Geforce3 or ATI8500

[bentmelchior]

Just a little question.

At the moment my rig is containing a geforce2 pro with 32MB DDR.
Will I get a huge increase in fps by putting in a geforce3 or ATI 8500.
I know it would improve my system, but would it feel like a revolution, or just a waste of money.
I play games a lot.

MY rig.
P4 1.6ghz
shuttle av-40 P4x266
256MB pc2100
geforce2 pro 32MB ddr-ram
8.6GB 7200rpm( yeah i know , a puny size really )

 

[Matisaro]

Gf3 ti 200 overclock it to ti 500 speeds, radeon 8500's drivers arent mature right now, and also they cheated on their q3 benchmarks.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Guest]

I don't think it would feel like a revolution or a waste of money. Something in the middle of that.

For me it was satisfying to see the difference in framerates, and there are some games where the difference is pronounced.. (Max Payne looks soooooo good on a GF3).

If you can afford it, I'd say go fer it! (But it is probably not worth going totally broke over these gains)

Happy 'pootin'

 

[bentmelchior]

thx...

how did they cheat???

 

[AMD_Man]

By decreasing image quality upon detecting Quake III. I think it isn't fair that Matisaro is condemning the Radeon 8500 so quickly. AnandTech forced ATI to cheat!!!!! ATI wanted Anandtech to use a special beta version of their performance drivers to test the Radeon 8500 but Anandtech told ATI that they would only review it with the performance drivers if ATI released the drivers the same day. Anandtech rushed to release the performance drivers. I'm sure ATI was about to do some more tweaks to enhance Quake III performance without compromising quality but Anandtech rushed them. Anyway, I'd get a Radeon 8500 as it's very cheap and could potentially beat a GeForce3 Ti500 by mid-November or at least that's what ATI promises. Wait till mid-November to choose a graphics card if you're really fussy.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AMD_Man on 11/02/01 12:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Matisaro]

I'm sure ATI was about to do some more tweaks to enhance Quake III performance without compromising performance but Anandtech rushed them. Anyway, I'd get a Radeon 8500 as it's very cheap and could potentially beat a GeForce3 Ti500 by mid-November or at least that's what ATI promises. Wait till mid-November to choose a graphics card if you're really fussy.

LoL, ati cheated, period.

This was not anandtechs fault, it was atis fault, that alone is NOT why I reccomended the ti 200, atis release drivers are crap, and he gave the impression he was buying right now.

Ati cheating is just a moral call on my part. I was going to get an 8500 for my next beast computer, but I find the cheating repugnant and offensive, and to punish ati I will not purchase their videocard.

I found it very interesting that the 8500 beats the gf3 ti 500 in 3dmark 2001 and quake 3, and thats IT. From what I have read most other benchmarks give the gf3 500 the lead.

I think ATI should spend less time tweaking their drivers to cheat, and more time making them not suck!

PS: bent, ati released drivers which upon detection of quake 3(a very ((although I have no idea why)) benchmark) Lowered the detail level AND color level without telling the user, EVEN IF THEY SELECTED HIGH DETAIL 32 BIT COLOR. This very falsely pumped the benchmark scores on quake 3(even have read some reviews where with the tweak turned off(with the quack method) the gf3 beats the radeon in quake 3.


~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Smilin]

Don't give me this "It's Anandtech's fault" crap. That is so frickin absurd. They wrote drivers that detected when a certain benchmarkable program is in use and then fools with the graphics quality to pump up scores. It is black and white. ATI is cheating on benchmarks. Anandtech told them "we are using only drivers that are available to the public". You need to go re-read the anandtech review.

In any case to answer the original post...You won't notice a HUGE difference in most stuff. You're already runing 1024x728x32 with acceptable framerates is my guess. The newer cards will let you get away with 1280x1024x32 for many games (q3, ut, serious same etc..). The additional 32mb of memory will help you quite a bit though. Many games (q3 comes to mind) will texture thrash when the texture detail is set to high on 32mb cards.

I just went from a 64mb GF2 GTS to a GF3 Ti500. It sho duz run nice I do agree with (whatshisnameupthere) that a GF3 Ti200 overclocked real high would be a good option.

 

[AMD_Man]

It's not Anandtech's fault, it's just Anandtech rushed them to release the drivers. I don't think ATI would've been called a cheater if they had made optimizations for Quake III and 3DMark2001 without compromising quality. I mean does optimizing a driver for SSE or 3DNow! cheating just because not all processors support SSE or 3DNow!? No it's not! Optimizing drivers for Quake III is not cheating if there was no loss of quality. That's what I expect to happen in the next version of ATI's drivers. I'm not supporting ATI...hey I have cards from nVidia and the now deceased 3dfx too, but I don't think a poor driver is reason enough to hate ATI. If you don't like the "performance" driver then don't download it, it's that simple!!!!!!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Smilin]

Look man it's like this.

I have NO problem with application specific optimizations. None. I welcome that sort of thing.

In this instance I am not talking about optimizations. I'm talking about cheating. To quote you: "Optimizing drivers for Quake III is not cheating if there was no loss of quality. " Well there IS a loss of visual quality so it's cheating.

You simply can't turn down graphics settings secretly and then compare your product to one that doesn't. It is deceptive and unethical. You can shoulda coulda woulda oughta all day long about what drivers are and what they should be. They cheated. Period. They were quite stupid to think they wouldn't get caught.

I don't hate ATI, I just don't trust them.

 

[AMD_Man]

Well, they DID cheat in that sense in their "performance" drivers, but I'm waiting at least mid-November before choosing a new graphics card in all fairness. ATI has done stupid things before but they usually fix it eventually (eg. Rage Pro chip performance)

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[jclw]

Radeon 8500 vrs GF3: <A HREF="http://www.radtweak.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/compare/Upgrade.htm" target="_new">http://www.radtweak.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/compare/Upgrade.htm</A>

 

[Guest]

Aw Crap! did I miss it?

well here's my opinion anyway

<b>DID NOT...</b>

<b>DID TOO...</b>

<b>DID SO....</b>

<b>NU UH.....</b>

<b>YER GIRLFRIEND..</b>

<b>YER MOMMA..</b>

etc. etc. etc.

------------------

<b>Do YOU deserve Da Bird?</b>

 

[AMD_Man]

huh?

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Guest]

oops!

That wasn't directed at you AMDman. I was just browsing the threads and feelin silly.

srry bout that

------------------

<b>Do YOU deserve Da Bird?</b>

 

[Guest]

Damn you all for eternity.

After many hours of careful research I've pretty well decided that a Ti200 is the puppy I need for my new toy.
Now after following this thread and checking out the Radeon 8500 - I'm back to square one again [sort of]. The 8500 is much more affordable than the Ti500 (at least here in Oz) and it looks like the only issues at the moment are driver related which will surely be fixed in the next couple of weeks. Once there are proper drivers available, my read of this is that the 8500 will be streets ahead.

Of course there's the issue about honesty during the benchmarking which I wasn't aware of, but keeping things at a purely technical level, I might have to switch to an 8500 now.

Just my 2c worth. (2 Australian cents = 0.00001 US cents)

 

[Matisaro]

sos, just so you know, ATI has [-peep-] driver history, and the ti 200 will have good driver support for the long haul. But the choice is yours.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[No_Tone]

I would go for the ATI. In the benchmarks that don't involve Quake3, they do pretty well. Also they have lots of new technology, although not supported now, but I'm sure they will have better drivers because they were rushed by so many people. I know ATI cheated, but I'm sure many companies cheat as well, but ATI was unforunate to be caught. In my opinion, ATI's Radeon 8500 kills the GeForce3. Their dualhead support is excellent, and I don't think GeForce3 can support it.

 

[sdausmus]

What's a good overclocking utility for WinXP? I just got a Visiontek 6564 GF3 Ti-200 and wanna open it up a bit.

 

[AMD_Man]

Not anymore Matisaro, they're releasing new drivers every two weeks now!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

Here is some more interesting information.


http://www.theinquirer.net/03110102.htm


the top link, shows a japanese site comparing dvd images from gf3 and radeon 8500, and it has pictures, and damned it if the gf3 dosent look better.

Now I am not one to take looking as a benchmark, because its highly subjective, but one of radeons claims is better image quality and better 2d, well....look at the pics and judge for yourself.

PS: this is an INDEPENDANTLY LINKED BENCHMARK.

I am not trying to use this as justification not to buy a radeon, only providing information.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Guest]

The bright side is that I don't think I have seen a post from an owner of either card that is unhappy with it!

Relax, spend yer allowance, sit back and say......

OMG this card Rocks!

------------------

<b>Do YOU deserve Da Bird?</b>

 

[AMD_Man]

Ok, that can't be right because the first image was horrible. That can't be produced by the Radeon 8500. It looks aweful!

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Matisaro]

Translate the site, if you still dont believe it, call the site the liar, I just provide links!

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~

 

[Makaveli]

Who really gives a [-peep-] if they optimized for Quake 3. That game is a POS and so old. DO you still play Quake 3? I know I don't and I would still purchase an 8500! Quake 3 = FAded!
As for the drivers ATi's will get better in time, Remember it took Nvidia 6 months to get decent Geforce 3 drivers.

But it all comes down to your budget. I would suggest you talk to more people that have both cards. Instead of some people on this forum cause all you'll get is opinon's which aren't gonna help you much if they don't own these cards!

 

[Matisaro]

They didnt "optimise" for quake, they cheated, most people dont hit their gas pedals to see how fast they can get to 60mph, but they use it as a judge of a cars performance. Same deal!

Secondly, the gf3's drivers were excellent from the start, the detxp's just gave a nice fat bonus, and they didnt have to cheat at benchmarks to get good scores.

Sure the ati drivers will get better in time, the question is HOW MUCH TIME. ATI has a horrible track record for drivers, why should they change now?

I do agree that more people who own the radeon8500 should speak up, about their happiness or problems, the cheating remans however, a fact. One should be able to make a choice on purchasing a product based on the shady actions of the makers, and I for one wont be buying an 8500.


~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~