[SOLVED] Gelid Stella Frost Fans for Fresh Build

farmageddon85

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Hi. I am setting up 10x-13x argb 3 pin/4pin pwm fans. (I have lian li 011 dynamic evo white case, so 13x if I decide to use the mesh front panel, which I think would be a good idea for more intake from the front.) Each Gelid Stella Frost fan im using comes with 3pin argb 5v male and female and a 4 pin pwm so 3 cords total. My question is, Do I need 2x 5v argb headers to do a duo color theme for my case. ( Blue + White ) Do I need 2 separate Hubs? If so should i get splitters as well and get a hybrid argb/pwm hub. Just looking for some positive recommendations to make this as painless as possible and with the least amount of cords. Thank you! I have not decided on my mother board yet either so that could be a recommendation as well. I am planning on getting the upcoming 7800x3d ryzen cpu. Will there be a new roll out of am5 boards I should wait and see before getting mobo. I am also not decided on Gpu. WAiting for prices to come down furthur, which i can see happening soon with mining halted. Will splitters mess fan control or argb control? What happens if I use 2 seperate 5v argb headers that lead to the same hub box are they still seperate or do I need 2 seperate hubs as well.

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Solution
Lutfij makes very good points above. I'll expand a little.

A lighted fan - in this case, a PWM type with 4-pin connections and with ARGB lights in its frame (3-pin connection) - is TWO devices in one unit. There is a fan MOTOR, and separately the LIGHTS. Each of these is completely separate electrically, so each has its own cable to plug into its particular mobo header. In your case, OP, the LIGHTING cable on each fan has the standard 3-hole ARGB female connector PLUS a male 4-pin extra connector. This latter is used solely for making DAISY-CHAIN connections for the LIGHTS only from one fan to another. Doing that allows you to connect several fans' lights together to a single mobo header. Within that group, all the fans' lights will do...

Lutfij

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Do I need 2x 5v argb headers to do a duo color theme for my case. ( Blue + White ) Do I need 2 separate Hubs?
From the way I see it, yes you do. You might want to elaborate on the color scheme with regards to the case and where the fans will go. IMHO, maybe you're overdoing it with the fans - not just the amount of it but the volume of the fans at the end of the day might cause your ears to say goodbye, even with a managed fan curve.
 

farmageddon85

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Feb 25, 2020
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Do I need 2x 5v argb headers to do a duo color theme for my case. ( Blue + White ) Do I need 2 separate Hubs?
From the way I see it, yes you do. You might want to elaborate on the color scheme with regards to the case and where the fans will go. IMHO, maybe you're overdoing it with the fans - not just the amount of it but the volume of the fans at the end of the day might cause your ears to say goodbye, even with a managed fan curve.

What happens if I use 2 seperate 5v argb headers that lead to the same hub box are they still seperate (to where I can have 2 sets of fans coordinate with 2 different colors of my choosing. or do I need 2 seperate hubs as well. 10-13 fans is not over doing it imo. I already elaborated on the color scheme blue and white. 2 colors. The fans will go where their is an open spot for one lool. The fans are very quite from what i have tested out so far. But noise can be adjusted after the fact if it is an annoyance but i doubt it will be a real concern to just give up on doing this. I am pretty sure that as long as the headers are different and lead to the hub you can seperate the colors but i just wanted to know for sure. i coulnt find alot of info online
 
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Paperdoc

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Lutfij makes very good points above. I'll expand a little.

A lighted fan - in this case, a PWM type with 4-pin connections and with ARGB lights in its frame (3-pin connection) - is TWO devices in one unit. There is a fan MOTOR, and separately the LIGHTS. Each of these is completely separate electrically, so each has its own cable to plug into its particular mobo header. In your case, OP, the LIGHTING cable on each fan has the standard 3-hole ARGB female connector PLUS a male 4-pin extra connector. This latter is used solely for making DAISY-CHAIN connections for the LIGHTS only from one fan to another. Doing that allows you to connect several fans' lights together to a single mobo header. Within that group, all the fans' lights will do the same thing. There is a limiting factor here. The mobo header into which one chain of fans is plugged has a limit on how much power in AMPS it can supply. The web page for those fans does NOT specify the lamp load, BUT it does specify that each fan frame contains 24 ARGB LED's. The "rule of thumb" you can use is that each LED can consume up to 20 mA (0.020 A), so ONE fan can use up to 0.48 A for the LIGHTS only. Round that to half an amp per fan. When you connect several fans together you add up the max current for the group. For 6 of these fans in ONE daisy-chained lighting set, the max is 3.0 A. Doing the lights this way means you will NOT need a LIGHTING HUB because the Daisy-Chain method eliminates that need.

When you choose your mobo, you MUST have two or more 3-pin ARGB headers on it. You will NOT use any 4-pin plain RGB header! Why? You can NOT connect any ARGB lights to a plain RGB header, or you ruin them immediately! More importantly, each such header has a limit on how much power it can provide - often about 3.0 A per header. Some also spec their abilities in terms of the max number of LED's you can use on one header, but the real limit is amps. So to use up to 13 lighted ARGB fans you will need two or three headers to feed all that lighting load in sub-groups.

It is common on mobos with more than one lighting header of the same type (plain RGB or ARGB separately) that the software app provided to control the lights has an option to select whether each header is configured separately, or whether all of them do the same thing (synchronized). In your case, OP, you want to create two different groups, so at least two headers will be needed. IF it turns out that you cannot connect all the lights of one colour group to a single header, you MAY be able to put one group all on one header, then split the other group between two headers and configure those two the same. HOWEVER, if you do that there is no guarantee that those two configured the same will do everything the same at the SAME TIME.

IF it becomes essential that you connect more than 5 or 6 such fans into ONE synchronized group for one colour and the electrical load exceeds what one header can do, THEN you will need an ARGB LIGHTING HUB for that. This is a device that allows you to connect many light cables to one mobo header signal source, BUT it gets power for all its lights from the PSU directly (using a cable to connect to a PSU output), and is not limited in Amps by the header 3.0 A limit.

Now to fan MOTORS. In a similar manner, most mobo fan headers have a max current limit - typically 1.0 A. The fans you plan say they will consume 5W max each at 12 VDC, or 0.42 A max per fan. But it is NOT stated clearly whether that is total for the motor PLUS the lights, or for motor only. Typical MOTOR only load is 0.10 to 0.25 A max. For a large number of fans as you plan, the best option is fan HUBs. Again, for fan MOTORS, this is a device that gets its power directly from the PSU via a connection "arm" so it evades the amp limit of the host header. Typically you can get such devices with 6 to 8 output ports, so two of those should handle your plans. Use one on each of two mobo SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN headers and configure both headers the same so all the case fans do exactly the same thing. Note that a HUB can work only with 4-pin PWM type fans, but that is exactly what you plan to buy. The host headers should be configured to use the newer PWM Mode of control, not Voltage or DC.
 
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farmageddon85

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Feb 25, 2020
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Lutfij males very good points above. I'll expand a little.

A lighted fan - in this case, a PWM type with 4-pin connections and with ARGB lights in its frame (3-pin connection) - is TWO devices in one unit. There is a fan MOTOR, and separately the LIGHTS. Each of these is completely separate electrically, so each has its own cable to plug into its particular mobo header. In your case, OP, the LIGHTING cable on each fan has the standard 3-hole ARGB female connector PLUS a male 4-pin extra connector. This latter is used solely for making DAISY-CHAIN connections for the LIGHTS only from one fan to another. Doing that allows you to connect several fans' lights together to a single mobo header. Within that group, all the fans' lights will do the same thing. There is a limiting factor here. The mobo header into which one chain of fans is plugged has a limit on how much power in AMPS it can supply. The web page for those fans does NOT specify the lamp load, BUT it does specify that each fan frame contains 24 ARGB LED's. The "rule of thumb" you can use is that each LED can consume up to 20 mA (0.020 A), so ONE fan can use up to 0.48 A for the LIGHTS only. Round that to half an amp per fan. When you connect several fans together you add up the max current for the group. For 6 of these fans in ONE daisy-chained lighting set, the max is 3.0 A. Doing the lights this way means you will NOT need a LIGHTING HUB because the Daisy-Chain method eliminates that need.

When you choose your mobo, you MUST have two or more 3-pin ARGB headers on it. You will NOT use any 4-pin plain RGB header! Why? You can NOT connect any ARGB lights to a plain RGB header, or you ruin them immediately! More importantly, each such header has a limit on how much power it can provide - often about 3.0 A per header. Some also spec their abilities in terms of the max number of LED's you can use on one header, but the real limit is amps. So to use up to 13 lighted ARGB fans you will need two or three headers to feed all that lighting load in sub-groups.

It is common on mobos with more than one lighting header of the same type (plain RGB or ARGB separately) that the software app provided to control the lights has an option to select whether each header is configured separately, or whether all of them do the same thing (synchronized). In your case, OP, you want to create two different groups, so at least two headers will be needed. IF it turns out that you cannot connect all the lights of one colour group to a single header, you MAY be able to put one group all on one header, then split the other group between two headers and configure those two the same. HOWEVER, if you do that there is no guarantee that those two configured the same will do everything the same at the SAME TIME.

IF it becomes essential that you connect more than 5 or 6 such fans into ONE synchronized group for one colour and the electrical load exceeds what one header can do, THEN you will need an ARGB LIGHTING HUB for that. This is a device that allows you to connect many light cables to one mobo header signal source, BUT it gets power for all its lights from the PSU directly (using a cable to connect to a PSU output), and is not limited in Amps by the header 3.0 A limit.

Now to fan MOTORS. In a similar manner, most mobo fan headers have a max current limit - typically 1.0 A. The fans you plan say they will consume 5W max each at 12 VDC, or 0.42 A max per fan. But it is NOT stated clearly whether that is total for the motor PLUS the lights, or for motor only. Typical MOTOR only load is 0.10 to 0.25 A max. For a large number of fans as you plan, the best option is fan HUBs. Again, for fan MOTORS, this is a device that gets its power directly from the PSU via a connection "arm" so it evades the amp limit of the host header. Typically you can get such devices with 6 to 8 output ports, so two of those should handle your plans. Use one on each of two mobo SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN headers and configure both headers the same so all the case fans do exactly the same thing. Note that a HUB can work only with 4-pin PWM type fans, but that is exactly what you plan to buy. The host headers should be configured to use the newer PWM Mode of control, not Voltage or DC.

Thank you for your detailed response! I decided to do 10 fans instead of 13. having the lian li i can get intake from bottom and from the mesh not in front of case but to the side of front of case then have exhaust on back and top should work out. I will make sure to get a mobo with 2-3 5v headers as i know for sure i want to use 2 and having extra might come in handy later but most likly will not be needed. but i will get a fan hub for 4 pin pwm and daisy chain 5 each of the argb to each header with no need of a hub for argb 3 pin. So everything should be good with being able to have 2 sets doing two different colors but all my fans will be controlled on one hub just for 4 pins. I might have other 5v 3 pin leds to connect other then the 10 fans but it should be fine. if i need more connections or hubs i can figure it out as i go! thanks again! Any fan hubs you recommend? I prefer Magnant over glue.

Airgoo 10-Port PWM Fan Hub/Splitter for 4-Pin & 3-Pin Fans - Newegg.com ended up getting this for only 7 bucks! 10 port 4 pin pwm Magnant attachment!
 
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Paperdoc

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Good! You have it figured out. Just a small note FYI regarding any Hub or Splitter. Any mobo fan header can deal with the speed signal sent back to it from only ONE fan. So a HUB will send back the speed ONLY from the fan plugged into its marked Port #1 and thus you MUST plug one of your fans into that port. This has NO impact on ability to control fan speeds. All the fans on one Hub will do exactly the same thing, but you will "see" the speed of only that one fan on Port #1. The impact is on a second header function - monitoring the speed of its fan for NO speed indicating fan FAILURE. Since the header cannot receive speed signals from all the "other" fans on that Hub, it cannot monitor them all for failure. YOU should look at your fans from time to time and verify they all are still working.
 

farmageddon85

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Good! You have it figured out. Just a small note FYI regarding any Hub or Splitter. Any mobo fan header can deal with the speed signal sent back to it from only ONE fan. So a HUB will send back the speed ONLY from the fan plugged into its marked Port #1 and thus you MUST plug one of your fans into that port. This has NO impact on ability to control fan speeds. All the fans on one Hub will do exactly the same thing, but you will "see" the speed of only that one fan on Port #1. The impact is on a second header function - monitoring the speed of its fan for NO speed indicating fan FAILURE. Since the header cannot receive speed signals from all the "other" fans on that Hub, it cannot monitor them all for failure. YOU should look at your fans from time to time and verify they all are still working.
yep i did see that. the cord that comes with the hub i will put in mobo. then the rest into the hub. i can still set a fun curve for them all? and i will be able to daisy chain most of my argb 5v but it looks like with 2 argb 5v header i can do maybe 5 fans each. i guess i will have to look at the led amount on each product to not go over, say if i get rgb cord extentions or something which i don't plan on doing. my psu came with all white cords, but if i do switch them out they will be the colored sleve type white or black or black and white mixed. Noew i just need to find a good mobo but im kinda scared of bios updates lol never messed iwht them much. i saw some have flash features which i don't need memory cpu gpu in to flash it. but what if i need to flash later after i installed again as this socket will be around for a bit. i think i need a fat 32 usb or something to save onto it. i guess i could research that more as the time comes. just so much to look into haha. thanks for help man. i was looking at the GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX or
MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK ASUS ROG STRIX B650-A ASRock B650E STEEL LEGEND
 
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Paperdoc

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First, thanks for Best Solution.

Yes, using a 10-port Fan Hub connected to one mobo SYS_FAN header and a PSU power output, you can control all 10 case fan motors exactly the same. And daisy-chaining fans' lights in two groups of 5 each onto mobo ARGB headers will get you groups of lights that are controllable separately. Each light group would consume 2.5 A max current (5 fans), certainly within the limit of the headers. Cable extensions do not consume any power UNLESS they are LIGHTED cables.

Be VERY CAREFUL if you plan to replace the cables from the PSU. There are NO "standards" for cables from modular PSU's, so the general rule is to USE ONLY what CAME with your PSU. If you buy alternative cables you MUST verify with the PSU maker that they WILL work with your PSU. An alternative option would be to get COVERS that fit over the supplied cables and give you the look you want.

Regarding BIOS Updates, the story is a bit mixed. In the past the "rule of thumb" was do NOT update unless you have a problem you know will be fixed by the update. This is because it is possible, although NOT COMMON, for the update process to go wrong so badly you cannot get your system to work, even for re-doing an update or restoring an older BIOS Version. However, sometimes you NEED an update, such as when your mobo's original BIOS does not support a new CPU design you have. Further, mobo makers lately have been in the habit of providing two or three possible processes to do the update. Personally I do not trust the "easy" process of using a Windows app to download and install the update. A process that uses a routine built into your basic BIOS to download and install is better, except that SOMETIMES the download process goes bad. I think the most reliable way is to download the new BIOS to a storage device like a USB stick, then use a BIOS routine to read that and install it. As an extra safe backup measure, I like such routines that allow you FIRST to make a copy of your existing BIOS on a different storage device, THEN install the new one. If anything goes wrong then you can always run the process again and re-install your original BIOS version.

A couple notes on fan headers. ONE group of headers (CPU_FAN, CPU_OPT) is intended just for CPU cooling purposes and uses for guidance the temperature sensor built into the CPU chip. Often these are all set to do the same thing - you may or may not be able to configure them differently. Usually with these you have no choice about which temperature sensor they use. The second group (SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN) normally uses a different temperature sensor on the mobo, and is used for case ventilation fans. However, many of these allow you to make a choice of temp sensor (in odd cases you might want to power a fan cooling the CPU from one of these). Some mobos have several other temp sensors on particular mobo components, and these can be used IF you are going to position a fan to concentrate on that particular component. MOST fan headers are limited to 1.0 A max current load, but some are good for 2.0 A, and a few for PUMP use can do higher.

Some mobos have one or two headers labelled for EITHER fan or pump use. For those you also have a configuration option to tell it whether you have plugged in there a fan or a pump.

All mobo fan headers today have 4 pins but can be set to behave as an older 3-pin header for older 3-pin Voltage Control fans (aka DC Control) or as a newer 4-pin PWM Mode header. Many also have an "Auto Mode" setting that has the header test the connected fan and figure its own setting. I prefer to set it to match the fan motor connected - in your case, OP, all you intend to use a PWM 4-pin type. This option can get confusing IF you are installing an AIO liquid cooler system.

Labels for LIGHTS vary a bit. The simpler plain RGB system with FOUR pins usually is just called RGB. The more advanced Addressable RGB system with THREE pins in a (4-1) layout may be called that, or ADDR RGB, or ARGB, or Digital RGB. MSI uses the label JRAINBOW for the ARGB headers on their boards. A few boards have standard 4-pin plain RGB headers near the CPU socket labelled for use with the CPU cooler system if needed.

Heads up on this. Each mobo maker supplies their own proprietary software tool to control lights via their mobo's headers. Since each makes boards with either or both lighting header designs, their tools are able to control BOTH header types on their boards. So the NAME of the tool - ASUS Aura Sync, Gigabyte RGB Fusion, MSI Mystic Light, etc. - deos NOT tell you what type of lights the mobo can handle. You must match the type of lights you buy to the type of HEADERS on your mobo.

Enjoy your build!
 
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farmageddon85

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i am using 3 of the fans for arctic 360 aio. the rest are just for other airflow. thank you for the info my man! btw did you see that 7700x is 300 right now. i mnight go for that instead of fighting and waiting for a 7800x3d for 450-500. think that is a better option to save a few bucks and stiull have good performance? my fans do match up to the big 4 brands msi gigabyte asus asrock for the rgb bios settings
 

Paperdoc

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That raises three points.

1. From what I see on the web page, the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 system has one cable that plugs into the mobo CPU_FAN header, and it should be configured to use PWM Mode as its speed control method. Power to the rad FANS is by wires attached to the HOSES running from Pump to Rad. It is not clear in the photos, but I do not see how you can CHANGE the rad fans for those you have chosen and find a way to plug them in. I can think of a way, but what is your plan?

2. Regarding video cards, I have no useful info or relevant experience, so I can't offer any advice.

3. You say, "my fans do match up to the big 4 brands msi gigabyte asus asrock for the rgb bios settings." I don't understand. Any mobo that HAS standard 3-pin ARGB headers on it CAN power and control the common ARGB fans, including those you have chosen. They may not have listed those exact fans in their mobo descriptions, but those fans DO have "standard" connectors both for the motor and for the lights, so they CAN be used with any such mobo, and using the mobo maker's software tool to control them.
 

farmageddon85

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i already read into it. there will be no problem switching out all the fans on that cooler i just might need a splitter to control them separately. What I meant by match up is the fans i have are supported by the bios for changing the colors lol not the connections. i did buy a msi b650 and a 7600x for 455 after tax and shipping. new jedi game included with the combo.
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