This is my last reply to you. Every issue with your rant can be summed up in your problem of arguing opinions as facts, trying to mislead what I actual said, and not knowing the difference between debating the argument and attacking the person.
gggplaya :
RedJaron :
gggplaya :
Wow, i don't need to prove it or even look up the actual numbers.
If you're going to debate someone, you might want to rethink that. If you want to argue a point, you need to be able and willing to back it up with supporting data.
Here you go, first link on google.
Try again. This particular request for citation was in regard to you asserting tiles are boring as though it was fact rather than opinion. I'm still waiting for your proof to qualify this.
gggplaya :
Windows phone 7 launched in 2010 and never took off at all. The tile UI was simply boring, no one wants all their icons to look the same. ... And again, i originally stated the Tile UI was boring, that's why it was never adopted.
Your "argument" boils down to "WP7 had tiles. WP7 launched and WP market share went down. Therefore tiles was the cause of WP losing market share." I suggest you look up the phrase "correlation does not imply causation."
gggplaya :
You continue to ask me to back up that claim, yet you offer no evidence to support the opposite???
Well yes, you continue to argue your own opinions as though they are facts. So yes, I'm going to ask you to back up those claims with actual facts and data. And once again, it's your responsibility to prove yourself right, not my responsibility to prove you wrong. I don't question the actual market share numbers. I question your provided "fact" as to
why they are what they are.
gggplaya :
FACT: Windows Phone never took off. That's undisputable.
Well, "took off" is rather nebulous. You might want to define exactly what you mean by "take off." Otherwise I would have no idea what expectations of such a debate would be.
gggplaya :
My thoery for why: Tile UI is boring, no one likes it.
Here, you finally admit it. Not a fact. Not a truth. Your
theory. Your opinion. Stop trying to present this as if it was fact. If you're going to try to prove it correct, you're going to need a lot more research and supporting numbers than what you have ( preferably a huge, comprehensive survey of phone buyers who had the means and opportunity to buy Android, iPhone, WP, BB, and any other phone and said the number one reasons they went with Android over WP was because they didn't like tiles ).
gggplaya :
Your Theory for why: Android phones are cheap, so people bought them like rabbits making more rabbits.
Actually no, I haven't presented or argued any theory on this. Yes, I did mention the fact that a large percentage of Android ownership numbers come from non-flagship phones. You'll be hard-pressed to show I meant that in any kind of persuasive manner ( simply, because I didn't ) since I didn't word it as "Because of this," or "This is what really happened instead." I believe the perception that Windows Phone lacks phone applications is a much larger factor in WP's smaller market share.
gggplaya :
Your response: cut me down as much as you can with no actual response....Still waiting....
That is false. Please show me where I have cut you down. Where have I mocked, insulted, or belittled you in any way? I haven't. Perhaps it would do you well to understand the difference between attacking the person and attacking the argument.
gggplaya :
RedJaron :
gggplaya :
Provide a chart that proves otherwise. I'd like to see it.
Once again, it is your job to support your claims, not others' jobs to prove you wrong.
I did support my claim by asserting the WP marketshare was miniscule, which is common knowledge. You continue to say otherwise, that's why i asked you for a chart to prove otherwise. I don't understand why it's my job to prove myself wrong????????? And again, you don't back any of your claims.
I really have no idea what's causing your confusion. My only mention at all about market share was in relation to flagship phones. I've never said anything about how big or small WP's market share is. I would ask you to prove this accusation or take it back. I have made very few claims at all, so I don't have anything I need to back up. The majority of my interaction here has been calling your arguments into question and correcting you when you say misleading things about me.
You stated "tiles are boring" as though it was fact. I asked you to provide empirical evidence supporting that claim. You countered with a non-sequitur about market share and asked me for a chart to prove it wrong. Not only is it not my job to prove you wrong, you still haven't haven't bothered to back up your "fact" that tiles are boring.
gggplaya :
Nope, you did insert verbage as if i implied some things i didn't say. Then argued against them.
I took what you wrote and made observations about how it sounded. I replied to them with how I was reading it and how it wouldn't be unreasonable to interpret it. Note, it was always phrased in a question of "are you trying to mean this?" I made one mistake by writing "you're suggesting" when I should have written "your words suggest."
gggplaya :
RedJaron :
gggplaya :
Obviously, that market speaks as well. They don't like windows phones, tiles are boring.
Uh huh, right, it's only because of the tiles. It couldn't possibly be due to any other reason.
What reason would that be???
Ahh, now you're actually getting somewhere. As I said before, I think the lack of apps perception is a big thing. That seems to be the first thing mentioned in any review. I know a lot of people first-hand who won't consider a WP at all because it didn't/doesn't have Pinterest or Instagram. There's also a big stigma against WP as being uncool due to very successful Apple and Google marketing campaigns. Apple also has a nice lead in music on their phones. But by all means, go on and keep believing that the only, or at least biggest, reason they don't sell as much is because of tiles.
gggplaya :
Useful from google dictionary: "able to be used for a practical purpose or in several ways"
Merriam-Webster - 1: capable of being put to use; especially : serviceable for an end or purpose. 2: of a valuable or productive kind. Note the complete lack of the word "practical." That definition has to do with something that's actually feasible or reasonable to do, not just that it's possible. Let's put this another way. Both garden shears and a lawnmower are useful in cutting grass, however the lawnmower is actually practical for cutting all the grass in a yard.
gggplaya :
You're sidestepping the point and now just arguing semantics.
Semantics? Not really. Even if you want to conflate "useful" and "practical", you're the one saying I picked an argument over efficiency, which I never did.
gggplaya :
I for a fact, never said people didn't like efficiency, practicality, usefulness. Never said that....
Actually you did. And I quote "
If people liked those qualities, we'd all be driving around in toyota prius's." Now, I don't actually think you meant exactly what you typed. I think you meant people don't always value those qualities over everything else. I've said all this before. That is why I suggested to you that you think about rewording it.
gggplaya :
Probably a big part of why people subconsciously don't like it.
And you're back to blanket statements and treating opinion as fact.
gggplaya :
Again, stop implying. I never meant a UI could be quantified or measured. As stated, i believe tiles suck.
Actually, this is the first time you have stated this as an opinion rather than as if it were a fact. You argued it as fact. Facts are empirical, measurable, and provable. Ergo, you were treating something subjective as though it were empirical.
gggplaya :
I never said widgets were "SUPERIOR". You talked about an extra function of tiles, i only said your point was moot because a widget could do that too.
Actually, you brought up widgets in your first post when you called tiles idiotic compared to icons and widgets that had been on desktops for years. So, if you call Thing A idiotic, or inferior, compared to Thing B, you're trying to say that you're not calling Thing B superior to Thing A?
gggplaya :
I did say tiles were boring, and they are.
More opinion as though it were fact. Prove it.
gggplaya :
No one wants all your icons to have the same look.
Again, prove it. Not only that, but you're flat out wrong to suggest that every tile looks like every other tile. My phone tile has a silhouette of a telephone receiver, my email tile has an image of an envelope, my contacts tile has a stick-figure outline on it, my Office tile has the MS Office logo on it, my weather tile constantly changes to reflect current atmospheric conditions and flips over to show the forecast, and my map tile has a compass icon on it. I'm not sure how you can possibly think they all look the same.
gggplaya :
Icons and widgets are not boring because each one is totally unique, not something inserted into a box.
Again, please prove your assertion that icons and widgets are not boring. Personally I think a single, static icon that never changes could easily be viewed as boring. And to repeat the last paragraph, it's untrue to suggest that each tile does not or cannot look totally unique.
gggplaya :
Please stop the mindset of extremes(if you're not for us, then your against us type of thinking).
Actually I'm not. I'm just against the type of people who push the lie that their opinions are facts. Just because i say something about one side, doesn't mean i'm implying the opposite to the other side.
gggplaya :
it doesn't mean i think android and iOS are superior.
I'm curious to know how you say you prefer Android but you don't think it's superior to alternatives.
As I said, 90% of this simply comes down to you not appreciating the difference between "this thing sucks" and "I believe/think this thing sucks." The problem derived from that is the false assumption that just because you believe something, everyone else ( or at least the majority ) does as well. This is a technology forum, and of course a lot of opinions are going to come around. That's fine. Welcome, even. Everyone has different needs so not ever piece of tech is going to be suitable for every person. Just because you don't see the point of somethign doesn't mean someone else doesn't love it. Intelligence is to be gained in debating the merits of one idea against another. Just be prepared to properly defend your ideas even as others should back up their own. However, we like to draw the line at people arguing their opinion as if it was empirical truth. If you don't understand that difference, then either your English teacher failed you or you didn't pay attention in class.