOKPYK4WX0&keywords=z690&qid=1645550210&s=computers&sprefix=z690,computers,160&sr=1-14

Same brand but slightly cheaper. Only difference seems to be lack of wifi.

With the PSU, I currently have a Seasonic SSR-650RM Active (650 Watt, ATX 12V). Do you think that will be stretching it with a 3070 Ti + i5-12600k? I am a bit scared about PSUs since I remember that they are some of the parts you shouldn't skimp on since they can fry your PC if they fail.

As far as the motherboards go the difference between the z690 I posted and that one is just a wi-fi and bluetooth card that is included. That particular MSI board is a fantastic value for its features. Tons of USB slots, good VRMs, and NVMe slots. I have used that motherboard in a build before and its been great.

If you are to reuse your case please post the exact case model number to check for any issue if any.

I would be concerned for a 650w PSU even in it was a good Seasonic with a 3070 ti and a 12600k. Those parts can cause 500+ watts of load easily. As others have stated, Nvidia GPUs tend to have high transient spikes of 400 watts or more depending on the GPU for a small amount of time. This can cause issues on lower wattage PSUs and on some older Seasonics can even cause OCP to trip and shut down the PC though the amount this happed only affected a specific Seasonic Focus PSU line if I remember properly. The PSU is the most important part of a PC in my opinion. You got a decent Seasonic in the past so your old system did well by it. If you keep getting tried and true PSUs there should be nothing to be scared of. Though the caveat is that even the best of PSUs can fail, though they typically don't take parts with them if their protections work properly. Most really good PSUs come with 10 year warranties though just because one does that is not an indicator of its quality and you should rely on reviews for specific PSU models.

 

[LordOfLostSocks]

As far as the motherboards go the difference between the z690 I posted and that one is just a wi-fi and bluetooth card that is included. That particular MSI board is a fantastic value for its features. Tons of USB slots, good VRMs, and NVMe slots. I have used that motherboard in a build before and its been great.

If you are to reuse your case please post the exact case model number to check for any issue if any.

I would be concerned for a 650w PSU even in it was a good Seasonic with a 3070 ti and a 12600k. Those parts can cause 500+ watts of load easily. As others have stated, Nvidia GPUs tend to have high transient spikes of 400 watts or more depending on the GPU for a small amount of time. This can cause issues on lower wattage PSUs and on some older Seasonics can even cause OCP to trip and shut down the PC though the amount this happed only affected a specific Seasonic Focus PSU line if I remember properly. The PSU is the most important part of a PC in my opinion. You got a decent Seasonic in the past so your old system did well by it. If you keep getting tried and true PSUs there should be nothing to be scared of. Though the caveat is that even the best of PSUs can fail, though they typically don't take parts with them if their protections work properly. Most really good PSUs come with 10 year warranties though just because one does that is not an indicator of its quality and you should rely on reviews for specific PSU models.

Thanks for the info on the motherboard.

It's been a while since I bought the case, but it's called "Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition Midi Tower" and looks to my eyes exactly the same as below cases, but maybe there has been some subtle changes I don't notice in the past 6 years that I've had the case.

Define R5

www.fractal-design.com

https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Sho...actal-design-define-r5-black-atx-kotelo-musta
(lists model number FD-CA-DEF-R5-BK )

Got it, I will look to then getting a quality PSU with minimum 750W

 

[helper800]

It's been a while since I bought the case, but it's called "Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition Midi Tower" and looks to my eyes exactly the same as below cases, but maybe there has been some subtle changes I don't notice in the past 6 years that I've had the case.

Define R5

www.fractal-design.com

https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Sho...actal-design-define-r5-black-atx-kotelo-musta
(lists model number FD-CA-DEF-R5-BK )

That case can work, but note that it does not have a mesh front to easily pull fresh air into the case. This means that the CPU, GPU, and motherboard VRMs may run much warmer. The case I posted in the first build is an excellent more modern airflow focused case if you change your mind. The case I posted in the cost reduced builds is not the best but most likely better than what you currently have.

 

[Why_Me]

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/B660M-BAZOOKA-DDR4-Motherboard-Micro-ATX/dp/B09NTPPSBP/

MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4 €172.36

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B660M-BAZOOKA-DDR4

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-i5-12400F-Generation-Desktop-Processor/dp/B09MDFH5HY/
Intel Core i5-12400F €180.63

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...2400f-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

Reviews of that cpu w/benchmarks.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i5-12400-review

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P_AGv-DJbU