News Gelsinger: Intel Wants Apple Back

Apr 1, 2020
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We know from the past that Intel is not below giving their chips away below cost or free, they did that for years to keep AMD out of the mobile market and is why they stopped reporting mobile as their own segment in their earnings. I can completely see Apple releasing a line of Intel based desktop machines with Intel processors if it means higher profit margins.
 
Sep 2, 2021
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No offense, but for the same reason intel is trying to maintain its own production lines (cutting the middle man and thus increasing margins), apple has the same interest in cutting out middle men. Plus having a fully customizable eco system from a to z has its up-sides, especially if you have the money to set it up. Once you have established the structures to do so its easier to maintain it. Intels lagging behind openend practically a compelling door to apple. They have no real intention going back, they have now 100% sovereignty over its system.
Couples that broke apart are usually done for good. Have fun indulging in the past Pat.
 

peachpuff

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Apr 6, 2021
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"So what I have to do is create a better chip than they can"

Lol ya that's all you have to do... good luck with that pipe dream. Intel and amd should be scared of what Apple managed to accomplish in such a short time, their only saving grace is that Apple hopefully won't sell their chips to others.
 
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No offense, but for the same reason intel is trying to maintain its own production lines (cutting the middle man and thus increasing margins), apple has the same interest in cutting out middle men.
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They have no real intention going back, they have now 100% sovereignty over its system.
No offense but now apple has one more middle man, they still have to pay some FAB to make the CPUs AND they have to pay a fat royalty to ARM, with intel they only payed once. It might still be cheaper for them for now but as far as middlemen go they have one more now.
If nvidia buys up ARM and all the bad things that people fear happen then apple is pretty much screwed.
Apple has zero rights over ARM.
 

King_V

Judicious
Ambassador
No offense but now apple has one more middle man, they still have to pay some FAB to make the CPUs AND they have to pay a fat royalty to ARM, with intel they only payed once. It might still be cheaper for them for now but as far as middlemen go they have one more now.
If nvidia buys up ARM and all the bad things that people fear happen then apple is pretty much screwed.
Apple has zero rights over ARM.
Maybe that's accurate, and maybe it's not. But, clearly, Apple has done the analysis, and has figured that they can make better products and more money going the M1 route.

I get that you're super-extra-gung-ho about being pro-Intel, but seriously? Are you really making the argument that Apple is taking a loss just for bragging rights on their own chip? That it's a bad idea to have a powerful, efficient chip for themselves?

You sound like you're engaging in the kind of spin that the oil companies and big tobacco have done in the past when trying to claim their products weren't harmful.

Hell, given its performance and efficiency, I'd like to see this chip (and the requisite motheboards) available the way Intel and AMD chips are available for DIY PC builders.
 

King_V

Judicious
Ambassador
Yeah, you said "might" with a heavy emphasis with the rest of your argument implying "but more likely not" or "only for the time being."

And don't deny that the crux of your argument is that they'd be better off sticking with Intel. Because if that WASN'T what you're trying to say, then you need to do some serious editing work.
 

ezst036

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Intel and amd should be scared of what Apple managed to accomplish in such a short time....
How...... short of a time do you think?

The M1 is based on the A series isn't it?
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-deep-dive

The first A processor was the A4, which was produced circa 2010. Apple has super deep pockets and can throw "billions" "at this problem", they even hired Jim Keller to work on their ARM processors - when I think of something that has happened in a short period of time, I think of the developers who reverse engineered the M1 enough to get Linux running on it. Without billions to "throw at the problem".

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/linux-finally-runs-on-apple-m1-mac-natively

Apple's processors are fast to be sure. But it's basically a decade in the making.
 
Yeah, you said "might" with a heavy emphasis with the rest of your argument implying "but more likely not" or "only for the time being."

And don't deny that the crux of your argument is that they'd be better off sticking with Intel. Because if that WASN'T what you're trying to say, then you need to do some serious editing work.
Mb007 said " they have now 100% sovereignty over its system. " and my point was to point out that they do not, they rely on 3rd parties and they rely on them staying stable. If the FAB can't produce due to supply restrains or if ARM changes prices or if anything does anything there is nothing that apple can do.
It's completely the same as with intel and with an additional middle man, except that apple can design the CPU anyway they like which is the only but also huge pro for apple.
 
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We know from the past that Intel is not below giving their chips away below cost or free, they did that for years to keep AMD out of the mobile market and is why they stopped reporting mobile as their own segment in their earnings. I can completely see Apple releasing a line of Intel based desktop machines with Intel processors if it means higher profit margins.
True but in Apples case they don't need short term cash as they are sitting on a pile of it. Realistically the only way this ever happens if Intel gets so far ahead of Apple that Apple has no choice. I honestly do not see this happening especially in the lower power segments.
 
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Mb007 said " they have now 100% sovereignty over its system. " and my point was to point out that they do not, they rely on 3rd parties and they rely on them staying stable. If the FAB can't produce due to supply restrains or if ARM changes prices or if anything does anything there is nothing that apple can do.
It's completely the same as with intel and with an additional middle man, except that apple can design the CPU anyway they like which is the only but also huge pro for apple.
  1. Apple has a long term(maybe lifetime) architecture ARM license. They don't have to pay ARM again unless they want the new ARM designs that are not architecture related.
  2. Apple is first priority for TSMC as they make them the most money and its not even close.
 
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hotaru251

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Intel and amd should be scared of what Apple managed to accomplish in such a short time
It is a good chip, yes, but its still only good in single core.
Moment anything takes advantage of multicore it is demolished.

50 years for intel vs 10 years for Apple... yes that's short.
dude....
you are pulling out your behind.

intel was a pioneer (90% of the old stuff is irrelevant in todays chips)

and you seem to forget apple didnt "just" make M1 their 1st chip.
Apple use to make their own back in day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_silicon

apple silicon isnt new they didnt go into M1 blind.

We have still only seem M1 in low power usages (not seen a proper workstation nor HEDT as again they get murdered in multicore) there is no proof for or against it scaling well.

nor has anyone compared intel's hybrid chips vs M1.

will they improve? sure. Will they be unmatched? nobody can say.
 
Sep 2, 2021
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Mb007 said " they have now 100% sovereignty over its system. " and my point was to point out that they do not, they rely on 3rd parties and they rely on them staying stable.
Let me complete the square for ya. They have 100% sovereighty over the most important functions of their electronic ecosphere, especially those that do not have as much competition as others parts of a computer. Most others parts are very easily replaced by other components from a different vendor. Thus I dont really think that apple is sheding any tears over Intels cpus. I am sure they were heavily discussing at the beginning what to do, but once the step was accomplished i highly believe they were very pleased with the result and a return to old patterns are unlikely. They would have to fall behind Intel pretty hard, or vice versa Intel would have to overfly Apple by far for this to happen.
 
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g-unit1111

Titan
Moderator
Well there's two things I see wrong here.

1. Apple has that new M1 chip which also contains the entire operating system. Until Intel can deliver that promise, I don't see that happening.

2. Even on mobile platforms the Ryzen 4th gen and 5th gen CPUs run circles around the Intel i7-11xxx CPUs. There's no reason to even consider them currently unless that's all your manufacturer provides.
 
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bigdragon

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Vertical integration is the way to go to control costs and maximize profits. It was just as true for Standard Oil as it is true today for Amazon. Apple knows this. I would be surprised if they aren't calculating the impact of building their own fabs and bringing chip production in-house too. Intel is purely dreaming here.

Intel will have to wait for a few CEO changes at Apple before they'll get their next shot. Growing companies don't normally spin off large portions of their business until financial trouble hits.
 

zodiacfml

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Feel sad for this guy, fixing all the greed and inability of the previous management. However, to be able accomplish this in the future, Intel will have to beat AMD which already has experience on on-chip RAM and huge integrated graphics.
 
Sep 22, 2021
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The funny thing about bosses is that they are all self-centered and they are sure that they are the ones who create everything. That they made it on their own without the help of others. In short, they are Gods.
As we can see nothing changes. Already in ancient times there was this kind of human and they will exist as long as the human species lives.

But that's not all. The People believe them and worship them as Gods.
It's no surprise to hear bosses say: me, me, me with every sentence.

But they do nothing except give orders and accumulate the wealth that their employees give them.

Instead of wanting the "return" of Apple, a smarter person with billions at their disposal would instead organize themselves to conquer the smartphone market.
Market which represents at least 4 billion consumers.

Ironically, we have the same “no thought” at Microsoft.

It seems that many bosses are very smart and can't count.
4 billion is still more than 100-500 million!
 

ottonis

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Jun 10, 2020
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Intel first needs to deliver a product that will actually outpace Apple Silicon new M1 pro/Max APUs in terms of absolute performance and efficiency.
Due to its extremely poor execution in the last decade, nobody can trust Intel to regain the performance and efficiency crown based just on their word.
 
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Mar 20, 2021
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Another element is that the Apple Silicon doesn't necessarily have to beat Intel on IPC, but mostly deliver on performance per watt. Also, a lot of ARM silicon has special accelerators, which can offset a weaker CPU by quite a bit. For example, H.264 playback can be made in an official Apple SDK. When the H.264 accelerator chip doesn't make a difference anymore, they can just update the part in the OS for that functionality
 
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blppt

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There is no chance of this happening. Even if Intel was to significantly beat M1/M1Pro/M1(whatever) in performance per watt, Apple loves the idea of controlling nearly every element of every Mac. Secondly, can you imagine the disaster of having to go back AGAIN to x86 right after you announced the switch to ARM?

I'm sure this little idea sounds good to his shareholders, but even Gelsinger knows this aint happening. Heck, right now Intel should be pooling their efforts into trying to get something on par with Zen 3, never mind beating Apple at their game.
 
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waltc3

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Intel needs to worry about AMD far more than Apple. I don't think Apple will ever revert to Intel...what this is, is clever marketing by Intel designed to hurt Apple--after all, how many Apple fans out there are up for another Apple CPU transition?...;) That's what Gelsinger's remarks are all about. Planting a seed. And you have to admit that it is a thought that has merit when it comes to Apple. Apple needs to stick with its own CPUs from now on or no one will have any confidence in the company's computer products--that's rare enough for Apple as it is.
 
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