[SOLVED] Gaming related: High-end rig does not pull it weight, and the problem might be CPU-related.

[Drevsvy]

Hello everyone.

Long read ahead, but I appreciate your help - A lot!
I would really need your help, as I have been googling, asking and watching a lot of solutions and nothing seems to fix my issue, including the friend of mine who built my pc for me.
Please mind, that the post will relate to gaming. I will write benchmarks so people with no knowledge in these games can see how much I underperform.

I will split the post in the following sections:
1: My specs
2: My problems
3: The benchmarks
4: What I have been trying to do
5: Things I have considered or thought about

1: Specs
My specs are as follows:
GeForce MSI RTX2070
AMD Ryzen 7 2700x Eight-CRTe Processor, 16 CPU 3.7 gHz
CORSAIR 16GB RAMKit 2X8GB DDR4 3200MHz 2x288Dimm 16gb ram (Some high speed ones)
MSI B450 TOMAHAWK Mainboard Sockel AM4
SSD 1024GB Samsung 860 Evo SATA/M.2
CORSAIR RMx Series RM750x (80+ Gold)

PC is built by myself and a friend of mine. On desktop.

2+3: Problems and benchmarks
I have noticed that my computer severely underperforms in my competitive games. It might even underperform in high-end games, but I have no way of benchmarking. I simply assume so, based on the following experiences.
Do not judge - I play more than just these - But CS:GO and League of Legends are games in particular where this damage is heavy.

I play CS:GO/LoL in "Competitive" settings. This means all settings mostly low, native resolutions and some autoconfigs to maximize power.
I sometimes dip below the dangerzone of 144fps (My native refresh rate), and rarely 100 mark. The average seems, according to a FPS benchmark, to be 222 fps.
(Is more required for 144hz? A long discussion - Keep on topic regarding this, as it is a competitive setting, and higher framerate than refresh-rate does feel smoother =

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjWSRTYV8e0
)
My friend with a 1080 gfx and a AMD Ryzen 1600 runs this same benchmark at +300 fps. My old rig with a MSI 970 and i5-4690 ran it at 240. Only difference are resolutions as I run native 1080p and he runs 840.
But my dips in the game are what worries me. He never dips, however I do. With a far more superior CPU in a CPU intensive game, this shouldn't be the case, right?
(For the interested, my autoexec for CS:GO are as follows: -novid -high -tickrate 128 -threads 16 -console -mat_queue_mode "2")

Similarely, I just came from a game of League of Legends, playing in native resolution at low-medium settings. Mind you, with a MSI 2070 and AMD Ryzen 2700x, floating at an average 120fps. Dipped below a worrying 80 during a teamfight.
My friend on a Macbook, allthough all settings at low (Almost like me..!), ran at an average of 140 fps.

This is the point where I decided that something was absolutely wrong. And where I hope you can help..

4: What I have tried
I do not know for sure yet what causes these issues, but it looks more like a CPU-issue rather than my RTX.

• I have updated my graphics driver in Geforce Experience from when I installed my RTX 2070 over the previous GTX 970 (More on that in chapter 5).
• I have ran several autoexec's to and seen guides on how to "maximize" effort during loads, but most of them are already active.
• I have talked with my friend who built 90% of the PC, who believes it is a possible software issue, maybe that my CPU won't work at full load.
• I have tried running AMD-apps such as system monitor and overdrive. The overdrive-app actually gives me a blue screen with the sad smiley on every boot, so I have not tried it yet.

- I have NOT measured temps through an app. However, during CS:GO and LoL my pc is almost STONE COLD. In more intensive games such as Killing Floor 2, Squad and Arma 3, it gets hot - As it should during those loads.

5: Things I have considered or thought about

• My friend mentioned that when you go from GTX to RTX, there are sometimes issues with drivers.
• I fear that I have installed my CPU incorrectly. MY friend claims it wouldn't boot otherwise and that I shouldn't worry.
• I have, as mentioned, not measured data, since the app wasn't working.
• That my CPU wont overload to compensate for lifespan (However this contradicts why it gets hot during those other games - But maybe that was the GPU getting hot?)
• That my GPU is pushing the CPU, or in general, the system into "idle" mode, albeit it is too strong. As in: Run all settings on low can impact perfomance, due to GPU idling, rather than running it on high.

Here is a picture of my PC's CPU perfomance in CS:GO after the "Benchmarking". Please note how it is not even hitting 70%. The Graphics card is down at <10% load.

https://imgur.com/a/gegUp8g

View: https://imgur.com/a/gegUp8g



This is all I have for now. Please note, I am not super great with hardware nor the software to support said hardware.
I sincerely hope you might be able to solute this problem for me.

Any spelling mistakes or errors, sorry, I am no native speaker of english.
Best wishes - Drevsvy

 

[Darkbreeze]

My friend mentioned that when you go from GTX to RTX, there are sometimes issues with drivers.

True. Try a clean install.

How To - How to perform a CLEAN install of your video card drivers.

Updated 9-19-19 How to do a CLEAN install of your graphics card drivers using the Wagnard tools Display Driver Uninstaller A major issue on many systems is the presence of multiple graphics card drivers or drivers that have been incompletely uninstalled followed by the installation of...

forums.tomshardware.com

I fear that I have installed my CPU incorrectly. MY friend claims it wouldn't boot otherwise and that I shouldn't worry.

False. There are plenty of incorrectly installed CPUs that have resulted in bent pins on the CPU (AMD) or motherboard (Intel) that can POST and boot just fine, but have any of a variety of problems ranging from minor to can't POST at all, and anything in between. When in doubt, remove the cooler and CPU and check for bent pins. Obviously, that will require cleaning and applying new paste whether there is a problem or not.

Could also be thermal throttling. Check to see that CPU core or package temps are not exceeding 80°C at any point whether gaming or running stress tests.

If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the chipset, storage controllers, audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates.


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory tab. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.


Fourth,

Make sure the problem is not just a bad cable or the wrong cable IF this is a no display issue. If it is NOT related to a lack of display signal, then skip to the next step.

This happens a lot. Try a different cable or a different TYPE of cable. Sometimes there can be issues with the monitor or card not supporting a specific specification such as HDMI 1.4 vs HDMI 2.0, or even an HDMI output stops working but the Displayport or DVI output still works fine on the graphics card. Always worth checking the cable and trying other cables because cables get run over, bent, bent pins or simply were cheap quality to begin with and something as simple as trying a different cable or different monitor might be all that is required to solve your issue.


The last thing we want to look at,

for now anyhow, is the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.

Clean install guide using the DDU​

 

[Drevsvy]

Thank you. This seems very complicated for me, especially diving into my BIOS.. But I will attempt anyway. I'll try your fixes in the order you present them.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Let me know. Ask any questions you are uncertain about.

 

[Drevsvy]

Let me know. Ask any questions you are uncertain about.

Hello.

First of all, thank you for all of your help regarding my issue; I have done several things to improve my perfomance and have gotten various results.

Let me first summarise my own efforts:
1: I have cleaned my GPU drivers and installed them once again for my RTX, as per request.
2: I have installed new drivers for my motherboard, as per request.
3: I have enabled XMP mode 2, which allows my RAM to run at 3200 mHz rather than 2133, which I was told through my userbenchmark.
(Here is my first benchmark on the website = https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/17967913 ) - Yesterday
(Here is my second benchmark on the website = https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/17984189 ) - Just 5 minutes ago.

Note how the memory kit went up by a LOT. However, my graphics card still under performs heavily according to the site. Now to my

Here are my discoveries:
After adding XMP profile 2 yesterday, my CS:GO benchmark went from 222 fps to 272. Today, after doing all my efforts, it only went up to 277. A minor improvement.
However, I still dipped faaaaaairly low during benchmark, and later tested my "new reboot" in a casual gamemode; on the map de_nuke. Dipped below 140 at some point.
Overall not satisfied.

On League of Legends, the experience is different. I played a game of ARAM, and midway put on HWMonitor (Actually since the start, but wanted readings from the game).
While having no data to back it up, it seemed like my FPS was far better, and never dipped below the 140-mark. More or less stayed constantly at +200 fps.
I have yet to test the game on a standard 5v5.
The readings from my HWMonitor can be found here - I hope you want see it through.

https://imgur.com/a/SxoDRJV

View: https://imgur.com/a/SxoDRJV


In conclusion
My PC performs much better than yesterday, especially since I ramped up the XMP. But only much better than the previous state.
Once again, seeing my userbenchmark and compairing my results with people having older components, I still am 100% definitive that my PC does not FULLY utilize it's pootential.
Yes - It does go high up. But when I hear that people with older CPU and GPU can push these two specific games at a margin of +10-90 fps in average (Especially CS:GO), it nuts me to think that I am not fully utilizing my PC.

Playable? Sure. Working as it should? I am not so sure.

Once again, thank you so much for your efforts and help.
But please take your time to check the HW readings or my new benchmarks, as my guts tells me that something is missing.

I am going to play Killing Floor 2, all maxed out, DayZ Standalone and CS:GO later this evening.
I will attempt to carry out some HW readings for future references.

Thank you so much, best regards
Drevsy

 

[Karadjgne]

Some background.

CSGO is a 2 thread game. So doesn't matter if it's an 8c/16t cpu or a 4c/4t cpu, the results will be the same, only 2 threads used as the game code itself doesn't make provisions for higher core usage. It also relies heavily on per core speeds and IPC (instructions per clock) to attain higher fps. My i7 has slightly worse IPC than your Ryzen, but at 4.6GHz has faster clocks, so overall it has a very slight edge. I get 300fps±.

Regarding fps, that limit is set by the cpu. The cpu is responsible for pre-rendering the game code, first, before shipping the frames to the gpu. So that limit is finite. My i7, 300fps± is what it sends to the gpu. The gpu is responsible for putting that 300fps on screen, according to resolution and detail settings. With a weak gpu, it might not be able to do so at ultra, maybe just 200fps, but changing that to low might get the full 300. A strong gpu will easily put that 300 fps onscreen at ultra, but changing to low will not increase the fps. The gpu can only put up what it's given.

A 2070 is more than capable of ultra at 300fps, my gtx970 puts up 300fps at ultra. So playing 'competitive' mode at uber low settings across the board is nothing more than removing details, shadows, face gen, chargen details or other distractions, and won't affect your fps.

If it is affecting fps, you have gpu issues somewhere, whether that's in drivers or monitor hookup or even software conflicts with windows.

Simple test to determine what you believe is holding you back is change detail levels. If at low you get @ 277fps, max out ultra settings. If fps drops drastically then it's gpu issue. If fps really doesn't change, then either the cpu is maxing out ability, or something is bottlenecking its ability to pre-render the frames, setting a lower than expected level.

 

[Drevsvy]

Some background.

CSGO is a 2 thread game. So doesn't matter if it's an 8c/16t cpu or a 4c/4t cpu, the results will be the same, only 2 threads used as the game code itself doesn't make provisions for higher core usage. It also relies heavily on per core speeds and IPC (instructions per clock) to attain higher fps. My i7 has slightly worse IPC than your Ryzen, but at 4.6GHz has faster clocks, so overall it has a very slight edge. I get 300fps±.

Regarding fps, that limit is set by the cpu. The cpu is responsible for pre-rendering the game code, first, before shipping the frames to the gpu. So that limit is finite. My i7, 300fps± is what it sends to the gpu. The gpu is responsible for putting that 300fps on screen, according to resolution and detail settings. With a weak gpu, it might not be able to do so at ultra, maybe just 200fps, but changing that to low might get the full 300. A strong gpu will easily put that 300 fps onscreen at ultra, but changing to low will not increase the fps. The gpu can only put up what it's given.

A 2070 is more than capable of ultra at 300fps, my gtx970 puts up 300fps at ultra. So playing 'competitive' mode at uber low settings across the board is nothing more than removing details, shadows, face gen, chargen details or other distractions, and won't affect your fps.

If it is affecting fps, you have gpu issues somewhere, whether that's in drivers or monitor hookup or even software conflicts with windows.

Simple test to determine what you believe is holding you back is change detail levels. If at low you get @ 277fps, max out ultra settings. If fps drops drastically then it's gpu issue. If fps really doesn't change, then either the cpu is maxing out ability, or something is bottlenecking its ability to pre-render the frames, setting a lower than expected level.

Reading your post makes me irritated. My old card was a 970 aswell, however with a i5-4690. When people with your PC say they get 300 on ultra, it makes me sad.
I just went into a deathmatch on de_mirage. I dip below 150 when I look over A-site from CT. Put it up on high? Dips even lower.

A guy from Reddit recommended MSI afterburner. But thanks for the tips. My monitor is hooked up via D-Link. Could that be an issue?

[EDIT] - Dont get me wrong. At certain places I have the classic 300 fps (My limit is 300). But as soon as I overview certain spots, smokes or effects happens, it dips. Also when I open the scoreboard.

[EDIT] - What I ment with this message is that it seems like a GPU issue. I have downloaded the latest drivers. What could be a further issue?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Memory could. Download and install CPU-Z. Take pictures of the Memory and SPD tabs. On the SPD tab, on the drop down menu, select one of the slots you have memory installed in so the details are populated in the specifications fields. It's possible you are not seeing dual channel operation on your sticks. That can definitely affect CPU performance. Also, if the full 16GB isn't being recognized, and that happens a lot, that could be relevant as well.

Are you getting your graphics card driver package from the MSI website OR the Nvidia website? Should be getting it from Nvidia, not MSI.

It would be my advice to also stop using HWmonitor and start using HWinfo. Here is my spiel on that. There are people who will disagree, but thousands of threads where it plays true can't be wrong and there are a good many veteran members here and around the other various forums with decades of experience and engineering degrees, who agree.

Monitoring software​

HWmonitor, Open hardware monitor, Realtemp, Speccy, Speedfan, Windows utilities, CPU-Z, NZXT CAM and most of the bundled motherboard utilities are often not the best choice as they are not always accurate. Some are actually grossly inaccurate, especially with certain chipsets or specific sensors that for whatever reason they tend to not like or work well with. I've found HWinfo or CoreTemp to be the MOST accurate with the broadest range of chipsets and sensors. They are also almost religiously kept up to date.

CoreTemp is great for just CPU thermals including core temps or distance to TJmax on older AMD platforms.

HWinfo is great for pretty much EVERYTHING, including CPU thermals, core loads, core temps, package temps, GPU sensors, HDD and SSD sensors, motherboard chipset and VRM sensor, all of it. When starting HWinfo after installation, always check the box next to "sensors only" and de-select the box next to "summary".


Run HWinfo and look at system voltages and other sensor readings.

Monitoring temperatures, core speeds, voltages, clock ratios and other reported sensor data can often help to pick out an issue right off the bat. HWinfo is a good way to get that data and in my experience tends to be more accurate than some of the other utilities available. CPU-Z, GPU-Z and Core Temp all have their uses but HWinfo tends to have it all laid out in a more convenient fashion so you can usually see what one sensor is reporting while looking at another instead of having to flip through various tabs that have specific groupings, plus, it is extremely rare for HWinfo to not report the correct sensor values under the correct sensor listings, or misreport other information. Utilities like HWmonitor, Openhardware monitor and Speccy, tend to COMMONLY misreport sensor data, or not report it at all.

After installation, run the utility and when asked, choose "sensors only". The other window options have some use but in most cases everything you need will be located in the sensors window. If you're taking screenshots to post for troubleshooting, it will most likely require taking three screenshots and scrolling down the sensors window between screenshots in order to capture them all.

It is most helpful if you can take a series of HWinfo screenshots at idle, after a cold boot to the desktop. Open HWinfo and wait for all of the Windows startup processes to complete. Usually about four or five minutes should be plenty. Take screenshots of all the HWinfo sensors.

Next, run something demanding like Prime95 version 26.6 or Heaven benchmark. Take another set of screenshots while either of those is running so we can see what the hardware is doing while under a load.

*Download HWinfo


For temperature monitoring only, I feel Core Temp is the most accurate and also offers a quick visual reference for core speed, load and CPU voltage:


*Download Core Temp


Posting screenshots, when requested, is helpful so WE can see what is going on as well and you can learn how to do that here:

How to post images on Tom's hardware forums​

 

[Drevsvy]

Hello, sorry for a belated response. I have been busy reading through everything people have sent in, and been bench-marking a bit.

TL;DR
Game works MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than before, and I am super-mega happy with everything you guys have helped me with so far.
But it still seems like my computer is holding back some of its power, considering the high-end components compared to some of my friends.

Please read EXPLANATION and RESPONSE 1 to understand why I am confused.

EXPLANATION:

I have played 2 full games of CS:GO monitoring with tools provided as per requests from you guys in here; Even before they were mentioned by Darkbreeze (Thanks anyway).
Here are the stats.

https://imgur.com/a/m0LB3p1

View: https://imgur.com/a/m0LB3p1


Note how my GPU usage never maxed over 57%, and my temps are relatively low, as per my %-usage.
I could clearly feel like it was a new game, with more often staying at the +290 fps mark, and not dropping as frequently.
However, at certain spots with a lot of "activity"/Visuals, like standing at T-spawn on cache, or on balcony overlooking B-site on Overpass (CS:GO players can relate to the scenario), my frames would drop, sometimes to values as low as 190. And 150 when the train arrived...! (However, fluctuating heavily at these points and then averaging at 200 again).
Once again; Playable. Sure. But optimal? No.

As per screenshot, it is visible that my GPU never uses above 55% of it's max.
(This confused me however, as my GPU clocked at 1410mHz while in game, but its max value peaked at 1840 mHz... How?)

But my friends rocks a 960, which compared to my 2070 is weak. And runs an i3-8350k (Which is good) and clocks it at 4.5.
His ZCPU and ZGPU are shown in this picture:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/541697340784771073/594245532227076273/spec.PNG

My friend had a LOWER average fps than me; But overviewing B-site on Overpass he would average higher than me.
And mind me, while his single core perfomance is stronger than mine, wouldn't it make sense that my GPU is underperfoming/choosing not to use its full potential based on the screenshots?


RESPONSES:

Simple test to determine what you believe is holding you back is change detail levels. If at low you get @ 277fps, max out ultra settings. If fps drops drastically then it's gpu issue. If fps really doesn't change, then either the cpu is maxing out ability, or something is bottlenecking its ability to pre-render the frames, setting a lower than expected level.

I tried the in-game benchmark feature aswell as changing settings in-game, FPS drastically dropped when going from low to high, so your issue explained seems to be my case. But looking at the benchmarking with zGPU it seems like I am only using 57%......... at max. (Sometimes ran 30-40% mid game).

 

[Drevsvy]

Memory could. Download and install CPU-Z. Take pictures of the Memory and SPD tabs. On the SPD tab, on the drop down menu, select one of the slots you have memory installed in so the details are populated in the specifications fields. It's possible you are not seeing dual channel operation on your sticks. That can definitely affect CPU performance. Also, if the full 16GB isn't being recognized, and that happens a lot, that could be relevant as well.

Are you getting your graphics card driver package from the MSI website OR the Nvidia website? Should be getting it from Nvidia, not MSI.

It would be my advice to also stop using HWmonitor and start using HWinfo. Here is my spiel on that. There are people who will disagree, but thousands of threads where it plays true can't be wrong and there are a good many veteran members here and around the other various forums with decades of experience and engineering degrees, who agree.

Monitoring software​

HWmonitor, Open hardware monitor, Realtemp, Speccy, Speedfan, Windows utilities, CPU-Z, NZXT CAM and most of the bundled motherboard utilities are often not the best choice as they are not always accurate. Some are actually grossly inaccurate, especially with certain chipsets or specific sensors that for whatever reason they tend to not like or work well with. I've found HWinfo or CoreTemp to be the MOST accurate with the broadest range of chipsets and sensors. They are also almost religiously kept up to date.

CoreTemp is great for just CPU thermals including core temps or distance to TJmax on older AMD platforms.

HWinfo is great for pretty much EVERYTHING, including CPU thermals, core loads, core temps, package temps, GPU sensors, HDD and SSD sensors, motherboard chipset and VRM sensor, all of it. When starting HWinfo after installation, always check the box next to "sensors only" and de-select the box next to "summary".


Run HWinfo and look at system voltages and other sensor readings.

Monitoring temperatures, core speeds, voltages, clock ratios and other reported sensor data can often help to pick out an issue right off the bat. HWinfo is a good way to get that data and in my experience tends to be more accurate than some of the other utilities available. CPU-Z, GPU-Z and Core Temp all have their uses but HWinfo tends to have it all laid out in a more convenient fashion so you can usually see what one sensor is reporting while looking at another instead of having to flip through various tabs that have specific groupings, plus, it is extremely rare for HWinfo to not report the correct sensor values under the correct sensor listings, or misreport other information. Utilities like HWmonitor, Openhardware monitor and Speccy, tend to COMMONLY misreport sensor data, or not report it at all.

After installation, run the utility and when asked, choose "sensors only". The other window options have some use but in most cases everything you need will be located in the sensors window. If you're taking screenshots to post for troubleshooting, it will most likely require taking three screenshots and scrolling down the sensors window between screenshots in order to capture them all.

It is most helpful if you can take a series of HWinfo screenshots at idle, after a cold boot to the desktop. Open HWinfo and wait for all of the Windows startup processes to complete. Usually about four or five minutes should be plenty. Take screenshots of all the HWinfo sensors.

Next, run something demanding like Prime95 version 26.6 or Heaven benchmark. Take another set of screenshots while either of those is running so we can see what the hardware is doing while under a load.

*Download HWinfo


For temperature monitoring only, I feel Core Temp is the most accurate and also offers a quick visual reference for core speed, load and CPU voltage:


*Download Core Temp


Posting screenshots, when requested, is helpful so WE can see what is going on as well and you can learn how to do that here:

How to post images on Tom's hardware forums​

Thanks for this.

I can post some screenshots of idle-usage after I've installed your two requested apps. . Seems like both memory sticks work, but trust me; I know nothing!
Contrary to you saying the other apps are missleading I am sending you screenshots of the memories anyway for now...!

I will do as you say per my next post. Mind, I do not have dual monitors in my current setup (Lack of a second monitor that supports D-Link).
Will it taper with the "heavy load" measure?

You will have the requested info here in a few minutes time as I get everything up and running.
- Drevsy

{edit}
Here are the pictures from zCPU regarding my 2 slots which seems to be connected allright.

https://imgur.com/a/0cQ8ouY

View: https://imgur.com/a/0cQ8ouY

Theres also a picture of HWinfo... I did not find the "utility" setting you spoke about.

Restarting PC now.. Wish me luck..!

 

[Drevsvy]

Memory could. Download and install CPU-Z. Take pictures of the Memory and SPD tabs. On the SPD tab, on the drop down menu, select one of the slots you have memory installed in so the details are populated in the specifications fields. It's possible you are not seeing dual channel operation on your sticks. That can definitely affect CPU performance. Also, if the full 16GB isn't being recognized, and that happens a lot, that could be relevant as well.

Are you getting your graphics card driver package from the MSI website OR the Nvidia website? Should be getting it from Nvidia, not MSI.

It would be my advice to also stop using HWmonitor and start using HWinfo. Here is my spiel on that. There are people who will disagree, but thousands of threads where it plays true can't be wrong and there are a good many veteran members here and around the other various forums with decades of experience and engineering degrees, who agree.

Monitoring software​

HWmonitor, Open hardware monitor, Realtemp, Speccy, Speedfan, Windows utilities, CPU-Z, NZXT CAM and most of the bundled motherboard utilities are often not the best choice as they are not always accurate. Some are actually grossly inaccurate, especially with certain chipsets or specific sensors that for whatever reason they tend to not like or work well with. I've found HWinfo or CoreTemp to be the MOST accurate with the broadest range of chipsets and sensors. They are also almost religiously kept up to date.

CoreTemp is great for just CPU thermals including core temps or distance to TJmax on older AMD platforms.

HWinfo is great for pretty much EVERYTHING, including CPU thermals, core loads, core temps, package temps, GPU sensors, HDD and SSD sensors, motherboard chipset and VRM sensor, all of it. When starting HWinfo after installation, always check the box next to "sensors only" and de-select the box next to "summary".


Run HWinfo and look at system voltages and other sensor readings.

Monitoring temperatures, core speeds, voltages, clock ratios and other reported sensor data can often help to pick out an issue right off the bat. HWinfo is a good way to get that data and in my experience tends to be more accurate than some of the other utilities available. CPU-Z, GPU-Z and Core Temp all have their uses but HWinfo tends to have it all laid out in a more convenient fashion so you can usually see what one sensor is reporting while looking at another instead of having to flip through various tabs that have specific groupings, plus, it is extremely rare for HWinfo to not report the correct sensor values under the correct sensor listings, or misreport other information. Utilities like HWmonitor, Openhardware monitor and Speccy, tend to COMMONLY misreport sensor data, or not report it at all.

After installation, run the utility and when asked, choose "sensors only". The other window options have some use but in most cases everything you need will be located in the sensors window. If you're taking screenshots to post for troubleshooting, it will most likely require taking three screenshots and scrolling down the sensors window between screenshots in order to capture them all.

It is most helpful if you can take a series of HWinfo screenshots at idle, after a cold boot to the desktop. Open HWinfo and wait for all of the Windows startup processes to complete. Usually about four or five minutes should be plenty. Take screenshots of all the HWinfo sensors.

Next, run something demanding like Prime95 version 26.6 or Heaven benchmark. Take another set of screenshots while either of those is running so we can see what the hardware is doing while under a load.

*Download HWinfo


For temperature monitoring only, I feel Core Temp is the most accurate and also offers a quick visual reference for core speed, load and CPU voltage:


*Download Core Temp


Posting screenshots, when requested, is helpful so WE can see what is going on as well and you can learn how to do that here:

How to post images on Tom's hardware forums​

Forgot to reply to your questions, I am so sorry!

1: I am downloading my drivers from NVIDIA GeForce experience and NOT MSI.
2: I have sent screenshots from zCPU regarding my memory can be seen here

https://imgur.com/a/0cQ8ouY

View: https://imgur.com/a/0cQ8ouY

3: I have installed your requested app as per my previous message.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ahh, can't go by usage, it's misleading. Under normal circumstances a cpu/gpu always work at 100%. Usage is the amount of resources required by the cpu/gpu to get that 100%.
CSGO is a prime example. Uses 2 threads only. You have an 8c/16t cpu. Even if the game maxed out those 2 threads 100%, it won't use a 3rd thread, the game isn't optimized or coded to do so. The other 14 threads will be doing windows stuff, background, motherboard stuff etc. So 100% x2 + 30% x14 = 620, /16 = @ 39% usage. And that's just a rough guesstimate as there's other factors at work such as bandwidth usage amount, L3 cache fill etc. So on your monster thread cpu, expect simpler games like CSGO to use very little of the actual ability of the cpu, but that doesn't stop the game from bottlenecking due to high % on low thread counts. By the same token, on a quad core cpu, that same load would be almost a 70% usage. It uses a far greater amount of the cpus capacity, but doesn't change the cpus 100% ability.

Same applies to the gpu, it's got massive potential but cannot put on screen any more frames than the cpu gives it. It'll put all those frames up as fast as it can, but that doesn't change the actual ability, it's just not using its full capacity.

Think of it this way. As you sit there typing, you'll use 100% of the required muscles to move your fingers and you'll type as fast (typically) as you normally do. Now even though you are using 100% of the muscles, you most definitely are not using 100% of the muscle! You aren't slamming the keys with all your fingers strength. (100% usage) Why? Because it's not needed. You only need push the keys as hard as required (30% usage) . If you change the game (keyboard) to something like an uber hard push mechanical (CSGO to BF5) and now require 70% of your fingers strength, you'll still type just as fast, but hit the keys harder. Still using all 100% of the same muscles.

Usage is only a reliable indicator when there's high % of usage in a situation that wouldnt/shouldn't require it. Like if that 2700x or 2070 was seeing anything close to 100% on anything but 2 threads.

Oh, and my gtx970 is running @ 124% OC, so that does change things a little.

There are things that do affect the cpu, and you'll find some of those in nvidia control panel, things like pre-rendered frames is default 3, should change that to 1. In windows, disable the Xbox DVR stuff, gamebar too as those definitely have an adverse affect on CSGO in particular.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I'm also sorry, I should have been more clear. When using HWinfo, do NOT use the "summary screens". Uncheck that box and never look at it again. Check the box next to "sensors only". It usually takes about three screenshots, scrolling down between shots, to capture all of the sensors.

For CPU-Z, I also need to see the Memory tab.

I would make sure you have the latest chipset drivers installed. These.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450

And I do not see where you ever followed through on updating the BIOS. If you did, I appologize, but I see your response after I suggested it and you addressed everything but that. That is and should be #1 priority on any Ryzen system if it's never been done or hasn't been done in the past year.

Also, you would be wise to download Ryzen master (AMD Overdrive is NOT used for Ryzen) and see what your CPU core and package temps are doing when these FPS dips happen. The fact that your "system is stone cold" means nothing. You can't "feel" or "tell" when the CPU cores are hot. They can go from from acceptable temps to 110°C and back to below 80°C in two seconds. And that's long enough to cause your frame rates to tank if it's throttling.

 

[Drevsvy]

Ahh, can't go by usage, it's misleading. Under normal circumstances a cpu/gpu always work at 100%. Usage is the amount of resources required by the cpu/gpu to get that 100%.
CSGO is a prime example. Uses 2 threads only. You have an 8c/16t cpu. Even if the game maxed out those 2 threads 100%, it won't use a 3rd thread, the game isn't optimized or coded to do so. The other 14 threads will be doing windows stuff, background, motherboard stuff etc. So 100% x2 + 30% x14 = 620, /16 = @ 39% usage. And that's just a rough guesstimate as there's other factors at work such as bandwidth usage amount, L3 cache fill etc. So on your monster thread cpu, expect simpler games like CSGO to use very little of the actual ability of the cpu, but that doesn't stop the game from bottlenecking due to high % on low thread counts. By the same token, on a quad core cpu, that same load would be almost a 70% usage. It uses a far greater amount of the cpus capacity, but doesn't change the cpus 100% ability.

Same applies to the gpu, it's got massive potential but cannot put on screen any more frames than the cpu gives it. It'll put all those frames up as fast as it can, but that doesn't change the actual ability, it's just not using its full capacity.

Think of it this way. As you sit there typing, you'll use 100% of the required muscles to move your fingers and you'll type as fast (typically) as you normally do. Now even though you are using 100% of the muscles, you most definitely are not using 100% of the muscle! You aren't slamming the keys with all your fingers strength. (100% usage) Why? Because it's not needed. You only need push the keys as hard as required (30% usage) . If you change the game (keyboard) to something like an uber hard push mechanical (CSGO to BF5) and now require 70% of your fingers strength, you'll still type just as fast, but hit the keys harder. Still using all 100% of the same muscles.

Usage is only a reliable indicator when there's high % of usage in a situation that wouldnt/shouldn't require it. Like if that 2700x or 2070 was seeing anything close to 100% on anything but 2 threads.

Oh, and my gtx970 is running @ 124% OC, so that does change things a little.

There are things that do affect the cpu, and you'll find some of those in nvidia control panel, things like pre-rendered frames is default 3, should change that to 1. In windows, disable the Xbox DVR stuff, gamebar too as those definitely have an adverse affect on CSGO in particular.

Thank you for explaining the usage - It makes sense to why the numbers are low, but my dumb question is; Why won't it use more if there 'obviously' is room for it (Considering my drops related to GPU at certain areas). Using the same rhetoric, with the fingers, that would mean I am not typing with full capacity and sometimes miss keys? If it makes sense what I am trying to say. That I have drops and the usage isnt higher, means it could hold back? Sorry if I misunderstood u first time, I thought it made great sense.

Regarding the DVR stuff, it is removed. And my settings for CS:GO in Nvidia Geforce are set to, what I believe to be the most optimal settings, including your specific one.

Thanks in advance, and sorry if i misunderstood.

 

[Drevsvy]

I'm also sorry, I should have been more clear. When using HWinfo, do NOT use the "summary screens". Uncheck that box and never look at it again. Check the box next to "sensors only". It usually takes about three screenshots, scrolling down between shots, to capture all of the sensors.

For CPU-Z, I also need to see the Memory tab.

I would make sure you have the latest chipset drivers installed. These.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/b450

And I do not see where you ever followed through on updating the BIOS. If you did, I appologize, but I see your response after I suggested it and you addressed everything but that. That is and should be #1 priority on any Ryzen system if it's never been done or hasn't been done in the past year.

Also, you would be wise to download Ryzen master (AMD Overdrive is NOT used for Ryzen) and see what your CPU core and package temps are doing when these FPS dips happen. The fact that your "system is stone cold" means nothing. You can't "feel" or "tell" when the CPU cores are hot. They can go from from acceptable temps to 110°C and back to below 80°C in two seconds. And that's long enough to cause your frame rates to tank if it's throttling.

I'll try to be more clear. I have updated my BIOS, that is what I ment per this 2nd part:

Let me first summarise my own efforts:
1: I have cleaned my GPU drivers and installed them once again for my RTX, as per request.
2: I have installed new drivers for my motherboard, as per request.

Actually you made me confused if I updated bios or MB (or if it the same thing), but I downloaded something from my Motherboard provider, installed it correctly and it seems to work. This is what I installed:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450-TOMAHAWK#down-bios

Regarding my memory tab in CPU-Z:

https://imgur.com/a/c5tUely

View: https://imgur.com/a/c5tUely


And the overdrive issue explains a lot. I got the "blue smiley screen of death" anytime I would boot up overdrive. I will get Ryzen Master right now.
Should I install the chipset drivers now, or wait until you see the memory tab?

Thanks for all of your help. Doing the fresh reboot now, to give you the "starting" props of my system as per your last response.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Did you install from within windows, because if that's what you did, you likely DIDN'T do it. The BIOS generally needs to be updated from within the BIOS, not from the Windows desktop.

Go into your BIOS and go to the main page. See what BIOS version it says you have installed currently, or, go to any run or search box on the start menu and type in msinfo32 and hit enter. In the right hand panel that comes up see what BIOS version it says is installed.

Memory is running in dual channel, so THAT part is good. I would go ahead and install the chipset drivers now.

 

[Drevsvy]

Did you install from within windows, because if that's what you did, you likely DIDN'T do it. The BIOS generally needs to be updated from within the BIOS, not from the Windows desktop.

Go into your BIOS and go to the main page. See what BIOS version it says you have installed currently, or, go to any run or search box on the start menu and type in msinfo32 and hit enter. In the right hand panel that comes up see what BIOS version it says is installed.

Memory is running in dual channel, so THAT part is good. I would go ahead and install the chipset drivers now.

The new chipset drivers are now installed.

I updated my BIOS using a flash drive that I booted through my BIOS, the file on the flash drive was a .180 file downloaded from the website i provided in my response.

 

[Drevsvy]

I might have something interesting here.

I am only idling, using browsers while preparing my "heavy run" on Heaven 4.0 when I saw these red numbers and my idle temp reaching 55 C.

https://imgur.com/a/EThzoKL

View: https://imgur.com/a/EThzoKL


Do you think anything is wrong here @Darkbreeze ?

also:

It is most helpful if you can take a series of HWinfo screenshots at idle, after a cold boot to the desktop. Open HWinfo and wait for all of the Windows startup processes to complete. Usually about four or five minutes should be plenty. Take screenshots of all the HWinfo sensors.



Next, run something demanding like Prime95 version 26.6 or Heaven benchmark. Take another set of screenshots while either of those is running so we can see what the hardware is doing while under a load.

As per request, here are the screenshots for a cold boot:

https://imgur.com/a/2D2bYXd

View: https://imgur.com/a/2D2bYXd


And these are during KF2 on High settings (not ultra)

https://imgur.com/a/PYIBqC1

View: https://imgur.com/a/PYIBqC1

During a heavy fps drop (from 250+ down to <140) I quickly grabbed this shot of the viewer:

https://imgur.com/a/MTluaVK

View: https://imgur.com/a/MTluaVK


Note, i do not have dual monitor but that is the best I could. I paused the game and immedietly alt-tabbed. But a lot was happening and frame dropped (Not below playable, but significant in this research)

it is not Heaven yet, but it is late and I am going to sleep.

Thank you for all of your help so far. I will await your response regarding my most recent screenshot from Ryzen Master.

 

[Drevsvy]

I just noticed another odd thing.

My temperature, in idle, keeps circling. It ramps up to 55 RAPIDLY, then slowly goes down to 45. As soon as it hits 45, it ramps up to 55 immidietly.
Here is a picture:

https://imgur.com/a/Qcx6P0c

EDIT:

I googled it, and the first search was your response from 2014... I feel more safe now.
Not about the red numbers though.

Yes, it's normal. Especially if turbo boost is enabled which generally for most systems, it is by default. Even without it though the temps change like that. Loads shift from core to core and temps raise and lower within milliseconds. Each time a windows process kicks in or returns to the background or a call for resources occurs, it creates heat in the cores. Even at idle, there is a lot going on. GPU doesn't run a bunch of processes like the CPU. GPU generally only raises in load and temp when you're doing something related to the visual display.

View: https://imgur.com/a/Qcx6P0c

 

[Karadjgne]

You are ramping from 45° to 55°. That's not bad. Not when my pc constantly ramps from dead idle of 32° to 54° and yet gaming temps don't go beyond 55°.

Its perfectly normal abnormal windows behavior. Ever since Win10CE happened, getting a lengthy idle period is next to impossible. It can be improved, there's a nice little program called Winaero, it's nothing more than an app with a bunch of Windows settings that you don't normally see (windows has them, just doesn't advertise them). Stuff like enable/disable Cortana or Windows Store, disable unused services or processes like hibernation etc.

Theory is, if there's less things to run, windows doesn't open them, no idle bounce.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Nice to know I get around, and keep getting around even five years later. LOL.

I might have something interesting here.

I am only idling, using browsers while preparing my "heavy run" on Heaven 4.0 when I saw these red numbers and my idle temp reaching 55 C.

https://imgur.com/a/EThzoKL

View: https://imgur.com/a/EThzoKL

Be sure to read down the page on this. Might be worth trying. Also, IMO I like to run the Performance power plan, but then go into the advanced plan options and set the "Processor power management minimum" setting to 8%. If Min and Max are both at 100% you're going to have high idle temps and overall higher temps, most of the time. It's never going to give the cores the chance to "relax". And relaxing tends to give cores a chance to cool off a bit which can help to lower average package temps.

https://community.amd.com/thread/230768


My preferred setting though would be to do this. Which may or may not even affect this problem anyhow but I still prefer to configure this way.

1. Open control panel
2. Open power options
3. Click "Change plan settings" next to the Performance plan setting. If not ON performance plan setting, select that plan and THEN click Change plan settings.
4. Click "Change advanced power settings"
5. Scroll down and expand "Processor power management" and expand the "Min" setting. Set it to 8%. Save settings and exit all windows.
6. Restart system.

 

[Karadjgne]

This could be a good read, if you haven't seen it yet, either of you.
https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/04/06/amd-ryzen-community-update-3

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yep, that's probably relevant, at least to the "idle" temps. Not sure how much it has to do with max temps, but at least as much as the settings I was talking about. Probably a good idea to do what they recommend though or try both ways and see what works better for you.

 

[Drevsvy]

Good morning and thanks for your contributions. I am so glad you're helping.
Sorry for the long read; I just wish to make sure that you get the most information as possible, so you can easier help me determine the problems.

This could be a good read, if you haven't seen it yet, either of you.
https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/04/06/amd-ryzen-community-update-3

I forgot my chipset.. I am worried I pick the wrong one. I have a Tomahawk B450. Would just be the AMD B450 chipset?
Thanks in advance. Although this seems to fix idling mostly? And on that note..

Yep, that's probably relevant, at least to the "idle" temps. Not sure how much it has to do with max temps, but at least as much as the settings I was talking about. Probably a good idea to do what they recommend though or try both ways and see what works better for you.

I tried your way:

My preferred setting though would be to do this. Which may or may not even affect this problem anyhow but I still prefer to configure this way.

1. Open control panel
2. Open power options
3. Click "Change plan settings" next to the Performance plan setting. If not ON performance plan setting, select that plan and THEN click Change plan settings.
4. Click "Change advanced power settings"
5. Scroll down and expand "Processor power management" and expand the "Min" setting. Set it to 8%. Save settings and exit all windows.
6. Restart system.

https://imgur.com/a/R3qTh6u

View: https://imgur.com/a/R3qTh6u


These are my results. I haven't restarted the system (Probably should) but I got confused if this was all right. While I didn't restart, pardon me, I got "scared", but is this normal/would I get more convenient results after a restart? If so, i'll give it a try. I am talking about the cores going up and down constantly.

Thanks, both of you, but -
My problem is still high perfomance, not idling.
None of you have answered the screenshots from my games, and I sadly don't know how to read them.

On that note, I have been having a few thoughts, regarding my limitations..
Since I have all the drivers up and running;
Wouldn't the obvious thing to believe be that I had either some controlling software blocking it and/or my hardware is simply corrupt or broken?
I bought everything fresh and new from reliable providers, but I kept thinking about how @Karadjgne would run the game at 300 fps ultra, and I struggle to even get 200 with a damn RTX 2070. On par with one of his very firsts post (Sorry for assuming gender):

A 2070 is more than capable of ultra at 300fps, my gtx970 puts up 300fps at ultra. So playing 'competitive' mode at uber low settings across the board is nothing more than removing details, shadows, face gen, chargen details or other distractions, and won't affect your fps.

If it is affecting fps, you have gpu issues somewhere, whether that's in drivers or monitor hookup or even software conflicts with windows.

Simple test to determine what you believe is holding you back is change detail levels. If at low you get @ 277fps, max out ultra settings. If fps drops drastically then it's gpu issue. If fps really doesn't change, then either the cpu is maxing out ability, or something is bottlenecking its ability to pre-render the frames, setting a lower than expected level.

MY FPS did drop, so it is certainly a GPU drawback, at least in CS:GO, also if compared with my findings from a more recent post where I mention how the fps would often drop at places with more going on than others:
(Looking at down at the ground or in small areas sure get me 300 FPS in both scenarios, but my benchmarking with high settings gave 222.7 fps in average, the "all low" gave me 278.0 fps in average. A solid difference, or?)

I could clearly feel like it was a new game, with more often staying at the +290 fps mark, and not dropping as frequently.
However, at certain spots with a lot of "activity"/Visuals, like standing at T-spawn on cache, or on balcony overlooking B-site on Overpass (CS:GO players can relate to the scenario), my frames would drop, sometimes to values as low as 190. And 150 when the train arrived...! (However, fluctuating heavily at these points and then averaging at 200 again).
Once again; Playable. Sure. But optimal? No.

As per screenshot, it is visible that my GPU never uses above 55% of it's max.
(This confused me however, as my GPU clocked at 1410mHz while in game, but its max value peaked at 1840 mHz... How?)

But my friends rocks a 960, which compared to my 2070 is weak. And runs an i3-8350k (Which is good) and clocks it at 4.5.
His ZCPU and ZGPU are shown in this picture:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/541697340784771073/594245532227076273/spec.PNG

My friend had a LOWER average fps than me; But overviewing B-site on Overpass he would average higher than me.
And mind me, while his single core perfomance is stronger than mine, wouldn't it make sense that my GPU is underperfoming/choosing not to use its full potential based on the screenshots?

Could it be a cable issue? I use a "BizLink" cable, a D-Link branded company.
Could it be a BIOS setting that is equally important as XMP? I do not run any "game boost" mode, since the fans go crazy. I could try play with them, but last time I tried CS:GO with them, change was minimal. That was without XMP however.
Could it be damaged hardware?

Sorry for the long read, and I really, deeply appreciate all your help so far. Experience has gotten better.
Best Regards Drevsy

 

[Drevsvy]

Hello again.

I have partly good news.. I think?

First of all; My screenshots from previously wasn't answered well, aswell as the issue with EDC being at 100%.
Did some google diving and found the following:
https://community.amd.com/thread/230768#comment-2892723

I tried following his steps (And sounds like what you actually recommended so I did it again, thanks and sorry lol, @Darkbreeze )
It haven't dropped EDC to 100% yet, I will await further instructions.


And now.... Some good news.. Maybe!
Regarding my GPU underperforming, my friend realised I had DSR 4.0 runninng (AKA, virtual upscaling to 4k, I pressume?)
I removed this feature, and saw an immediate boost to my gaming perfomance.. I think. As mentioned, I only measure these by looking at a live FPS counter at a corner.
The average seemed WAY higher, and only, rarely and during intense moments dipped below the scary 180 factor during KF2 on high settings (Still not Ultra or with PhysX enabled..!)

So it seems better, but is it? Heading into a competitive game of CS:GO now to see what the new setup feels like.
I keep switching my thoughts of it being a GPU to CPU to memory issue constantly. So far, a lot of progress has been made, but I still believe my CPU does something based of my screenshots posted earlier.

EDIT: I am in CS:GO right now
Not promising. All settings low, playing on inferno at 1280x720 (Whatever that resolution is) annd while maintaining a ~290 most of the time, I dip as low as 160 fps sometimes when overlooking mid - On such low graphical settings.

Any idea on how I can maybe "record" or see usage once I alt+tab?

With only monitor, I don't know how to otherwise track this, but based on previous thoughts on this post, seems like a GPU reason... Still.

Thanks so far for everything, guys.