Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling

the insignificant reference you can find in the bottom of HL2 back
cover to "internet required" is totally insuficient to describe what
$team is and does and requires, so this move Germany made is very
welcome

but also Germany makes reference to shifts in the traditional way
of selling games that also have to be addressed, like not being able
to sell it in the 2nd hand market or the fee you must pay valve to
change cd-key ownership
Germany looked at much more than the simple "internet required" but
to the brother picture of that $team is trying to do

we now hope every country in the world will follow Germany path and
much more investigation will be made to valve and $team, cause we
won a battle but not the war! we must go on and continue fighting
cause it ain't over yet

links follow about the news

Is the Half-Life 2 EULA illegal?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105

The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
(in german)
http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
(german translated)
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_en

ps: a big thanks to olddog that first post this great breaking news

--
test
 
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Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
> distributor). How can you get those two confused?

And do you have any comment to make on the article itself? (Other than
the Altavista translation is a ah heck to read? "Necessityness"!)

I think it's a fair claim - the retail box should say clearly that the
game requires online registration for all modes of play, including
single-player, because this is a new concept and the public won't
necessarily be aware of it.

For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
because people need to be aware of the important differences it
introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:
>
> >For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
> >because people need to be aware of the important differences it
> >introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
>
> Why?
> The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
> anything.

The enforceability of EULAs is unknown until a court rules on it. And
so far, courts have treated each case on its own merits, so there is no
definitive answer as to whether they are enforceable or not. Arguably,
you have "digitally signed" or knowingly indicated your agreement when
you installed the game. Whether or not it is enforceable, or is just a
readme, it claims some authority in how you use the product, and
therefore should be accessible to the user.
 
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:57:57 +0000, sayNO2steam
<sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
*plonk*
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
 
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sayNO2steam wrote:

<snip>
> Is the Half-Life 2 EULA illegal?
> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105
>
> The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
> (in german)
> http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
> (german translated)
> http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_en

I thought the point was the EULA was only in English? It also sounds
like the box just has to say the game is transferable only if you sell
your user account back....

When does the Gothic 2 expansion hit American shores...that is the
question ;-)
 
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sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:

> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
distributor). How can you get those two confused?
 
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"sayNO2steam" wrote

> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
> Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
> the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
> labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling
>
So instead of forcing the shops to follow the consumer rights which in many
countries forces the shop a money back garantie if the sold item is
deffective
The go for the publisher ?

The inquirer describes that you can deliver back the game and get your money
back whether the package is broken or not - this is also the case in DK -
and probably other countries

An action like this will probably be the most effective above all

Just my two cents

- Peter
 
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"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:193m011cfu8msdq2sq5iv2lq28fu6k4oia@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:57:57 +0000, sayNO2steam
> <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>
> Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
> you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
> *plonk*

What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
interesting information in those links.
 
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"Jim Vieira" <whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote in message
news:Z6HOd.15226$0h5.14299@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> > >Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
> > Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
> > you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
> > *plonk*
> What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
> centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
> made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
> interesting information in those links.

The Steam fanatics will grab hold of the smallest detail in order to derail
criticism of their beloved Steam. Valve can do absolutely no wrong, you see.

Yes Vivendi is the publisher but VALVE is the one that made these draconian
rules regarding selling Steam-infected games. Can't sell the game without
paying $10 to Valve? They deserve a lawsuit for that one alone.
 
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:58:01 GMT, "Jim Vieira"
<whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote:

>What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
>centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
>made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
>interesting information in those links.

It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
facts he is and should just STFU.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
 
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"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:0gfm01trtm6ia3d0938v4hn8g3lifjtcrh@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:58:01 GMT, "Jim Vieira"
> <whiplashr@wi.rr.com.remove.this.to.reply> wrote:
>
>>What's with you guys. This is a trivial mistake, it was not at the
>>centerpiece of the post as to whether it was valve, or VU, which
>>made the change. It's just nitpicking a sub-detail. It was actually
>>interesting information in those links.
>
> It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
> statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
> Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
> facts he is and should just STFU.
> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Valve publish it through Steam.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
>because people need to be aware of the important differences it
>introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.

Why?
The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
anything.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 06:55:53 -0500, "HockeyTownUSA"
<magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote:

>Valve publish it through Steam.

a) They sell and distribute it through Steam.
b) There isn't a box to change the wording on.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>> Why?
>> The EULA is only a readme. It is NOT a contract, as you don't sign
>> anything.
>
>The enforceability of EULAs is unknown until a court rules on it. And
>so far, courts have treated each case on its own merits, so there is no
>definitive answer as to whether they are enforceable or not.

True, there is room for doubt, and the software industry has been
lobbying HARD for several years to get shrinkwrap-licenses/EULA's
accepted.
 
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sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:

> The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
> (in german)
> http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
> (german translated)
> http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%
> 2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_e
> n

Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that publishers
will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting information like
this on any new games in that category

Gandalf Parker
 
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HockeyTownUSA wrote:
>
>
> Valve publish it through Steam.
>
>

Which doesn't come in a box ...
 
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:31:29 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
wrote:


>Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
>you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
>*plonk*

Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:00:36 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
wrote:


>It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
>statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
>Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
>facts he is and should just STFU.

Vivendi didn't foist Steam upon us dork, Valve did.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Gandalf Parker wrote:
> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:
>
>
>>The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
>>(in german)
>>http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
>>(german translated)
>>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%
>>2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_e
>>n
>
>
> Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that publishers
> will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting information like
> this on any new games in that category

Not only that. The Consumer Protection Association explicitly demands
that Vivendi and Valve change the setup of their games so that the game,
and the steam account, can be sold to a third party without any penalty.
I don't know if they will be successful, but they have a lot of clout
here in Germany. IIRC, this is the first time this organization has
become active on the video sector. A very good sign.

Werner







>
> Gandalf Parker
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> Spake Unto All:

>> It is not a trivial mistake. DiFool has been making libelous
>> statements against Valve for over two months now, and not knowing that
>> Valve don't publish the game just shows how truly ignorant of the
>> facts he is and should just STFU.

>Valve publish it through Steam.

In retail boxes? Those sneaky bastards!
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

In <110mvi6blcg9gaf@news.supernews.com> "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> writes:


>The Steam fanatics will grab hold of the smallest detail in order to derail
>criticism of their beloved Steam. Valve can do absolutely no wrong, you see.

>Yes Vivendi is the publisher but VALVE is the one that made these draconian
>rules regarding selling Steam-infected games. Can't sell the game without
>paying $10 to Valve? They deserve a lawsuit for that one alone.


I'm pretty sure they don't need a lawsuit as sales for their steam
next game will surely drop. I know lots of people who won't buy any
steam game again (me included). Once bitten ,twice shy.

--
Henrik Schmidt Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel
Institut fuer Informatik +49 (431) 880 75 - 50 Fax or 43 Phone
Olshausenstr. 40 http://www.ks.informatik.uni-kiel.de
24098 Kiel, Germany email: hbs@ks.informatik.uni-kiel.de
 
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Werner Arend <nefar@arcor.de> wrote in
news:cufqd8$q7f$1@news1.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de:

> Gandalf Parker wrote:
>> sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com:
>>
>>
>>>The consumer protection takes care of the Half Life 2 case
>>>(in german)
>>>http://www.hardtecs4u.com/?id=1107046955,31360,ht4u.php
>>>(german translated)
>>>http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A
>>>%
>>>2F%2Fwww.hardtecs4u.com%2F%3Fid%3D1107046955%2C31360%2Cht4u.php&lp=de_
>>>e n
>>
>>
>> Excellent move for Germany. Well worth noticing. Im sure that
>> publishers will save themselves some hassle ahead of time by putting
>> information like this on any new games in that category
>
> Not only that. The Consumer Protection Association explicitly demands
> that Vivendi and Valve change the setup of their games so that the
> game, and the steam account, can be sold to a third party without any
> penalty. I don't know if they will be successful, but they have a lot
> of clout here in Germany. IIRC, this is the first time this
> organization has become active on the video sector. A very good sign.

Im not sure if that will go over. The game yes, in fact I think that has
already been fought a few times. But there are many non-computer accounts
which cannot be resold so I think the legal system will look to those as
a precedent.

In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
them.

Gandalf Parker
 
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sayNO2steam wrote:

> $team

Why are you spelling Steam like that? How do Valve make money off Steam
in a way that annoys you? Electronic distribution is an option that some
wish to take and has nothing at all to do with authentication or
wharever silly thing you are all upset about.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (More info?)

In article <Xns95F95C1BAA41Bgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>, Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:

>In the US it will fall against the same wall that all of it has. You buy
>the media but not what is on it. What you can and cannot do with a CD,
>tape, book, recording, music, whatever is pretty much the same for all of
>them.

That is absolutely correct.

What then does the consumer "own" with a media-less distribution? What
guarantees or rights does she possess?
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic,alt.games.half-life (More info?)

Chadwick wrote:
> Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
>
>>sayNO2steam <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>>
>>How? It's not Valve that make the boxes, but VU Games (the
>>distributor). How can you get those two confused?
>
>
> And do you have any comment to make on the article itself? (Other than
> the Altavista translation is a ah heck to read? "Necessityness"!)
>
> I think it's a fair claim - the retail box should say clearly that the
> game requires online registration for all modes of play, including
> single-player, because this is a new concept and the public won't
> necessarily be aware of it.
>
> For the same reason, the EULA should be in a choice of languages
> because people need to be aware of the important differences it
> introduces. And that one is Valve's concern.
>

Agreed on one point Chadwick. Vivendi's box should be clearer that
online authentication is required for single player (and Valve should
relent if they instructed Vivendi on the wording). They should perhaps
also consider giving an idea of how long this might take on 56k dial up
(as many download sites currently do with other files) and warn that
this could be considerably longer when patches also need to be
downloaded. Haven't read the rest - never sell a game - never buy
second hand. No probs whatsoever with Steam. Will buy future Steam games.

--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"

Bertrand Russell
 
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