GF4vsKyro2

HeavyMetal

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i noticed that on the anandtech review of the geforce4 it said
"If the pixel isn't viewable and will be overwritten (or overdrawn) by another pixel, then the pixel isn't rendered and memory bandwidth is saved. This addresses the problem known as overdraw and in the NV25's architecture the performance of the Z-occlusion culling algorithms have been improved tremendously."
the Geforce 4 had 118 fps in villagemark with a 2000+axp
my 600Mhz p3 & kyro 2 combo gets 98fps on average with a minimum of 75 and a high of 120, but when i loop it i usually get anywheres between 95-105 fps. my question is how efficient can the geforce 4 really be?
 

HeavyMetal

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btw im running windows xp and i believe the kyro 2 takes a big hit from running xp, im not exactly sure how big though b/c i never benched it when i had win98
 

somerandomguy

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The GeForce 4 isn't as efficient as the Kryo II, but it's so much more powerful that it's really no contest.
On of the problems with the Kryo II architecture is that it’s extremely hard to implement a fixed function T&L engine, let alone pixel and vertex shaders.

"Ignorance is bliss, but I tend to get screwed over."
 

HeavyMetal

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but the kyro 3 is rumored to have a T&L engine and complete DX8 support...of course thats only a rumor and can only be taken by a grain of salt
 

HeavyMetal

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check out hardocp and u will see this:

Firstly, I want to thank you for your support of, and contributions to making Hercules the success it has been and will continue to be. In response to STMicroelectronics' recent announcement to divest its graphics chipset manufacturing interests, we wanted to assure you that Hercules remains strong and committed to bringing you only the best in graphics technology.

Hercules 4000 and 4500 series cards will continue to be available to you and your customers as we have secured ample inventory to fulfill everyone's needs. For the future, we will work with selected vendors in developing and marketing advanced, quality Hercules branded products.

Our commitment to offering the very best support to our customers, and your customers remains a priority by providing updated drivers, installation, configuration and field application support, as well as phone and online support personnel.

Finally, in the coming months we will aggressively move to position our 4000 and 4500 series cards as industry leaders, and reinforce that with the addition of the much anticipated 3D Prophet 4800, thus ensuring the longevity of our '4' series products.
 

marneus

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What is the 4800, is this juat an overclocked version of the Kyro2, any info kicking about on this 4800 ??

---If at first you dont succeed... get a bigger hammer... that'll teach it !!!---
 
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Guest

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There are no "hard facts" about the 4800, but I'll tell you what I know so far.

The Hercules 3D Prophet 4800 Kyro II Ultra has been popping up over the last month on several German online shop websites, one in particular is <A HREF="http://www.funcomputer.de/default.php?page=shop&kat1=6&kat2=43&NOID=ab1e1564df3f4650b180f2d18452fe31&NOID=d94a25bf99878c127e58936bbcc288a9&PHPSESSID=75ac57a8d625b68c7adcb5b6d3edc9c0" target="_new">FunComputer.de</A>

A box picture has also appeared, but it is not known if this is genuine or a fake. What this box says on the front is that it is AGP 4X/2X and has an "enhanced T&L engine" There has been a lot of debate about this T&L engine on the PowerVR related message boards, some suggesting that it is just an update to the drivers for enhanced software T&L, some suggest that it may be a hardware add-on chip much like ImgTec have done with their arcade machines, a few live in hope that it is a genuine H/W T&L.

It is a Kyro II chip, with a rumoured core/memory speed of between 200/200 and 225/225.

Someone states that he has raid a Hercules PR that says it will launch at CeBIT this year (13-30th March).

One more thing about it, If the box picture is true, it also has a picture of the card itself on which it is possible to make out the TV-Out chip as being the new FOCUS chip, which is supposed to provide unrivalled TV picture quality, there is a press release about this FOCUS chip on the PowerVR website I believe, its certainly knocking about the web.

Whether any of this information is correct, I cannot say, it is all rumour and all groups invovled with Kyro, seem pretty tight-lipped about it all....I just live in hope.

I want to replace my TNT card with a decent budget card this year, but I am holding off to see if the new Kyro's come out, and how they perform and are priced against the updated NVidia range, and I DONT want to have to wait much longer!!

HTH

Topher Bear


Topher Bear

All advice I offer is free! What is the value of free advice?
 

phsstpok

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from the <A HREF="http://us.st.com/stonline/index.shtml" target="_new">STMicroelectronics site</A>...

<i>Geneva, February 8, 2002 - STMicroelectronics (NYSE: STM) has announced that it is withdrawing from the PC Graphics Accelerator IC market and is currently seeking a buyer for the related assets and activities of its PC Graphics business, which accounted for approximately $15 million of ST's $6.36 billion revenues in 2001.

The potential sale is in line with ST's objective of focusing its R&D efforts on market areas that are strategically important to the Company, notably: communications, automotive, computer peripherals, smart cards and digital consumer. In the digital consumer market, ST will continue to emphasize set-top box, DVD and digital TV applications, in which the Company holds worldwide leadership positions.</i>


<b>We are all beta testers!</b>
 

FatBurger

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Yeah, I posted that last week. Tough loss to the market. Kyro had lots of potential.

<font color=orange>Quarter</font color=orange> <font color=blue>Pounder</font color=blue> <font color=orange>Inside</font color=orange>
 

phsstpok

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Yes, but people keep going on about the next Kyro product this and that. It's not going to happen.

Now I could see possibly that Hercules might buy the Kyro technology assets and continue production or I can see nVidia buying it and shelving the technology but I just don't see the possibility of a Kyro III.

p.s. I wanted to see a Kyro III. The Kyro II had its problems but I am impressed how well it scales with faster processors. A faster model with more features would have been interesting.

<b>We are all beta testers!</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 02/14/02 03:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
G

Guest

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*sighs* (sorry, but this is a common misconception all over the place)

The fact that STM is pulling out of the PC Graphics market, does not mean that Kyro is neccassarily dead.

Let me try and explain the set up.

Imagination Technologies (ImgTec) have a subsidery called PowerVR (pvr) (and also one called Videologic...sound familiar:). PowerVR design the Kyro Chip archetecture (also called PowerVR series 3) and then sell the license to produce this chip to STMicroelecstronics (STM), but continue to develop the drivers themselves. STM design a reference baord around the chip which they fabricate (although I've been getting the inklin lately that STM don't actually fabricate the KyroII chip themselves but have subcontracted to another fabrication plant somewhere in europe..but I'm not sure about that so don't take it as gospel). STM then sell the chips and reference board designs to actual card makers, such as Hercules.

Now STM are giving up their part of the process, and they intend to sell it, as a going concern, that means that for the time being at STM PC graphics dept. it is business as usual, and then it will be up to the purchaser to decide what they do next. SO all ImgTec need to do is find another company to produce their chips for them and fill STM's shoes, comapnies like Via may be the sort they are looking for, not companies like Nvidia who don't want to produce chips for a competitor!!

STM also have a license to produce PowerVR series 4 and Series 5 chips (the much talked about Kyro III and ?????), therefore if they do sell the business, the new company will also buy these licenses and the Kyro III will see the light of day, maybe a little late and therefore at a cheaper price aiming at the mainstream market not the high end.

If STM cannot find a buyer and they close down the group, then that will signal a real problem for ImgTec and Kyro. but both Hercules and Videologic have both recently publicly stated that they are committed to the Kyro deisgns.

There is a body of opinion out there that reckons the loss of STM is a good thing for Kyro, becuase STM really didn't seem to have the drive neccassary for the Graphics card market and a potential buyer will certainly want it to go places...we shall see.

Topher Bear

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knowan

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Hmm, a Via purchase might be interesting. Not necessarly good, just interesting. I can imagine a Via purchase and then incorporating it into their southbridges. Of course they'll hopefully still have to liscence the chip itself to Hercules et. al. to produce AGP cards. Knowing Via though, they'll likely find a way to fvck it up.

Maybe this is the real reason why Hercules recently liscenced with ATI.

--------------
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G

Guest

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That's Funny...
The Graphic section of PowerVR is up for sale. If you have about 15 million you could make your own KYRO III otherwise it might be a very long time coming.

Take it with you, be a MobileGamer :wink:
 

marneus

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Mebbie AMD might buy it instead... they have a bit better track record making chips than VIA I think...

AND they might just have 15mil kicking about...

---If at first you dont succeed... get a bigger hammer... that'll teach it !!!---
 

HeavyMetal

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i wouldnt mind seeing ATI buy it out, if the rumor of T&L support is true on a tile based rendering system then imagine a chip that has a faster core & memory clock than a Geforce 4 and has almost no overdraw. unfortunetly if NVIDIA bought it out they would probably shelf the technology