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Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with that
group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was just
wondering how you guys usually play.

-adam
 
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superstickman4@aol.com (Superstickman4) wrote in message news:<20040617095332.13659.00000126@mb-m12.aol.com>...
> Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
> books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with that
> group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was just
> wondering how you guys usually play.
>
> -adam

If I got that right, the people you play D&D with are very focused on
the book. Does a book rule override a GM choice?

Well my group generally always plays by the book although sometimes
the GM invents dice rolls for stuff, if finding rules in the book
takes too long or disturbs the gameplay.
We prefer being on the safe side, especially when it comes to falling
from great heights, throwing heavy objects etc..
If the GM makes up all the rules IMO the players lose grip of the
gaming world. They don't have any reliable rules they can depend on.
AFAIK Mage is a rather complex game and trying to integrate all
elements of the game might be rather hard without a rulebook.
Playing without rules might be fun once in a while (fast paced action
gaming for example) but, at least for my group, it isn't an
alternative.

other
 
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> Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
> books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with
that
> group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was
just
> wondering how you guys usually play.

Well people can be like that...

I usually play without books as i know most of the stuff... I even run games
with players unafamiliar with the books... they are used only at character
creation... (so i can take some under me and show them while the others go
through the book... )

I take out the books only to consult the stuff i am not sure about (rare) or
some more esoteric power/gift (more often)... otherwise the books are there
for my enjoyment :) (and the occasional borrowing to people to read up on
the stuff...)


--
Asmodai
------------------------------------
Asmodai @ post.h1n3t.hr
---------------------------------------------------
A flamewarrior, making a valiant
stand against the Evil Scooby Gang.
---------------------------------------------------
"Majesty, although i believe the world is flat, i figure
that with sufficient men and a big enough tire-pump
we could inflate it again"
--The First American
---------------------------------------------------
Change the 1 and 3 for I and E :)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Superstickman4 wrote:
>
> Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
> books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with that
> group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was just
> wondering how you guys usually play.

It varies by the group, I find. In my area, I have a bunch of friends
who know the books inside out (for D&D), so they usually just tell us
what the rules are if a question arises. This is not to say we're nazis
though. If the DM makes a ruling on the fly, it generally stands.
I have played games with rules lawyers and I have played games free
form. It really depends on the people you have. In general, though, I
do find that the Storyteller system is better inclined to book-free
role-playing, whereas D&D is more rules intensive (but the dice "pools"
are much more manageable.)
 
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Superstickman4 wrote:

> Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
> books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with that
> group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was just
> wondering how you guys usually play.

I've played without books exactly once (on the set of Freaks & Geeks
filming the D&D scene, oddly enough; no way in hell am I going to try
playing AD&D1e at this point, and those were the only books present). I
definitely prefer have a book to reference while playing, even if I
don't use it much. Maybe it's a comfort thing.

Then again, I usually try to stay pretty close to the rules by default,
and only change them when a good reason presents itself. Part of my
upbringing was "Learn the rules before you break them." (In the context
of "No, Lea, you're not allowed to sing the alphabet out of order until
you've learned to sing it correctly. Now, try again.")
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Superstickman4 wrote:
> Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
> books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with that
> group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was just
> wondering how you guys usually play.

I'm into SENSE. If the rules don't make sense in the context of
the world, the rules die. World first, rules second.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
 
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>Does a book rule override a GM choice?

sometimes it does depending on how far the stick is up some people asses...

-adam
 
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Superstickman4 <superstickman4@aol.com> wrote:
: Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally w/o
: books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and with that
: group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the book. I was just
: wondering how you guys usually play.

Specifically on the subject of books:

Books for players: core mechanics (easily learned pretty fast) and what
abilities/mechanics the player must know through the character. While
playing: none. The players are roleplaying, not reading some silly
tables or comparing super powers or spells.

Books for the GM while playing: none whatsoever. What on earth do you
need books for when you're running a game? If you can't remember
something, fake it. If it's too complicated to fake, you have to consult
a book and it breaks the game flow, change to a lighter system and
continue faking (or doing enough preparations before the game).

//T
 
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Superstickman4 squarked:
> Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally
> w/o books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D and
> with that group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by the
> book. I was just wondering how you guys usually play.

Well, once you understand the essence of mage - the spheres - there is no
need for the rules beyond character creation. If the ST has a reasonable
idea of how each level of the spheres work, and can convey that to the PCs
(and, I should add, a reasonable idea of how the abilities work although
these are pretty obvious) then there is no need for a book. The magic is so
freeform that the books become crutches.

Now for werewolf, I am always forgetting the less common gifts (typically
anything above rank 3) which is why I tend to write out roughly what they do
on the character sheet and the always the roll needed. If I know I will
need some of the stranger rules, I try to look them up beforehand. If
absolutely necessary I will look them up in a game, but I have often made a
temporary ruling on the fly and looked them up after the game (I have to
point out that I often don't use the rules 100% as written in the book;
looking them up gives me a place to start from).

For vampire, I know the common LARP rules back to front. In moments of
uncertainty or dispute I tend to go start at the top of the following list
and work downwards:
# My _knowledge_
# The knowledge of a player I trust
# My instinct
# The rulebook(s)

The only time I reliably consult rulebooks is for weapon stats (luckily in
LARP there is only one stat, and the common ones are well known). Also, I
consult Adventure! for combat manoevers because I really like their system.
--
Picks-at-Flies
A flamewarrior, making a valiant stand against the Evil Scooby Gang.
http://www.werepenguin.net
 
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superstickman4@aol.com postulated:

:: Yesterday was the first time i've played Mage and we played totally
:: w/o books(with some prior knowledge). I am a usual player in D+D
:: and with that group people are book nazi's. Everything has to be by
:: the book. I was just wondering how you guys usually play.

It really depends on the game and complexity of what's involved. For
instance, for both Werewolf and Hengeyokai I used to pull out a stack of
books to sit next to me during the game because I used rules and/or elements
from so many of them. For the entire run of a chronicle I probably only
looked at the books about 5% of the time during a game. For games with lots
of tricks, like Werewolf, I have never bothered (and have no intention of
changing this) learning by rote what every player is capable of doing. I
have a rough idea from play, and I trust them to keep track of how they do
their tricks and what tricks they can do. Sometimes this is nice because I
get pleasantly surprised and it has sometimes kept *me* on my toes, and I
like that as a GM because too much complacancy is bad.

For DA:Mage I have the rulebook handy, but my handouts do all my work for me
really. The only time I've really needed the book was to use stats for a
critter I was throwing at my players where I was using the book, or when
Pillars were being used that did not belong to the Valdermen (i.e. by NPCs).
And in a predominantly Viking game, this was rare.

I will almost never let books be available to players during a game. For
some there is too much temptation to sit through the game reading irrelevant
passages and not paying attention. The only times I let a player look at a
book is if they need to look up a trick where they might have neglected to
make a proper note of its use and want to check the wording before proposing
a use. This is always so long as it doesn't hold up the game.

The important thing is that it doesn't hold up the game. Usually I set
myself a time limit on finding information in a book. If I (or whoever is
looking it up) haven't found it in x amount of time I consider the game to
be "held up" and will wing a response that seems acceptable.

As Stephenls, I think it was, said above, it's mostly a comfort thing.
Knowing that I've got a safety net if my memory goes a total blank or if I
get caught off-guard with something. At conventions, however, although I
often have a corebook in my bag, I rarely ever actually use it. My most
useful tool there is my GM screen. The only things I worry about having
reference to are the varying combat related stats, most of the time. In
fact, I usually run Call of Cthulhu with *only* the GM screen. I have only
on a couple of occasions referred to the book, and that was to check some of
the finer SAN rules that are not mentioned on the screen. Easy enough things
to remember if you're a regular player, which unfortunately I'm not.

I stop ramble now.

Nimrod...
--
"I didn't know there was a red light district in the land of
make-believe!" - Toothgnip, www.goats.com